British Gas & Power Flush

[Pere Ubu]

I have started an action in the small claims court for £415 against British Gas for carrying out a power flush when it was not needed it didn't rectify the problem I had with a radiator. Fitting a valve to the system under my service contract did!

[BankFodder]

What is a powr flush? Sound very painful

But anyway, can you let us have the story? And what is the basis of your claim.

Are you only caliming the £450 - or have you added any sum for incobenince, the time you had to wait at home for them etc etc.

 

Maybe we should start a consumer litigation section and you could put your claim details in there

[Pere Ubu]

They flush out the radiators to get sludge out then add an inhibitor (spelling?) to the water system which stops the sludge building up again. This happens when the system is old. Our house is relatively new (1999) and BG said to have a power flush to rectify one radiator that needed frequent bleeding. They said if I didn't have it done then my radiator system would rot from the inside out!! Me a lay person was worried so went for the power flush. Radiator still needed bleeding. BG came out again and fitted a valve to my system under my service contract and that cured the problem! Therefore, no need for power flush. Have been writing to BG for a while. They wrote back once. Said give us 10 days and we will get back to me. They never did so issued a notice before action. No reply so issued claim in county court. BG have since telephoned me twice to ask what they can do to best rectify the problem. Easy pay back the power flush money and court fee. They will get back to me!!

[seylectric]

HOW much??? Get some quotes from a Corgi-registered plumber or three pre-court.

 

The following advice comes from my plumber:

 

"It would have been a damn sight cheaper to replace the radiator than to flush it out. Even a fairly large (5 ft plus) radiator can be bought for under £250 (by the public, trade even cheaper), fitting should take no more than an hour, and that's being generous.

 

They were correct in stating that the radiator system would have rotted from the inside out. This would have taken oh, about 80 years or so."

[bjaudio]

I am currently in dispute with British gas, in a similar vein to your original post.

Basically last September we took up the Homecare plan from BG, which is in effect, an insurance policy against parts and labour for your central heating system.

A failed bolier part in February, and numerous calls by BG engineers, who REFUSED to accept the fault was covered under the Homecare warrenty, led me to have to employ a third party plumber to rectify the problem.

This was only after many calls to the BG 'customer services', who are standing with the engineers diagnosis that sludge, and hard water limescale caused the damage tot he part, and therefore excluding the repair costs from the policy, in their opinion.

As we live in a very low lime, soft water area, and according to the third party plumbers report, no sludge was present in the failed part, I am about to send British Gas his bill, along with a claim for inconvenience etc, and refund of all my payments to the Homecare plan to date.

 

Extremely poor service, 'know it all' engineers, who tried to advise me i needed and sell me a new bolier instead of rectifying the problem, will never ever use these prannets ever again.

[seylectric]

I've heard a few stories about this BG so-called cover plan, I've never met anybody with a successful claim yet. A friend of mine in the next street was also told she needed a new boiler, at a cost of over £1300. I went in at weekend, bled all the radiators and it's working fine now.

[Pere Ubu]

Eversheds acting for BG have written to me today offering full value of claim £465 but they want confidentility as well! Have enclosed a Tomlin Order for me to sign and return. Have asked how much are they prepared to pay for confidentiality.

[Plumberian]

That's the way to do it.

 

Since we may not hear from you if they pay enough for that right

...

 

Just to dot the i's and cross the t's of course,

 

You could NOT post the outcome by a set date and time...

 

I'd love to know the ins and outs. BG are one of my competitors and I know that they do sometimes recommend things that are not needed.

 

I also suspect that every now and then, some unlucky service contract customer gets the engineer that was voted "Least likely to succeed" i

college.

 

Which is fortunate for me and in contrast to the tone of this thread so far, most BG recommendations for a powerflush ARE NEEDED.

 

But I suppose I would say that because many of the customers I get calls from asking for a powerflushing quote are BG service contract customers.

 

And most of my business comes from the internet.

 

And now it's late so I'll stop there.

 

P.S. £465.00 is bloody cheap for BG.

[G1xxerguy]

I'm a Heating Engineer. I think you've been sold a dud. A powerflush could help, as sludge in rads creates gasses, but I'd check for other reasons first as It's an expensive treatment. I'm willing to bet they didn't carry it out properly either. In simple terms, the guy should have spent about 4 hours with you, treating each rad in turn. There would have been some banging of each rad to dislodge sludge. Usually British Gas engineers just plug the equipment in and sit down for 3 hours.

[JokerZero]

We have not long ago been told we need one of these doing, by the nice man from BG

 

How can I tell if its a genuine requirement or not?

[enaid]

I had a big row with BG about this for my father who is in his eighties and pays £350 per year for peace of mind with his central heating system.

Apparently my father had a power flush some 7 years ago, if you read the T&C's it says the first power flush you have to pay for and after that they are free.

After trying to sell my father a new boiler or paying for a second flush I contacted them. It was not easy and I got passed from pillar to post but he had the flush done last week. If by any chance he gets a bill for this I will let you know the outcome

[G1xxerguy]

Look out for the following: A cold zone at the bottom of most rads when the heating is on, probably shaped like a hump (build up of sludge in the rad).

Boiler whines, or bangs slightly, pressure builds past 2bar when boiler is fired up (if you have a gauge). Cold spots on the top of rads is air, just bleed them. A proper flush should involve banging of each rad to help shift the sludge.

[JokerZero]

Thanks - from a quick check I think thats a correct diagnosis - the rads are cold at th bottom in some cases to about 2 thirds up. And for a while the pump would make a noise like a light aircraft so I guess its flush time.

 

British Gas have quoted £666

[G1xxerguy]

£666!!! That's way over the top!! Our company charge abouy £500 and that's expensive. Shop around for about £400, or find someone who'll do a foreigner. I'm doing one this weekend for £250.

[G1xxerguy]

You live anywhere near Telford, J0?

[JokerZero]

sorry no -we live near Fleet off J4A Hampshire

[tinkertailor]

Well, I'm finding out more than I wanted to know about powerflush. We've had 5 Brit Gas visits on the Homecare contract. They changed the pump and all the stats on the Potterton 100 boiler which keeps tripping out on overheat. Yesterday they recommended powerflush and magnaclean for £848. Although, still not a guaranteed fix. Claim I wouldn't pay if it didn't work. I would be prepared to get a powerflush although not at BG prices but as we can get all the rads hot before the boiler trips I don't see how it can be a circulation/debris problem.

Any ideas anybody.

[IdaInFife]

What speed is the pump set at?

 

Most have 1, 2 or 3.

 

Turn it a notch.

 

 

idax

[tinkertailor]

Thanks, I just checked the pump setting and it is on 3, so back to drawing board. Pump outer casing was very hot to the touch so I guess it's working pretty hard even when boiler trips out.

[whereswilbur]

I think some people on here are getting a bit carried away with their 'expertise'! I am a BG engineer, and indeed an engineer who carries out powerflushing on a regular basis (everyday just now!) Ideas like 'just turning your pump up a notch' and 'I bled the radiators and now we dont need a new boiler' are complete rubbish!

 

When a system is drawing air in and needing bled regularly, a powerflush will temporarily cure the problem, however, when we carry this work out we will normally cut & clear system blockages (normally occuring in the cold beed pipe where hot & cold water meets), combine the cold feed & expansion pipes if possible (open vented systems) only if the appliance has an overheat protection device. We will also balance the system and set the correct pump speed. In most cases the pump, and and valves (pump, motorised or manual) will be replaced.

 

Twin entry radiator valves (valves with one valve & 2 pipes) require to be split & replaced with a valve either side of the radiator before a powerflush can be done, as there is a small tube which circulates the water attatched to these which can become dislodged during a flush. If you have had a powerflush but still have twin entry valves, chances are the system hasn't been flushed correctly.

 

We now use a magnaclean filter (a strong magnetic filter) incorporated into our powerflush machines to extract any iron oxide in the radiators & pipework. We can supply & install a permanent magnaclean filter to any system at additional cost.

 

I read that one user reckons 4 hrs is a good time to powerflush a system, BG powerflush (including remedial work to rectify faults) is normally done in around 8 hrs and priced accordingly. Our price includes all parts (irrespective of cost) and labour.

 

The powerflush lifetime guarantee was only introduced in 2004 (I think) but we will do a re-flush if needed as long as the same customer owns the property. Any radiators which corrode badly and leak will be replaced if a powerflush has been carried out. Our average price is around £600, and we use fixed price quotations (subject to region) but if the powerflush is done correctly it IS good value for money when you look at the work we do. Lets see if your £250 flush gets you anywhere near a service like that, I'd think not.

[G1xxerguy]

If this really is the service you personally are carrying out then yes it's good value SHOULD ALL THOSE EXTRAS REQUIRE DOING. If no rads need replacing, if the system is fairly standard, and if the pump is fine, then it looks rather costly. My personal experience of BG powerflushes has involved the guy plumbing in the unit and sitting back with copious cups of tea for 3 -4 hours. I'm sorry to generalise, and I'm sure there are also good responsible engineers amongst BG's crew, but I'm rather cynical towards any firm that demands targets of their engineers that inevitably lead to short cuts.

[whereswilbur]

That is generaly what I do as part of a powerflush, obviously I only carry out remedial work as required, but I will generaly replace the pump & pump valves as part of the job. I always combine cold feed & expansion pipes if possible (on open vented systems) as we try to eliminate the chance of needing a re-flush. Fitting a Magnaclean is the way forward too in my opinion, I recomend any engineers working for themselves to start fitting them!

 

Also, I didnt mean to tar everyone with the same brush, I realise there are some good firms out there who also do give a good service, just watch out what you are getting for your money!

 

P.S. dont all engineers love getting numerous cups of tea? I do!!!

[Coasters]

I've heard a few stories about this BG so-called cover plan, I've never met anybody with a successful claim yet. A friend of mine in the next street was also told she needed a new boiler, at a cost of over £1300. I went in at weekend, bled all the radiators and it's working fine now.

 

I am not one to stick up for the big boys but believe me I have heard of many many claims from customers who have outright lied or stretched the truth to get compo and won. Capatalists lie and people lie its all one big lie in the greater scheme of things. Only thing that changes is that the more money you have the bigger change you have of your lie being believed.

 

Not at all saying that anyone here is lying - just that it goes on, works both ways and they have won. Probably what is going on is that the people who are genuine get nothing and BG suck up to the wrong people.

 

But yes, BG do pay out.

 

One example, one person called out Dyno-Rod who work on behalf of BG to fix a toilet at 2.30am, the Dyno-Rod engineer cut himself on part of the toilet which was in a bad state of neglet. The customer wanted compensation because the Dyno-Rod engineer spilt a little blood on the carpet. They got a bathroom re-fit.

 

Some people..

 

I have started an action in the small claims court for £415 against British Gas for carrying out a power flush when it was not needed it didn't rectify the problem I had with a radiator. Fitting a valve to the system under my service contract did!

 

Why didnt they perform the first 'fix' as per contract? Was this part of their home care agreement, if so they shouldnt have charged anything or a vastly reduced sum if you are on the budget plan.

[Trundles Trick]

As an ex British gas trained engineer with 30 years experience (not one who has carried out a power flush on their behalf) I can safely confirm that BG have been carrying out this little number on customers for years.

 

In addition to their gentle persusion to loyal customers to renew perfectly good boilers that may be older than a certain age, the power flush option must be one of their other best earners.

 

I have managed to persuade a number of friends who have come to me in a blind panic after their annual Gas Board service revealed that a £500+ powerflush might be a good idea, that it was not necessary.

 

And lo and behold the systems are all still working fine after some years, a couple took up my suggestion of fitting a Magnaclean and none have renewed their contracts since the helpful advice from the BG servicing engineers almost cost them a fortune.

 

The BG Powerflush runaway train is generally laughed at by the rest of us within the industry.

 

 

 

Beware British Gas man who speak with forked tongue!!

[tinkertailor]

Well British Gas have finally come up trumps. I resisted the offer of a powerflush and a new engineer was sent. He agreed with a previous diagnosis of flow and return to the boiler being plumbed in the wrong way round. He drained the system, re-plumbed it in about an hour, fired it up and it's been working nicely all day.

Amazingly the system had worked for 5 years being plumbed wrongly, but at least we've got a warm house now. Thanks to Peter from BG.