License Agreement.. unfair deposit charges.

[Samantha86]

Hi. I really don't know much about the differences between all these different agreements, but basically I lived in a house where the landlord, moved away, his tenant (and friend) remained in the house and I moved in. We had a license agreement between the three of us. They then turned quite nasty after I said I wanted to leave (after 6 months) being very horrible indeed (details of which I won't go in to!). I moved out over a month ago, I didn't want them to have my new address here so gave them my parents (the letting agency have been helping me, although they have no contractual obligation, they felt they were harrassing me, and didn't want them to have my new address either, the Landlord and other tenant refused to use my work address.) However my mum has received a letter from them today, with a cheque for about £115 (my deposit was £375) with deductions for £80 to have the lock changed (which was not in my agreement), £50 for cutlery (WHAT!!!) and stupid things like £5 for batterys from remotes (really petty!) and £85 for cleaning, even though the letting agent who carried out the inspection said everything was fine! They have said they can provide receipts, which is fair, but I don't see why I should incur these charges. I took pictures of everywhere before I left, but they are on my digital camera so don't know how these would hold up if it did go further.

 

Any advice?? I'm so glad to be out of there and really want this all to be over, I'm starting to think that I don't actually care about the money, but why should they get to keep it???

 

Many thanks in advance for your help!!!

[MrShed]

What was the justification for cleaning, and whats the story behind cutlery?

[Samantha86]

They gave no justification just stated how much and what for. The place was spotless when i left! I have managed to speak to the letting agency and they said that everything was fine as they inspected it. He is also sueing the Letting Agency for not letting him have my new address. Although he seems content with having my parents address now.

 

As for the cutlery, he asked a few weeks before I left if I had seen a few missing items (around 4- he is that petty to count forks!), I had a look for them and said i didnt have them, and didnt know where they were. we both use the stuff so don't know how he can charge me 2.5 times the cost of an identical 24 piece set!!

 

The Agency, although not legally involved with me, have said i should be fine, but does anyone else have any words of wisdom??

 

Thanks!!!

[MrShed]

The help I can give is relatively limited I'm afraid.

 

You have no TDS protection, and as such if you wished to challenge these costs, you would have to take him to court.

 

IMHO, based solely upon the brief info given above, you would have a very very good case in small claims.

 

However, ultimately only you can decide whether these are justified costs or not, and whether it is worth letting a court decide whether they are.

 

I would say though that the onus is completely on the landlord to prove the "damages", not on you to disprove them, and again on the basis of what you have said I think that he will find it nigh on impossible to prove these damages.

 

I would start off by sending him a LBA (Letter Before Action), basically politely but firmly stating that you feel the charges are without foundation, and that you require the full amount of your deposit back within 14 days, otherwise you will unfortunately have no option but to lodge a civil claim.

[Samantha86]

Many thanks for this!! It helps a lot. I have written a letter detailing, in turn, each charge and challanging his justification for this. I will also add that I require the full amount in this time frame before taking it further!

 

Thanks!!!

[MrShed]

You are welcome.

 

Feel free to post the letter (with personal details removed of course) and I/others can glance over it if you wish!

[Samantha86]

Following your recent letter briefly detailing charges deducted from my deposit, I have sought legal advice. I have been advised that these charges are both unnecessary and disproportionate.

I have been advised that if I do not receive a refund of the full deposit amount within 14 days of the date of this letter to take further legal action.

Below are some points you may wish to consider with THE LANDLORD:

1. You should have provided to me a detailed list of deductions that you intended to make, and the reasons for these. This would allow me to contest any grievances and come to a reasonable agreement with you. You have not done this.

2. Landlords may change the locks to the property, following the departure of a tenant, at their own discretion. However, they are not entitled to charge the tenant for this. As I vacated the property on the agreed date and left my original set of keys (of which I assure no copies have been made) with yourself and LETTING AGENT this is not a valid claim.

3. The bedroom and communal areas were deemed acceptable following a final inspection, to which LETTING AGENT is my witness (I also have dated photos to prove this). I should not be charged for any cleaning of the communal areas; in addition your charge of £85 is, once again, unreasonable. The house was not professionally cleaned prior to the license agreement commencing and therefore I am under no legal obligation to pay for this to be done on vacation of the premises.

4. Similarly the mattress was also not professionally cleaned before commencement of our agreement. I was prepared to pay for this, and made reasonable effort to do so, to keep our situation as amicable as possible. However following your recent communication, I am no longer prepared to do this, and am under no legal obligation to do so.

5. With regards to the deduction of £50 to cover the replacement of cutlery, may I remind you of communication (over text message) that we had prior to my vacation of the property; you asked if I had the handful of items that were missing (around 4 if I recall), I replied that I did not have them, nor did I know where they were. I can confirm that I did not take these items of cutlery. I am also confused as to how you can justify charging £50 or around £12.50 per item of budget cutlery, when an identical 24 piece set is on sale in Ikea for £19.99 (i.e. £0.83 per item). I will not be covering this cost.

6. I am not required to pay for replacement batteries. I’m sure you can remember that throughout my time at ......., I provided all batteries for the communal areas and also gave you extra batteries for your own personal use. I took the batteries that I had provided as I had only recently changed them and required them in my new property.

7. I am not aware of any rent arrears, as this issue was not raised after paying my final rent instalment to you, although you were aware of my intended vacation date. This is the first communication I have had over this matter. However I have been advised that you forward a statement up until the 22nd July with clear explanation. Of course if a simple error as occurred on my part, I apologise and you should deduct this from my deposit.

Whilst I am writing, I would respectfully request that you and .... do not contact me via text message or telephone. If you require a more prompt response than the postal system will allow, I am happy to communicate via email. However I see no further issues and look forward to you fulfilling the last obligation as per the license agreement, and forwarding the full deposit amount I am owed. I will of course return your original cheque by recorded delivery if you request this, otherwise it will be destroyed appropriately.

Many thanks in advance.

[Samantha86]

This is the first draft of my reply letter!!

[MrShed]

Suggested changes or thoughts below in red:

 

Following your recent letter briefly detailing charges deducted from my deposit, I have sought legal (as this is an initial, polite, letter, I would be tempted to remove the word "legal" - it may seem confrontational advice. I have been advised for the same reason, I would state "I believe that..." here that these charges are both unnecessary and disproportionate.

I have been advised that if I do not receive a refund of the full deposit amount within 14 days of the date of this letter to take further legal action.

 

Would change this to "As such, please take this letter as a formal request that you return the entire value of the deposit (£xxx) within 14 days. Should I not receive this within this time, I will unfortunately need to take further action."

 

Below are some points you may wish to consider with THE LANDLORD this letter MUST be sent to the landlord, as he is legally responsible, so I would change this to "Please see below reasoning behind this":

1. You should have provided to me a detailed list of deductions that you intended to make, and the reasons for these. This would allow me to contest any grievances and come to a reasonable agreement with you. You have not done this.

2. Landlords may change the locks to the property, following the departure of a tenant, at their own discretion. However, they are not entitled to charge the tenant for this. As I vacated the property on the agreed date and left my original set of keys (of which I assure no copies have been made) no need to state that part in brackets with yourself and LETTING AGENT this is not a valid claim.

3. The bedroom and communal areas were deemed acceptable following a final inspection, to which LETTING AGENT is my witness (I also have dated photos to prove this). I should not be charged for any cleaning of the communal areas; in addition your charge of £85 is, once again, unreasonable. The house was not professionally cleaned prior to the license agreement commencing and therefore I am under no legal obligation to pay for this to be done on vacation of the premises. This paragraph isnt entirely true, but it will do the job. I would probably add that "Additionally, were you able to claim for cleaning costs, this would only be valid if such cleaning was due to damages not due to fair wear and tear. This is not the case."

4. Similarly the mattress was also not professionally cleaned before commencement of our agreement. I was prepared to pay for this, and made reasonable effort to do so, to keep our situation as amicable as possible. However following your recent communication, I am no longer prepared to do this, and am under no legal obligation to do so.Would add in reference to the fair wear and tear comment above.

5. With regards to the deduction of £50 to cover the replacement of cutlery, may I remind you of communication (over text message) that we had prior to my vacation of the property; you asked if I had the handful of items that were missing (around 4 if I recall), I replied that I did not have them, nor did I know where they were. I can confirm that I did not take these items of cutlery. I am also confused as to how you can justify charging £50 or around £12.50 per item of budget cutlery, when an identical 24 piece set is on sale in Ikea for £19.99 (i.e. £0.83 per item). "Even at this lower cost, as I am not responsible for this lost cutlery, I will not be covering this cost.

6. I am not required to pay for replacement batteries. I’m sure you can remember that throughout my time at ......., I provided all batteries for the communal areas and also gave you extra batteries for your own personal use. I took the batteries that I had provided as I had only recently changed them and required them in my new property.

7. I am not aware of any rent arrears, as this issue was not raised after paying my final rent instalment to you, although you were aware of my intended vacation date. This is the first communication I have had over this matter. However I have been advised that you forward a statement up until the 22nd July with clear explanation. Of course if a simple error as occurred on my part, I apologise and you should deduct this from my deposit.would remove this sentence and put "I will then check this statement to see whether arrears have in fact been incurred, and if so then any such arrears will be addressed." Reasoning for this is that you shouldnt currently give any encouragement to remove anything from the deposit, nor (should any arrears exist) should you prevent your potential "right of offset" to withhold the rent in lieu of the return of the deposit..

Whilst I am writing, I would respectfully request that you and .... do not contact me via text message or telephone. If you require a more prompt response than the postal system will allow, I am happy to communicate via email. However I see no further issues and look forward to you fulfilling the last obligation as per the license agreement, and forwarding the full deposit amount I am owed. I will of course return your original cheque by recorded delivery if you request this, otherwise it will be destroyed appropriately.

 

Would change last paragraph (other than the last sentence) to:

 

"Due to the potential unfortunate requirement for this issue to be taken any further, please take this as notification that I will only continue to correspond in writing, as such if you do require further correspondance with me, please do so in writing. However, I see no discussion around the above points, so I do not see any need for further correspondance. In particular, any further correspondance will not delay or change my timescale after which I will proceed further."

Many thanks in advance.

Edited August 21, 2010 by MrShed

[MrShed]

Of course, these are only my thoughts - in particular with regards of the tone of the letter, others will obviously think differently. My personal experience is that "polite but firm" without dropping too many comments re "legal" and the like in the first instance tends to not put the recipient in stubborn "back-up" mode!

[Samantha86]

Thank you SO much!!! That sounds fab

I have made all those changes!!

 

Thanks again

[Samantha86]

Hello again!!

 

So I sent that letter two weeks ago. He had until today to reply... and hasn't. I'm hoping this is going to help my case ANy thoughts on what I need to do now? Do I send him a brief letter informing him I am taking the case to small claims? And how much detail should I go into on the application? Below is what I have so far to write on the web application (do I get the opportunity to attach all the correspondance and license agreement etc do you know?

 

'I wish to claim the full amount of the

deposit (£375) which was given to the

defendant on January 22nd 2010 as part of the

License agreement (held between me, **** and the Landlord, ****) for (the address), plus court charges of £35.

Since vacating the property on the 22nd July

2010, **** has not cooperated with my

efforts to resolve this situation

amicably. He initially offered £114, after

deducting unneccessary, unfair and

disproportionate charges, of which he did not

give explanation. Nor do many of these

charges correlate with the details of the

License Agreement. He failed to reply to my

letter detailing why I was not prepared to

cover such charges, within the 14 day period

I allowed. I feel this was an adequate period

of time. I had tried to reach a resolution

by agreeing to share some costs, however, due

to his inability to respond, I now wish

to claim the full outstanding deposit amount.@

 

Many thanks again!!

Sam x