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    • thread title updated. so a sold debt. who are the solicitors? TM legal? why didn't ovo do this themselves as they do but chose to sell the debt on for 10p=£1? funny debt you state you reived a letter of claim, why did you not reply too it.? also is there is no indication of the date this bill comes from on the claimform? how do you know its from 2022? what other previous paperwork have you received? please scan page 1 of the claimform and bothsides of ALL previous letters upto one mass pdf read upload carefully. .................. pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’. Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time. You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID. You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.  then log in to the bulk court Website https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/466952-lowelloverdales-claimform-old-cap1-debt/?do=findComment&comment=5260464 .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant] ... https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/ type your name ONLY Do Not sign anything .do not ever use or give an email . you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork  you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count] ..............  
    • Thank you again. I'm hoping it will come out in the wash and will endeavour to check my online account. I'm a bit unsettled by not hearing from Booking.com but the host is sounding helpful at the moment. HB
    • I've just remembered that a friend of mine had bookings cancelled on Booking.com about a month ago - and the good news is that all worked out in the wash. I'm at work now but will scribble properly in a couple of hours with the full tale.
    • Thank you Dave. I've had nothing from Booking.com, just a message via the site from the host. I know I need to check my bank account, just trying to resolve some technical issues. HB  
    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business Centre Name of the Claimant ? JC INTERNATIONAL AQUISITION How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self Date of issue – 22 May 2024  Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – 1. The def owes the claimant £300 in respect of gas and electricity charges supplied by OVO. 2. Debt was assigned to the claimant with notice given to the def. 3. Despite formal demand the def has failed to pay the debt and the claimant claims £300 and further claims interest pursuant to s69 of the CCA 1984. What is the total value of the claim? £385 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Energy debt When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Moved home and they were the current energy supplier  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax/Etc...) ? No Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt assigned to JC International Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not sure probably  Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Again can't remember but probably  Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No Why did you cease payments? Changed supplier What was the date of your last payment? Never  Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Adding to the above good advice, make sure that the CCA request you send contains the following sentence:

 

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

 

This is because as Spamheed said above whilst they are allowed to reconstruct to satisfy your CCA request, they need the original, signed document to make the alleged debt enforceable in Court.

 

Just consider the stupidity of their words!

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When I sent off the cca request it took them 2 years to reply and all they sent back were copy statments nothing with a dsignature on it and according to them that is they are legally required to send.

 

hmmm did they state that in writing or verbally.... at the end of the day they could claim the moon is made of cheese... doesnt make it right... does it?

 

S.

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I wrote to cabot and asked for a copy of the default notice and they have written back and said that as they did not issue it they cannot supply a copy. Is this right and what should I do?

 

Well they are correct that they didnt issue it... the creditor usually prints these off in large batches and doesnt normally save them so possibly wont have a copy either.

There is no need for them to actually show you a copy but they will need to convince a judge (IF it EVER gets that far) that you received one before being able to receive monies not due under the cca.

 

S.

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Cabot will tell you any old tosh.

 

They told me they have a legal right to add interest as set out in the agreement, which 4 months earlier they said they couldn't supply. So how do they know what it says in a non existant agreement

Absolute Nawkers

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You need to get all of your ducks in a row so to speak, if they take you to court you need to demonstrate that not only have they "bought" a debt whilst it is under dispute but continue to attempt enforcement whilst they were fully aware of the dispute.

 

Send them the CCA request, repeat your request of DNand any other proof and as soon as (and if) Morgan get involved go straight for the throat with CPR14 and/or 18 to build a clear picture of their behaviours and breaches

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I did send them a cca request and all they have sent back are statements they have provided nothing with a signature on it. They said that they debt must be mine because

 

 

 

I did send them a cca reqest and all they sent back are statements there is nothing with a signature on it. They said that as they have my name and address then the debt must be mine. They have flatly refused to provide anything with a signature on it.

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They are talking rubbish, using the same logic, as I have the queens name and address I can assumer she owes me money?

 

They are obliged to furnish you with the agreement, or even a reproduction (or as they like to call them "representation") for the purposes of s77/78 but either way without any kind of agreement being provided in line with CCA then you have nothing to answer, you are not liable for anything until they prove this and should be telling them so (in writing) this would also be part of building a case, letters telling you lies are admisable as evidence and the whole "you owe us because we say so" claim is an outright lie.

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I did send them a cca request and all they have sent back are statements they have provided nothing with a signature on it. They said that they debt must be mine because

 

 

 

I did send them a cca reqest and all they sent back are statements there is nothing with a signature on it. They said that as they have my name and address then the debt must be mine. They have flatly refused to provide anything with a signature on it.

 

standard spiel from them i'm afraid... fact is if they were to take you to court the outstanding s78 request would be a big difficulty for them to overcome :-)

 

S.

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They provided me with a completely useless reconstructed agreement, its so flawed its laughable..however they continue to add interest and the debt is getting bigger and bigger, they are a law unto themselves, i've not heard from them since they said they would go back to original company to get an actual copy of my CCA (which the other company couldn't provide in the first place, only ever received an application form) but as I said, the continue to pile on the interest :(

 

Good luck :)

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I am in more or less the same boat, over 4k in interest added, illegible application form.

No replies to any letters.

Didn't even bother to ask the OC for a copy of the agreement.

No annual statements

No sign of any court actions, just threat after threat that it will happen.

Getting nowwhere with the own letterheads so started to burn me with Fire.

That didn't work so got Clarity to do their dirty work now.

They are as you say ' a law unto themselves'

 

What they think inflating the debt is going to do if they take no legal action I don't know.

The more they increase it, the less chance there is of any one paying it on principle.

Maybe it makes there accounts look better.

 

They are just a total nightmare to get any sense out of. "we can do this because we said so" that all you get out of them.

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They provided me with a completely useless reconstructed agreement, its so flawed its laughable..however they continue to add interest and the debt is getting bigger and bigger, they are a law unto themselves, i've not heard from them since they said they would go back to original company to get an actual copy of my CCA (which the other company couldn't provide in the first place, only ever received an application form) but as I said, the continue to pile on the interest :(

 

Good luck :)

 

If they have replied to your s78 request with a reconstructed agreement and it conforms to carey vs HSBC then they are not restricted from obtaining judgement if they take you to court... however they need to convince a judge of the agreement, only caveat to that is some judges dont take much convincing.

 

S.

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If they have replied to your s78 request with a reconstructed agreement and it conforms to carey vs HSBC then they are not restricted from obtaining judgement if they take you to court... however they need to convince a judge of the agreement, only caveat to that is some judges dont take much convincing.

 

S.

 

I would suggest everyone in this position reads Carey very carefully and understands that a reconstructed agreement can only be used to satisfy a s77/78 request and can not be used in court.

 

There are some DCAs who have presented reconstructions in court and even convinced the judge that it was acceptable even though it isn't and because the LIP hadn't read up on Carey they lost

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I would suggest everyone in this position reads Carey very carefully and understands that a reconstructed agreement can only be used to satisfy a s77/78 request and can not be used in court.

 

There are some DCAs who have presented reconstructions in court and even convinced the judge that it was acceptable even though it isn't and because the LIP hadn't read up on Carey they lost

 

Even some who have read up on Carey have lost... if a judge decides day is night or night is day its appealable but at a cost.

 

S.

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Even some who have read up on Carey have lost... if a judge decides day is night or night is day its appealable but at a cost.

 

S.

 

This is unfortunately very true and falls into the realm of the judge lottery, however as my old dad used to say "forewarned is forearmed" as they say, and if you know what's coming your way, you have a much better chance of defending against it

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This is unfortunately very true and falls into the realm of the judge lottery, however as my old dad used to say "forewarned is forearmed" as they say, and if you know what's coming your way, you have a much better chance of defending against it

 

Indeed SH, you had a very wise dad :-)

 

S.

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If they have replied to your s78 request with a reconstructed agreement and it conforms to carey vs HSBC then they are not restricted from obtaining judgement if they take you to court... however they need to convince a judge of the agreement, only caveat to that is some judges dont take much convincing.

 

S.

 

Ah and there is the $20M question...if it conforms to Carey vs HSBC...I can't say too much because of our "guests" but I am pretty sure it would get laughed out of any court in the land...I haven't read the Carey ruling in full, and must admit what I have read, I don't really understand (being just a simple soul!) so guess I will just have to take my chances in court, if it gets that far....Alf, how long have Cabot held your account for them to have added that much?

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Ah and there is the $20M question...if it conforms to Carey vs HSBC...I can't say too much because of our "guests" but I am pretty sure it would get laughed out of any court in the land...I haven't read the Carey ruling in full, and must admit what I have read, I don't really understand (being just a simple soul!) so guess I will just have to take my chances in court, if it gets that far....Alf, how long have Cabot held your account for them to have added that much?

 

Was sold to Crapbot January 2009

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Ah and there is the $20M question...if it conforms to Carey vs HSBC...I can't say too much because of our "guests" but I am pretty sure it would get laughed out of any court in the land...I haven't read the Carey ruling in full, and must admit what I have read, I don't really understand (being just a simple soul!) so guess I will just have to take my chances in court, if it gets that far....Alf, how long have Cabot held your account for them to have added that much?

 

Ok the basic test is that it must be honest and true... hard for a DCA to be both of these imho as a starting point anyway :-)

 

So it needs to have all the proper prescribed terms and the name and address of the debtor AT the time of taking the agreement out. Also if the card terms have been varied then DJ Waksman stated they need to provide the original also.

 

S.

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My thoughts on Cabot's balance inflation on peoples accounts is this.

 

They buy a debt of 5K from the OC at 20p in the pound (£1000)

Then when you refuse to pay they cock about sending threats for about 2 years adding interest till the balance is about double (10K)

Then they sell it on to some other DCA down the chain for 10p in the pound (£1000)

SO they have lost nothing, if they can get 15p, then they have made a profit without the debtor paying a penny.

 

It would be interesting to know if Cabot add interest to ALL their purchases or is it just the ones they cannot get a payment arragement in place.

 

Who would pay them £10 a month if they are going to put £100 interest on it. Nobody I would expect.

 

Thats my take on it anyway

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