ESA and Atos! A legal case for violation of human rights?

[cameronjcw]

I know thousands possibly millions are subject to the new rules of deciding and assessing people with disabilities capability for work. I myself am having huge problems with this and through others in a similar situation with the same or similar disabilities that there are even now people who are pushed to the brink of what any human should be able to handle who have already commited suicide! I myself am on a similar path and I'm probably not even as bad as some of the people I know. One woman I know is having the same problems only worse and needs a lifesaving operation and has to wait because, well who knows really? But she is on the verge of complaining about her treatment but is even to scared to lodge an appeal against the medical staff who are subjecting her to this living nightmare in case it affects her treatment any further.

 

I am at a point where I don't myself know where to turn, have the CAB trying to help out but because things are in such a mess they are not able to make much progress.

 

Its really far too much to explain as I have been over and over it again and again. I am wondering is there a way to legally try and change the current system as a violation of basic human rights? Where do you go, who could you ask about this?

 

I don't care what people think of me and I'm at a stage where I really do have nothing to lose!

 

My blog is at www.hypermobile.co.uk where there is information on letters of complaint I have already only recently submitted. I have also recently written to my local MP and 10 Downing Street, no reply as of yet from any of these and not sure if or when I may get one.

 

We need help now while it matters not in a year or few years down the line when even more of us have become government suicide statistics at the hands of an orwellian government system!

Edited August 28, 2010 by ErikaPNP
link approved

[ErikaPNP]

Hi Cameron,

 

You'd need to firstly establish which article in the convention is breached by the current legislation - your post ins't clear in regard to what you think this may be.

 

If you are a victim of this breach, you can then raise an action for Judical Review, seeking a declaration from the Administritive Court that the public authority (in this case the DWP) has breached your Convention rights or is proposing to do so. You must commence litigation within 1 year of the breach. If there is a breach, the DWP's defence will most likely be that they had no option but to act in the manner it did because of a current Act. If this is the case, all the judge can do is issue a declaration of incompatibility. This is a statement that the court agrees that the current Act breaches convention rights and it then falls to the govenment to amend the legislation which causes the breach if they feel it is appropriate to do so - however, whether they do change it is at the discretion of the government at this point.

 

If the court states that there is no such breach, and you lose the case you would then have to apply to the Court of Appeal to appeal against the decision. If attended the Court of Appeal but remained unsuccessful with this, the next step would be an application to the Supreme Court, and if you attend Supreme Court and are unsuccessful, you would then within 6 months need to apply to the EC+HR.

 

You can find lots of information on the National Council for Civil Liberties website about human rights and about raising action.

[cameronjcw]

Thanks so much for that info! Suprisingly I can understand what you mean lol thanks for making it so easy to understand.

 

Is it possible for more than one person to submit this. Rather a collective number of people in the same situation with regards to how the new capability for work assessments are carried out? I have no legal background whatsoever but feel very strongly about this and want to do something proactive to help change this legislation.

[ErikaPNP]

Combined action is possible, yes, but they all have to be "victims" of the breach or potential breach. So I for example couldn't raise an action, strongly as I may feel about it because I have never claimed ESA thus am not a "victim" of the breach. Someone who has claimed it and has had their rights breached because of the legislation which has been applied to them, can raise an action.

[cameronjcw]

Great! There are lots of people who have been and are still in this position.

 

Just one more question (not that I have it all figured out already lol) If I was to initiate this would it be in Scotland or would it have to be in England. I know Scottish Law is different but I would like this to be for people in any area in the UK. Or would it possibly have to be submitted to each area with all the "victims" belonging to their part of the country.

 

Thanks for your replies, they are appreciated greatly!

[doktorjohn]

There are so many victims of this new regime. I've had my Incapacity benefit stopped and, even if I win the appeal, I will be migrated to ESA and then lose again. At that point I'll probably apply for JSA because I couldn't face another appeal; a tougher one at that.

 

My quality of life wasn't great and now it's worse. I think about suicide and I know that many many more people will too.

 

Good luck with any case you put forward. I myself have protested to my MP and the reply was a load of false assurances about how fair it all is.

 

dj

[ErikaPNP]

The legislation for ESA is applicable throughout Scotland, England and Wales so any change in the legislation would apply to Scotland, England and Wales. If it went as far as the EC+HR the entire EU would be bound by it. (Reciprocal agreements for benefits etc).

 

The court hierachy I gave you is for England. In Scotland, our court hierachy is different. It wouldn't be the high court or the court of appeal, it would be the Court of Session, then if unsuccessful it would need to go to the supreme court in England.

 

As far as I am aware, civil litigation is commenced in the area in which the breach or injury occured, but I could be wrong with that. I'll flag this up for someone who might be able to give a more solid answer.

[cameronjcw]

I can see why you feel like giving up so many people do because this system is so degrading and not viablie!!

 

All the more reason to all get together and do something about it! I think the more people behind submitting something like this the more likely we are to get something done and just keep pushing till we get the result we want. I know I may seem overly optimistic, believe me Im not but I dont think lying down and just accepting the system is going to help either. It will just mean there will be more and more people who will actually get to the point where they do actually go through with a suicide.

 

I personally will fight till the death on this its wrong. I will keep complaining too meanwhile. I don't care if I win my own ESA appeal I will keep going because I have a daughter who has the same condition and its affecting her a lot more and a lot sooner than it did with me! I owe it at least to her to try and do something.

 

Im thinking maybe a petition on my site may be the best way to start to get others to join me in my "mad" crusade but if we can get enough people who want to raise an action together I would hope that we would have a much stronger case than just one person. I'm also wondering if its possible to get people who have lost loved ones to submit their interest on behalf of people they have lost because they have been pushed to their limits on this system.

 

I think if we just sit back and do nothing we are only going to get more and more people being pushed to those limits too! I know myself Ive been so close, only because you feel as if you are stuck in a hopeless situation with no way of getting out of it, the only thing that keeps me going is a bit of solidarity and understanding from others in the same situation.

[cameronjcw]

Thanks Erika your information is invaluable!

 

I know maybe I got off on a bad footing but if theres anything at all I can do to help with the site I would be more than happy to!

[ErikaPNP]

Ok, I've had a response after flagging the court issue up. The action does have to be raised in the area where the breach occurred. Credit to Idainfife for confirming this, she's a wee gem!

[cameronjcw]

ok so if its in Wales, England or Scotland it has to be within each area if thats where the breach has occoured.

 

Is there any way to make it a UK wide breach given that the DWP is a UK wide organization?

[cameronjcw]

Thanks again btw!

[ErikaPNP]

If they find that the legislation breaches convention rights it will apply UK wide, because the legislation is UK wide.

 

However being a class action lawsuit, you may need to go about it in a different way. You could really benefit from legal advise here. You still don't say what right it is that's breached - I am curious

[cameronjcw]

I think you are right about the need for legal help! I'm going to see if I can get some from somewhere because theres no point in doing this if its not done properly.

 

Is there a (free) lawyer in the house.

[ErikaPNP]

I'd advise you to seek advise from Liberty. Their "your rights" website has information on it, and you can download a form to ask something specific.

 

Also try the equality and human rights commision.

 

The Scottish human rights commision can point you in the right direction to legal advise, if you are in Scotland.

 

Also if you are in Scotland, try the Govan law Centre, a free legal resource which provides legal advice on many issues including Social Welfare which ESA falls within. (Scottish charity no. SCO30193).

[cameronjcw]

Thanks I was thinking of contacting Govan Law Centre and I think I will take a few hours out of all my web stuff tonight and have a good read of all of these links! I know a lawyer who represented me against a case for food poisoning with Asda a few years ago and I had also contacted him since then and have been passed a contact for another lawyer when he couldnt help himself so I'm optomistic about that and he is usually really good at getting back to you fast so I have contacted him too!

 

Right better go get myself a coffee and drink some energy drink and get ready for a long reading session.

 

I found a great link via someone on FB regarding Atos. Is it ok for me to post it? Its a wordpress blog about Atos and is a good read, great information.

[ErikaPNP]

lol. Links, particularly about ATOS and DWP can be very dodgy. Depends really on what the content is as to whether it can be linked to from CAG (We must always protect CAG interests and our members). Post it and I'll check it out. Shouldn't take me long, a few minutes. If it's not ok though, I will have to remove it. If it's fine, it'll be approved, if not I'll let you know why.

[cameronjcw]

No worries I completely understand and thanks!!

 

http://dwpexamination.wordpress.com/examining-atos/

Edited August 29, 2010 by ErikaPNP
not edited: blog permitted

[Guest jsa12]

i think job centre plus are in breach of human rights',they involve private companies' to circumvent this to do the heavy work on customers',however what i have witnessed by treatment of others is humiliating and degrading treatment,they have a problem dealing with reality that everyone but them and their overseers are to blame for todays events not the sick/disabled and the long term unemployed.

[ErikaPNP]

Yep, it's someone posting about their experiences that others can share in, and a good sounding board, it's absolutely fine, and I'm sure others will enjoy reading it.

[ErikaPNP]

I'm sure you've viewed the HRA Cameron, but for those who don't and whom are thinking of raising an action, it's available here

 

Keep us posted on this one, Cameron let us know how you get on.

[starblackie]

Im with you, any help I can give. I think once the migation starts then a lot more people are going to be left vunerable. I myself have been on IB for past 8 years and have a review next year. I have bipolar and have been exteremly fearful for months and yes i too have felt pushed into a dark place with the anxiety and fear

[cameronjcw]

Great! Thanks Feeling a bit worn out today so apologies for the short replies.

[Helen2264]

I know thousands possibly millions are subject to the new rules of deciding and assessing people with disabilities capability for work. I myself am having huge problems with this and through others in a similar situation with the same or similar disabilities that there are even now people who are pushed to the brink of what any human should be able to handle who have already commited suicide! I myself am on a similar path and I'm probably not even as bad as some of the people I know. One woman I know is having the same problems only worse and needs a lifesaving operation and has to wait because, well who knows really? But she is on the verge of complaining about her treatment but is even to scared to lodge an appeal against the medical staff who are subjecting her to this living nightmare in case it affects her treatment any further.

 

Your post is a breath of fresh air for I have thought the same things about violation of human rights like thousands I was fobbed off and failed both ESA and DLA and they've even took me off my benefit and put me on JSA without even notify me they have recently put me back on Income Support under ill health took 5 years for them to accept illness which has been in their computer since I had to give up work they accept their mistake but as soon as I receive my premium payment a letter came about filling in an IB50 form which I will send next week needless to say I wil be back of JSA without the premium but this time round I will fight I was too ill last time but this has given me a new strength to face the medical people you either sink or swim I chose to swim and no one is going to denied my illness I have been working for 27 years previous to being ill and pay my taxes so I expect them to show me some respect as a human being and not fobbing off my health and rights. Cameron showing off his new baby yesterday as if he is a caring person how many babies was born same time as his and many would suffer poverty with benefits cuts. I tell you something will give that's just the tip of the iceburg it is always the poor and vulnerable that suffer and we need to be educatede to stick together and challenge the two clowns.

[Guest jsa12]

jsa is not the right benefit for those that have health problems/disabilities',you are expected to be job ready however this is often not the case,as well as jobseekers laws and the dealing with the job centre fortnightly this all takes its toll unfortunately.