County Court Claim form received - Cabot ***WON***

[cymruambyth]

hi attachment not attached; thumbnail to small to read!

[Brassed off]

Is this any better:-

 

Edited August 30, 2010 by Brassed off
Problems uploading docs :-(

[car2403]

No, you need to use a photo service like Photobucket and paste the file link so we can see it

[Brassed off]

 

 

At last!

[PriorityOne]

OMG... am I reading this correctly? They're actually saying they don't have any documents.... only an "inference" that documents exist.

 

Do what?!

 

Actually no.... they're saying they haven't even made an "inference".... which means that they're just fancying their chances and hoping for a big dollop of consumer ignorance on the day...

[PriorityOne]

Why is my post showing in the middle of the last 3 posts somewhere?.... confused.com.... lol

 

Edit... strange.... it's sorted now...

[car2403]

They are wriggling...

 

Have you CCA'd and SAR'd Cabot?

[Brassed off]

They've provided copies of everything apart from the T&Cs P1. This debt is eleven years old though so can't see them having an original of anything!

 

Car, I CCA'd Cabot a few years ago and it was months before they provided a copy of the Agreement. I've not SAR'd them.

[gh2008]

You can always make a CPR31.12 application for documents not yet disclosed ....... No Court will refuse an application for the Agreement, T&C's or the DN as these documents are vital to the case.

OR use the AQ to request Special Directions for their disclosure. In fact I would request special Directions that they re-plead their case properly ......

 

I would also make an S78 request to Cabot ASAP ..... be interesting to see what they come up with and if they do not comply that's another nail in their coffin.

[RobinWayRobinme]

Seems they are playing games but, need to be careful with them applying for judgment in default. You could send off a Part 18 request asking questions like 1. Are your relying upon a credit agreement in support of your claim, if yes kindly provide full details as required by ..... 2. Are you relying upon an equitable assignment or absolute assignment from 3 If you are relying upon a legal or absolute assignment when was the defendant served with a nOA. 4. Do you have proof of posting of the NOA in the form of a recorded delivery or special delivery receipt ... 5. Are you relying upon the defendant being served with a default notice under s>> od CCA, if so when was it served..

 

Plus other questions like that. They are obliged to answer within 7 days and then you can 31.14 any docs they then disclose. Tell them that their POC are not fully particularised, abuse of proces etc etc and that you will be applying for an order to allow extra time for them to answer pt 18 request and then request copies of the documents or after due consideration, maybe a strike out. Other opinions needed

R

[Brassed off]

I've rung Morgans and the court today. Morgans have said they will contact the court to check that my defence has been filed. The court have said that Morgan's can't get a judgment in default as the court records show receipt of my defence and that Morgans should be checking with the court and not writing to me!

 

As for everyone's replies, I will have to do some homework before posting - apologies but it's a very busy week this week

[Rhia]

Hello Brassed Off,

 

I have just been through your thread and this is a very interesting case although I am sure you think it's a total nightmare. My reading of it is they have feck all documents to support their claim so are twisting the law to try and recover under contract law and the Law of Property thus, at a masterly Cabot stroke, circumventing the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act and its regulations and statutory instruments in all its glory.

 

First and foremost it was Parliament's intent to protect the average consumer and created the CCA to set aside separate rules from ordinary contract law to regulate the business of creditor/debtor. Further, under the EU Directives which now frame our consumer laws, if there is any doubt over interpretation then the EU states the interpretation that is most favourable to the consumer should take precedence.

 

They are technically correct about the use of CPR 31. You need to use a Part 18 request for any document, letter, item that they have failed to supply. You also (as someone has suggested) need to send a Subject Access Request to Cabot pronto. Although the Deed of Assignment may seem to be a red herring, it is wise to bring it into the action. Their assignments are absolute not equitable and in five years of involvement with their cases I have yet to come across one that was equitable.

 

Cabot will have sent you what they call "representations" of the NoA, the default notice and in fact every so called letter they clam to have sent. They never have copies of any of the originals which you must insist on asking for inspection of in court. These need to be properly "certified" copies.

 

I would put in a Part 18 request and SAR without delay and let's see what they come back with. BTW have you asked for this case to be moved to your local county court (I thought it was issued from Northampton but may be wrong as a lot to take in).

 

I would like to see your Deed of Assignment if you are able to post it up. If too large then perhaps you could PM me.

[Brassed off]

Hi Rhia

 

Thanks for your input. Yes, it's a bit of a nightmare at the moment!

 

I will send a Part 18 request to Morgans for a copy of the T&Cs, NoA and Deed of Assignment. Does anyone have a template for this?

 

I haven't received any T&Cs or the NoA and to be honest although it was a long time ago, I'm sure that I was never given any T&Cs at the time.

 

Yes, they have sent "representations" of the documents I've requested so far. As this debt is eleven years old, couldn't they say that in view of its age, they can't provide originals of the Agreement? I will make sure that I ask for sight of original copies in court for inspection.

 

They haven't provided a DoA, just a photocopy of an Account Sale Agreement between Kings Hill (No1) Ltd and Hitachi Credit which is about 44 pages long with the majority of info blacked out.

 

I will SAR Cabot today. Does anyone have an up to date SAR I could use?

 

Yes, the case is at NCCBC at the moment. I haven't asked for the case to be moved to my local County Court as I was advised by Northampton that this would be done automatically.

 

I haven't received a copy of the DoA as Morgans are still maintaining that Cabot are the Assignee.

 

PM on it's way.

 

Just for info the POCs on the claim form state:-

 

"The Claimant is the Assignee of a Debt(s) from Hitachi Capital Time Computers Ltd ref xxxxxxx, Notice of Assignment having been given to the Defendant in writing. Despite demand for Payment, 2xxx.xx remains due. The Claimant claims 2xxx.xx and interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 and costs."

[Rhia]

Here's some info on the use of Part 18. You send a letter. I do have one somewhere in my files. I will pop back later when I have found it unless someone comes up with one before then as I have "stuff" to attend to - of the domestic kind.

 

http://www.pinsentmasons.com/PDF/RequestsforFurtherInformation.pdf

 

This is a SAR request I have used. It's not my own original work but gleaned from other sources on here and elsewhere so apologies if anyone recognises their work. I am using it for the greater good. Brassed Off I have already changed the text to the Cabot names so just check it but you can just cut and paste. I would get this in the post today if you can and keep a photocopy and get it signed for so they can't say they didn't receive it.

 

 

Subject Access Request made under Section 7 of The Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

Dear XXX

 

Please supply me with all records relating to my history with Cabot Financial Europe Ltd and Cabot UK Ltd and any other company in the Cabot group of companies with regard to the above referenced account. I enclose the statutory £10 fee to cover such request.

 

Whilst not exhaustive and for the avoidance of doubt I require all documents, statements, correspondence, memos and notes from the commencement of the above specified accounts up to the present.

 

In view of the Information Commissioners Office advice I also require copies of all records held on microfiche or other relevant systems.




Please supply me with the following:

 

1. Copies of all the original contracts, including but not restricted to any ppi/insurance premiums, relating to the above accounts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organization. This must also include true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same. If they do not exist or cannot

be provided, I would like confirmation of this, and an explanation as to why sent to me in

writing.

 

2. Copies of all financial statements relating to the above accounts for the whole period that such accounts were held with the Cabot group of companies.

 

3. Copies of any relevant terms and conditions leaflets and any associated documents dating from when the account was first opened. Copies of the original Notice of Assignment, Default Notice (ADD ANY OTHER YOU NEED HERE BO) which bear my personal details. All copies must be properly certified and the originals will need to be made for inspection at the court hearing.

 

4. Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information relating to the above accounts. Including copies of any letters sent to myself or any third party, any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.


 

5. Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other

format including text messages and telephone calls which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to me.


 

6. Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, I require information as to the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the actual dates and methods of destruction of this data.

 

7. Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.


 

8. Where there has been any event in my account history which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

 

Also, where any of the information requested relates to information that is older than 6 years, you are still required under the Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act) 1998 to provide it to me. The Data Protection Act clearly states that all information held must be disclosed and it has no correlation to the Limitation act 1980 at all.

 

 

If any of the information requested is not readily accessible or requires a longer period to recover, then in the meantime please provide me with all such information that is more readily accessible, and an explanation and estimated reasonable time-scale as to when I can expect the remainder.




You may not use the inability to provide some of the information requested as a valid reason to withhold any or all of the remainder of information that is more readily accessible.

 

If you contend that you are not obliged to provide any of the information requested, or you claim that it is of a privileged nature, then I require you provide me with a written explanation as to which provisions under which statutory laws you intend to rely for such claims.

 

If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within the statutory 40 days of receipt of this letter, I reserve the right to complain to the Information Commissioner and/or apply to the County Court for an order to enforce compliance, along with an application for costs and damages at the discretion of the court.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Rhia

[Brassed off]

Thanks for that Rhia

 

I've just been going through all the information from Morgans and at the back of the Account Sale Agreement, there is a copy of the T&Cs which Hitachi have provided Cabot with. They're almost illegible but I did notice at the very bottom that they are from the year 2000. Morgans/Cabot would have to provide me with the T&Cs from 1999 as that was when the finance was taken out. I'll make sure I detail that in the Part 18 request!

[Brassed off]

Please don't mention the "domestic" word again, you will make me feel guilty lol

[Brassed off]

I've SAR'd Cabot direct and am going to get the Part 18 done to send to Morgans tomorrow. Will post up for comments this evening.

 

Do I need to respond to Morgans last letter though?

[pt2537]

lol, Cabot,Cabot,Cabot

 

Lord Justice Rix in Expandable v Rubin said the CPR was for a cards on the table approach, not for hiding documents etc.

 

I would suggest a part 18 request, angled in such a way whereas they would have no option but to disclose or face an order of the court compelling them to answer the part 18

 

It worked for me recently, settled the job about 7 days after the request was made

[Brassed off]

Hi pt

 

Lol

 

You don't happen to have a template for this angle by any chance ???

 

I'm out most of today and want try and get the Part 18 sent tomorrow!! They still haven't provided the DN, NoA or any T&Cs!!

 

TIA

[pt2537]

you cant really template these things, as a part 18 is a set of questions, i did do a thread on here, but since i no longer have a signature, cos someone deleted it, i dont know where it is gone, sorry

 

A part 18 is in accordance with Part 18 Civil Procedure Rules, it must be clear what you want, the questions must be understandable and not incoherent , and the requst must give a reasonable time, and state the deadline for compliance.

[Brassed off]

I have to go out now but will be back this evening. I'll put something together then - I think I have an idea how to word it and will post up for comments.

 

Presumably 7 days will be sufficient for compliance or should I give them longer?

[car2403]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255329-CPR-part-18-vs-CPR-31-14-Confused-well-read-here

 

[gh2008]

This one?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255329-CPR-part-18-vs-CPR-31.14-Confused-well-read-here&highlight=

[gh2008]

didn't see Car's post sorry

[Brassed off]

I'm just about to start the Part 18 request but am a bit thrown now after reading up. Under Part 18, I can't request documents eg T&Cs and the NOA they haven't provided, only ask for clarification/elaboration on the ones they already have - help