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    • Thanks for replying, i informed the seller in December 20, they initially sent me the email below.   ""With reference to your valued order and our recent inspection of your images. We have now investigated your concerns and can confirm that there are no manufacturing defects present and your carpet is reacting normally. The change of appearance of your carpet is due to the way in which the pile has settled unevenly with use and can show in some areas more than others. This is caused by the heavy traffic concentrated onto a small area coupled with the twisting of feet as you turn. All carpets have places where it is walked on more than others. This is a normal characteristic of any carpet and pile reversal and pile compression is not considered a manufacturing defect and is a natural occurrence in any carpet with some showing the effect more than others In way of a more detailed explanation it is the sides of the tufts of your carpet that appear a lighter, more silvery shade than when the tufts are viewed end-on. As the pile settles, lighter and darker patches develop depending on the angle of the pile. It is quite common for pile to settle in different directions to the normal pile lay as foot traffic bends the pile different ways and this will dull the appearance and will distort very slightly the appearance as you must appreciate. The angle of the pile has no effect on the durability of the carpet and we are confident it will continue to give you many years of satisfactory service. This effect can be rejuvenated to a degree by regular use of a vacuum cleaner with a rotating brush mechanism on the head In conclusion, we would confirm there are no manufacturing defects present with your carpet and we hope our explanation will further clarify your understanding of the carpet’s characteristics.""     i objected to their explanation and they have agreed to send one of their surveyors when restrictions are lifted, my stance if they say there is no fault then surely the carpet does not posses reasonable durability based on the purchase price.   Thanks
    • Marsdens did not even acknowledge any of the letters. I think they ignore them so people get bored. I am just thankful that it was not me who owed the money. I do not know what I would have done. Do they usually collect debts from at least 8 years ago? I am just getting the date from my son he has the cctv record. I really wanted to know if they were allowed to go into an address that had nothing to do with the debt. Mostly because I am afraid anyone can just walk into my home. My daughter moved into the property 6 years ago . The man Richard whos name was on the paperwork moved out of that property approx 8 ytars ago. He never lived at my address.
    • Ok thanks. Understand, i thought it added to the time, so if held up in court you added that to your time. Assuming its discontinued
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies

Blackhorse keep changing default date everytime in gets near 6yrs


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Hi Sam Brig as asked I look in.

 

How long as this default now been on file?

 

Information:-

 

 

Your credit file may show the following:

 

A live account. This may show on your credit reference file until the account is settled or

closed. It may then show on your file for six years.

 

A settled or closed account. This may show on your credit reference file for six years

from the date it was closed.

 

A defaulted account. This may show on your credit reference file for six years from the

date of the default. A default normally occurs when the terms of a credit agreement

have not been met and the account is three to six months in arrears. When the debt is

repaid, the entry on your credit reference file should be marked as settled or satisfied.

 

Assigned Debts.

 

53. If the purchaser agrees to take control of the record, the customer should be informed that the debt has been sold or assigned and to whom. The credit reference agency file should be changed to show the name of the purchaser and that the rights to the debt have been sold or assigned. The purchaser should then make sure the record is kept up to date including changes to the amount still owed. The purchase should not affect how long the record is kept. It should be removed six years after the default.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Why did the insurers fail to pay out ? Was this Insurance that came with the loan?

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Right the insurance at the time was a PPI but this is where the original confusion ove default date took place

The insurance wasalso with Black horse and at the time was considered the best thing since sliced bread

PPI paid out but then decided to recover the money from me

 

 

I cannot argue the point of debt simply as I don't have any 10 year old paperwork and neither does Black horse the information commissioner accepts that so the default date now used was the one first used in small claims court which was 2004 rather than date of last payment of 2003

Either way it is still statute barred

 

 

Black horse kept changing it until there last entry of February 2006 when they sold the debt to Arrow global ltd

 

Arrow global decided in February 2012 to change the default to October 2006 to keep the debt serviceable

 

 

Both Arrow global and Black horse have now finally removed the entries to get the ICO off there backs and in return the ICO has taken no further action

Black horse has accepted the error and sent me a cheque for £100 which seems to have satisfied the financial services ombudsman although I've not had there findings yet just what I pick up from speaking to them on the phone

 

Now here's the cherries on the cake please no laughing

 

Neither Black horse or Arrow global accept my complaint that for years my day to day life expenses was elevated because of there credit postings

Things like car insurance and credit cards etc all carry an elevated rate if your seen as a bad debtor

 

When we tried to rent a family property we was refused on credit history grounds and this default is my only black mark.

 

Both companies refuse to accept any blame or costs, refusing to cover the costs involved in proving there is no debt on the grounds in there view CRAs are just library's any credit offer with another company is beyond there influence and if I take an offer made at a higher rate this is my choice

 

They claim a default notice rightly or wrongly will not affect credit offered and it's impossible to prove my higher rates etc were as a result of there fraudulent publishings

 

So according to them a CRA serves no purpose, in fact in my opinion it's the sole purpose

 

I need some good clear legal wording for the court papers let a judge decide wether they are responsible and should cover my costs

Then just maybe others can have an easier time quoting precedence

Edited by citizenB
formattaing for easier reading
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Looking in Sam,

 

Can you p[ost upa suitably redacted copy of the AG letter please?

 

I think the statement that they have published ''information they were told is true'' may open a door to having a ''go'' at BH once again.

I'm at work until Thursday I will post up both letter from arrow global and an hilarious letter from the DSA the voice of the collection industry who I also complained to who wrote to me after investigating my complaint and basically called me a liar when I stated arrow global from date of inserting the default was challenged 3 times that the date was monitored and incorrect

Even after I supplied him with the statement given by Experian this was the case and the SAR from Arrow Global confirms this

 

Now not holding my breath but my MP Richard Bacon assistant has asked for my paperwork and just maybe Mr Bacon may take this case up with the banking minister or ask questions why this practice blatantly goes on

Bottom line is monitor your credit file, I know it's expensive and if you have defaulted then soul destroying paying to see your uncredited worthy every month for 6 years

Most of us don't check until after the 6 years then like in my case it's difficult to prove and very time consuming to prepare a complaint for the ICO

Banks seem to know this and using this back door to extend a debts life

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Are the ICO going to write to you with their conclusions in this matter - it would be very supporting if you could show the ICOs findings.

 

Do you have proof of the way creditors / lenders treated you and are you able to directly link it back to the adverse reporting on your credit files.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Are the ICO going to write to you with their conclusions in this matter - it would be very supporting if you could show the ICOs findings.

 

Do you have proof of the way creditors / lenders treated you and are you able to directly link it back to the adverse reporting on your credit files.[/quote]

 

 

Very important point by CB if we are considering mounting a claim for damages.

 

 

Info :- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291299-Durkin-v-HFC.-Anyone-tried-it

 

Andy

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Are the ICO going to write to you with their conclusions in this matter - it would be very supporting if you could show the ICOs findings.

 

Do you have proof of the way creditors / lenders treated you and are you able to directly link it back to the adverse reporting on your credit files.

Yes the ICO has published its conclusion on this I'm at work until thurdsday but I can remember they found Black horse had wrongly changed the default date and after instruction was happy Black horse had complied with the findings of the ICO

The ICO had accepted Black horse loss of data and delays over servicing an SAR no further action was bieng taken

Thursday night I'll publish the report in full appreciate your views

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If you are going to post the letter on your thread, follow the instructions below :)

 

Dx100 – Instructions on uploading pdfs

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Right im home an hoping these uploads all work as they should

I have just rung the ICO investigator who has confirmed they are taking no further action now the case has been rectified

I have said i wish to put in an official complaint over the findings and papers are bieng sent

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irrelevant comment..

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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It is certainly a wishwashy response from the ICO - however it does support your claim regarding the Default entry as being incorrect .

 

So in effect the default information has been recorded on your CRA for 2 years longer than necessary.

 

I think you need to collect any and all information regarding any damage that might have been done to your credit rating in the first instance.

 

You should put together a detailed list of all the costs involved in order to resolve this situation.

 

Letters written, telephone calls over the past 2 years. Only once you have collected all your evidence/proof should consider issuing a claim

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Black horse responce to me and the memo to Arrow Global (can anyone spot the default changing from the date Black horse gave the ICO and the one they sent to Arrow Global

Also please note Arrow Globals adamant denial that Black horse sold them the debt

I apologize for many posts but I can only upload 5 documents at one time

Edited by Samndazzle
edited to remove personal information just left banks adress now
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I also would like you guys opinions of ho my complaint was viewd byt the CSA DSG people who called me a liar when i stated that Experian had challenged on my behalf on 2 occasions when they posted there default stating they had been monitoring the situation which Arrow Global ignored

To Experian credit they gave me a written statement for the ICO stating they had alerted Arrow Global of a potential error on 2 occasions and a copy of this statement was supplied to the CSA

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you could always make a multi page pdf?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Post 138 the first attachment - still has your name and address on it. I have unapproved the attachments can you remove your personal information and repost the document :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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you could always make a multi page pdf?

 

dx

im computer dangerous lol please feel free to edit how you think it should be please

My argument is not that the default date was on there for 2 years longer than it should be in 2004 we went to county court on 2 occasions and i staisfied them on both occasions there was no debt

since 2004 i have had defaults for a debt in 2002 and it was only removed after years of bothering you guys my default date changing and a rulin gfrom the information comissioners office

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OK guys maybe you might have ideas please

Black horse has won, thye got off it

Feeling extremely upset and almost suicidle, I was right for at least 8 years ive been hounded for a debt that was never a debt

The ICO has ruled Black horse has even chased a debt that wasnt a debt for at least 2 years

But after speaking directly with the ivestigator the official ruling is Black horse is non compliant in my case although they have agread to let this case drop without accepting faults of any kind

The ICO has decided to close the matter and not pursue either Black Horse or Arrow Global

 

I am told I can ask for a review with a more senior ICO member so ive got one shot how can i express how much this has affected me and demand some kind of justice

No wonder the banks continue to carry on with these stunts im realy downhearted now what can I do please i cannot even find a solicitor for advice

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If they have advised you can have a review, then of course you should take that offer up.

 

If you want to post up a draft of your complaint then perhaps it can be fine tuned for maximum impact :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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2 questions re that

On what grounds do I serve the papers on

Is it slander or something

Reason I'm so upset is I wanted them punished / told off / reprimanded

For 8 years I've been defaulted over a debt that wasn't a debt

Im told I can't argue that point as no one has any papers or records of the original contract all we have is court papers from 2004 showing I owed nothing

 

Life's been real bad and having that default prevented me from renting or buying a home for my family

Credit cards have been at an elevated rate even my employer asked once about my credit history there is a stigma if I'm a bad debtor then why would a company trust my judgement in a senior role

Everyone ( and this thread is 3 years old) view me as mental or I've been lying about the facts I even had to suffer the embarrassment last year when my son got he's 1st job and I couldn't go as a guarantor on a I phone contract as he's 16

Whenever I've spoken to arrow global or Black horse I'm spoken to aggressively and like I'm ****

To pay the monitoring services for past 3 years is £40 a month, monies been really tight but I just felt it was all wrong like I'm bieng bullied

I've endured nearly 9 months of the ICO arguing my case and I was elated when they agreed I was a victim

No apology no promise to comply with the laws nothing, not even covered my stamps and the ICO feel they will not comply but removed the files so quit whilst ahead

Sorry it just feels wrong and hopeless

I'm a sub educated disabled man, filling court papers and having to speak to a judge and not having right paperwork or failing under cross examination petrified me

I couldn't win an argument with a half wit let alone against barristers, it's one thing writing on a forum but I've had 8 years now of collection agency calls and doorstep bailiffs

If someone could tell me under what section they should be taken to court I'll do it on Monday

 

I will think up a letter to ask my case to be reviewed and post it here for tweaking, but I just feel laws are there to catch me out not protect me

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Update

The ICO have responded and ive re responded my views

Basicly its not the ICO job to enforce the rules or even give an opinion they invited me to recomplain and maybe they will look at Arrow Globals role in all this

im going to fire a small claims court action after all can anyone suggest under what legal heading to sue under is it harrasement etc?

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  • 2 weeks later...
can anyone suggest under what legal heading to sue under is it harrasement etc?

 

General damage to creditworthiness should net you £5K. Lodge it at your local court if you can. It will be quicker. Possibly just 4 weeks.

 

Base it on Kpohraror v Woolwich 1996 and mention (if you like) that this was ratified in the Scottish Court of Session in Durkin v DSG & HFC.

 

Keep it simple. The bank will try and make it complicated.

 

Good luck.

 

Richard.

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Thanks Durkin I will

Update re all this

The information comissioner have re looked at the case and the outcome and ive been assigned 2 refrence numbers now and the case is bieng re investigated so both Black horse and Arrow global can not simply pass the blame

 

Stunningly and im shocked Arrow Global now claim they removed the default publication then re inserted it a month later soley to amend a adress issue to save me having a worng adress search but simply overlooked the only change in the 2 publications were my default date which was extended a further 6 months and this happened whilst the Information comissioner ws conducting hes investigation

 

I have been given 2 refrence numbers by the FSO tried contacting my investigator as of yet no luck

 

Black horse stance is the matter is closed they issued a cheque for £100 for overpayment and will not communicate any further on the matter

Arrow Globals stance i they will now no longer comunicate with myself as there are investigations going on

 

My stance is I do not need to wait for an investigation although helpful its for the courts to decide for themself the outcome of the case Arrow global published and changed my defult dates themsels they cannot argue they did so under instruction from others and be exempt from any repucussions

 

Arrow Global were shown the orignal papers from the court when they first published and chose to ignore it

Edited by citizenB
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