Barking PCN - entering a pedestrian zone

[Otterby]

Many thanks. The picture is even clearer now! So you think the points I've made with regard to the way the restriction is presented will cut any ice with these 'law enforcers'?

[lamma]

But when I said 'they'll just up the fee and send the bailiffs round' you replied 'not a chance, have a read on here.'

 

they can't send the bailiff round. there is a process to follow.

[green_and_mean]

Otterby,

 

You may come across some threads and posts about whether the enforcement process actually involves a "court" or not. You may also come across posts describing the activities of bailiffs.

 

The reality is that, fascinating as these debates may be, the legislation allows for the enforcement of PCNs and NTOs once the appeal process has been exhausted as a civil debt. This means that if you fail to pay after exhausting you legal options as far as you wish it is highly likely that you will lose your car and possibly more besides.

 

How very true all the pointless arguments over is the TEC a Court, part of a Court or deemed a Court will mean very little as you see you pride and joy disapearing down your street on the back of a baliffs truck.

[Otterby]

So, it would seem my position is grim. Onward and downward.

 

I'm going out now. I might be some time.

[angelwhitea1]

Im also in the same boat!

 

Got a PCN on Friday dated 7/7/2010, for failing to comply...(Code: 53J)

I have passed this place dozens of times, even traffic wardens have confirmed its okay to pass, as long as one does not load!

 

I went back there on yesterday (Sunday, 11/7/2010), misread the signs and drove through again...I took some pictures of the signs which are not clear, it does not expressley state that vehicles are not allowed to pass. It allows access to Vicarage Fields??? Can one not state this as ones destination, surely I could have changed my mind and decided to drive on. What have you decided to do Lamma? Anyone successfully appealed before?

Thanks in advance for your time and advice.

 

PS: Got a ticket appeal that was rejected by tfl...the dreaded 'Wilton Road in Victoria' I am going all the way to the adjudicator with that one

[Otterby]

Hello Angelwhitea1

 

It's me who's in the same boat as you. So sorry you've been caught, but interested that someone else confirms the completely misleading nature of the so-called pedestrian zone set-up. For one thing, what's pedestrian about it?

 

I was done for continuing round into Station Road. You too? You notice approaching from Ripple Road the first thing you see is a 'you have priority over oncoming vehicles' sign, which is not the best thing to see if you're about to enter an area where you're not allowed to go.

 

I've put all this in my emailed representation - amongst other points - I'll let you know how I get on. Good luck. Here's the points I made:

 

 

1 Approaching the restricted zone from Ripple Road, the first sign you see advises that you have priority over oncoming vehicles. This is enough to put you in the frame of mind that it's ok to proceed.

 

2 The signs giving details of the restricted zone, which are not particularly large, come after the 'priority given' sign, and what's more the one on the left, the drivers side, is obscured for a while by a lamppost.

 

3 There is no sign-age on the road surface itself to indicate that one is about to enter a restricted zone.

 

4 The road layout at this point is such that there is little indication that one must turn off to the right to avoid entering the restricted zone. It just looks like a continuation of the road.

 

5 The wording on the signs advising of the restriction is ambiguous. It describes the section of road ahead as a 'Pedestrian Zone' which in reality it's not as vehicles are allowed to enter. Although motorcycles and cars are prohibited, they can enter to 'access Vicarage Fields at any time'. There's also some times given, but these are only Monday to Saturday. There is no mention of Sunday at all, the day that I was there.

 

I assume you're going to send a representation? Perhaps pointing out the above, and any other points you've noticed, might have an effect. I'm sure most people just pay these things.

[green_and_mean]

You need to get the traffic order to see a) what the restriction and exemptions actually are and b) to check the sign matches the TRO

[Otterby]

Thanks, but I've spent enough precious time on this demeaning and petty carry on. I'll wait and see the results of my representation, which will probably be rejected, pay the £60, and then send an exocet letter in a number of very well-aimed directions. But thanks for your time and help.

[angelwhitea1]

Hi Otterby,

 

Sorry for the mix up. Thanks for your response, I will be stating those in my appeal as well, I guess it will be rejected, as most are, the only chance of success might be to take it all the way to the adjudicator!

Like you I have spent precious time trawling the sites looking for people who might have successfully appealed a Barking one, but to no avail.

 

I will send in my appeal this week, and hope I don't get another for driving through yesterday. @ Green and Mean - Where does one get a TRO from? I really feel like dumping the car sometimes, I have had 3 parking tickets in the last 3 months! One is a private parking fine so doesn't count - yes my time on these forums has educated me a bit!

 

I wish you all the best, do let us know the outcome. Did you send any pictures of the signs with your appeal?

 

Thank you all

[Otterby]

Bad luck with the parking fines. They seem to come in batches. If only there could be a rebellion where everyone banded together and stopped paying parking fines. An impossible dream maybe. We need an 'I'm Spartacus' moment.

 

I didn't send photos actually, just as clear a description as I could. Perhaps we should keep in touch, and if the representations fail, go through to appeal together with the same arguments. Someone I know was caught and just paid it - she works inside the restriction and got the PCN when she went there for the interview! - and she says many people get caught by this, confirming the misleading nature of the set-up.

[green_and_mean]

@ Green and Mean - Where does one get a TRO from?

 

Usually the Council will send it to you if you ask if not it is available to view and copy somewhere like the civic centre or main library. Some are online so it may be worth a google or try the London Gazete website.

[FromBarking]

Otterby, I have received exactly same PCN just about 1 hr later. I live in Barking and know this place and I was sure that there is no restriction on Sunday. I have been told so by one of the people that trades there, also I have seen many people driving there on Sunday and the most important - it is not mentioned clearly on the sign - about any restrictions on Sunday. I think the description to this sigh in complete mess, I really tried to understand it and be sure that I will not get a fine but it is so unclear when the restriction occur. On the bottom of the sign says that Mon-Sat what makes impression that there is no any restrictions on Sundays. This is because all description when the sign is valid is far too long and reading this is not possible when you driving. I have impression that all thing is done by council on purpose to gather more money. This is the most confusing place I have seen in my life and I guess not only to me as always when I am there on Sundays I can see cars driving there. We need to stand against this PCN and council must change how this place is arranged. I am also appealing. I have some experience with fighting against council with PCNs. Sadly they do not seem to treat you seriously until you appealing to adjudicator. Situation that I had before council was rejecting any of my appeals but once it went to adjudicator they sent me letter that they cancel my PCN and that I do not have to go to adjudicator and to forget about whole thing. Lets keep in touch

[Otterby]

Dear FromBarking

 

Very pleased to hear from you, though not that you've been caught like me. This is very encouraging. You make some good points, and it's reassuring that other's had the same experience and feel the same way. Yes, we must appeal, fight it all the way, because our case against it - that the whole set-up is unclear and confusing - is watertight. I agree that with all the information on the signs (and the size of it) you've passed it anyway before you've either noticed it or had time to read it. As you say, it's clear that they bringing in lots of money using this set-up to bring in money. Let's keep in touch about it and make a stand. Are we allowed to put our email addresses here? There's also someone else called Angelwhitea1 who's currently contesting the same PCN.

[green_and_mean]

Road Traffic Acts

Transport for London

ROAD TRAFFIC REGULATION ACT 1984

THE LONDON BOROUGH OF BARKING AND DAGENHAM BARKING TOWN CENTRE (PROHIBITION OF DRIVING) ORDER 2010

1. Transport for London on behalf of the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham, hereby gives notice that on 21st January 2010 the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham made the above named Order under sections 6, 124 and Part I to IV of Schedule 9 to Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (as amended) and all other enabling powers. The Order will come into force on the 28th January 2010.

2. The general nature and effect of the Order will be to:

(1) Extend the Pedestrian area of Barking Town Centre to the junctions between Vicarage Drive / Ripple Road and Cambridge Road / Station Parade.

(2) Prohibit vehicles other than East London Transit buses from travelling through the Pedestrian area of Barking town centre with the exception of:

(a) Loading/unloading to frontages along Ripple Road and Station Parade within the Pedestrian area of Barking Town Centre to be carried out between 6.00am – 10:00am and 5:00pm – 7:00pm Mondays to Friday with access to be from Ripple Road only

(b) Access to Vicarage Fields Service Yard A (within Pedestrian Area of Barking Town Centre) from Station Parade only, at any time

© Access to Vicarage Fields Service Yard B (within Pedestrian Area of Barking Town Centre) from Ripple Road only, at any time

3. The roads which would be affected by the Order are roads proposed for the East London Transit Route in the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham.

4. A copy of the Order, together with plans of the area showing the effect of the Order, and copies of any revoked, suspended or varied by the Order can be inspected during normal office hours (9.00am-4.00pm Mon-Fri) at the offices of:

Planning Reception Desk

Ground Floor

Barking Town Hall

1 Town Square

Barking IG11 7LU

 

Civic Centre Dagenham

Rainham Road North

Dagenham RM10 7BN

[green_and_mean]

Having had another look at the sign it is wrong because apart from being confusing it states 'waiting not permitted at anytime' that is clearly not the case as you are permitted to load at certain times so the waiting restriction should reflect that.

[ndsolo]

Hi Otterby and Angelwhitea 1, I have also just received a PCN for entering that road.

 

I have sent in my appeal in and will fight the rogues if I have to.

[laminebean]

I have also received a PCN for the same offence. Violation occurred at 22:18 on Monday 19th July 2010. Like yourselves, I wasnt aware that I had entered a pedestrian zone until I received a 60 pound present from Barking and Dagenham council.

 

I am planning to appeal on various grounds: improper and/or confusing signage. There are actually 4 signs within 3 square metres which they expect a motorist to read:

1. Right of way sign (indicating that entering traffic has priority);

2. Speed bump sign

3. 20mph speed restriction sign

4. Pedestrian Zone sign (with somewhat confusing access times)

 

In addition to this there are two visability infringements:

1. Loading bay (when I entered there was a large van parked there) on the left just before the signs

2. A number of lamp posts and other signs which impair visability of the pedestrian zone sign.

 

Anyway, im still furious with this level of cheekiness from the council. Ill keep you all informed of my appeal progress and if it doesnt work out, maybe we should all band together to launch a joint appeal against this travesty.

[solly3670]

Hello all,

 

I have also received a PCN for the same "offence" and was wondering if anyone who has already appealed, has had any success?

 

Unfortunately, I am unable to log in regularly in order to check for responses so would really be greatful if you could please send me an email to my personal email address which is: [email protected]

 

Thanks in advance

Sol

[Minny]

Road Traffic Acts

Transport for London

ROAD TRAFFIC REGULATION ACT 1984

THE LONDON BOROUGH OF BARKING AND DAGENHAM BARKING TOWN CENTRE (PROHIBITION OF DRIVING) ORDER 2010

1. Transport for London on behalf of the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham, hereby gives notice that on 21st January 2010 the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham made the above named Order under sections 6, 124 and Part I to IV of Schedule 9 to Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (as amended) and all other enabling powers. The Order will come into force on the 28th January 2010.

2. The general nature and effect of the Order will be to:

(1) Extend the Pedestrian area of Barking Town Centre to the junctions between Vicarage Drive / Ripple Road and Cambridge Road / Station Parade.

(2) Prohibit vehicles other than East London Transit buses from travelling through the Pedestrian area of Barking town centre with the exception of:

(a) Loading/unloading to frontages along Ripple Road and Station Parade within the Pedestrian area of Barking Town Centre to be carried out between 6.00am – 10:00am and 5:00pm – 7:00pm Mondays to Friday with access to be from Ripple Road only

(b) Access to Vicarage Fields Service Yard A (within Pedestrian Area of Barking Town Centre) from Station Parade only, at any time

© Access to Vicarage Fields Service Yard B (within Pedestrian Area of Barking Town Centre) from Ripple Road only, at any time

3. The roads which would be affected by the Order are roads proposed for the East London Transit Route in the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham.

4. A copy of the Order, together with plans of the area showing the effect of the Order, and copies of any revoked, suspended or varied by the Order can be inspected during normal office hours (9.00am-4.00pm Mon-Fri) at the offices of:

Planning Reception Desk

Ground Floor

Barking Town Hall

1 Town Square

Barking IG11 7LU

 

Civic Centre Dagenham

Rainham Road North

Dagenham RM10 7BN

 

Afternoon all,

 

I'm new to this thread and forum and have been reading with great interest. I presume that your above post Otterby, was copied & pasted from it's source? Because if it's current, then the times stated above don't match what the sign says (going by the sign in the pics you enclosed in an earlier post. 06:00-10:00 as opposed to sign's 06:00-10:30) I'm sure that must go some way to mounting a fairly rigid appeal? My hubby was ticketed in a work vehicle a few weeks ago, but only received the pcn today. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Minny

[angelwhitea1]

Hi Everyone,

 

Just an update on another ticket I was fighting....The damned "Wilton Road diversion" in Victoria, SW1. Got a PCN from Transport for London in May 2010. Appealed, was rejected by Tfl, with a long letter explaining each point and why they disagree. It was 6 pages long! I was asked to appeal to the adjudicators which I did, got my hearing date almost immediately. Today I just got a letter from the Appeals Service informing me that Tfl have decided not to contest my apppeal....A real David and Goliath Story...They did not give me the reasons for the appeal being allowed, I am just so happy and thank you all for your support.

 

Now I am waiting on the Barking appeal...anyone heard anything yet? In the meantime I got another ticket form London Borough of Newham, Newham General Hospital, Glen Road - My son was rushed there last Sunday with a head injury from football..and I had to dash to the hospital. The residents parking allows up to 2 hours free parking, if in a bay. I couldnt find one so parked on the yellow line and was given a ticket after a 3 minute observation by the parking attendant...Waiting for the notice to owner. Any advice.

[Alisonfog]

Hello fellow contraveners!

 

I just got my PCN for entering Ripple Road, had no idea I was entering a pedestrian area, although as I progressed down the road, I did think... erm, this is a bit wierd. I was completely lost at the time and the one way system around Barking only added to my grief!!

Unfortunately, I was away on holiday when the PCN arrived and was shocked on my return to find that I now owe £180!!! Especially as I had absolutely no idea that I had contravened any by-laws in the first place.

Any advice anyone???

[TLC4fdfnet]

Hello all

Guess who just got the same PCN ...

Tomorrow I'll be on my way to Barking to take some pics.

After reading the comments on here I decided to contest the charge as well. Haven't got much time left as the letter took 5 days to get to me, from Barking to Hackney ....

Hope you all get it sorted and don't have to pay.

Fingers crossed

 

Petra

[Alisonfog]

Hi Petra,

 

Go for it!!

 

Unfortunately, because I missed the dates, I didn't seem to have any option left apart from paying up!! (I was threatened with bayliffs etc). So Barking and Dagenham council got their hands on my hard earned £180, ouch, ouch, ouch!! The signage was and is completely useless. I did send a letter (that of course was completely ignored) but I thought the least I could do was to have a moan.

 

If people keep contesting their PCNs it can only help! Good luck to you Petra, would love to hear how you get on..... and has anybody got anywhere yet??

 

Alison

[starfarer]

I'm taking name "Barking" off from TomTom! Goodness!!!!

[babyonlyne]

hahaha well aint that something. nice post! barking is atrocious for pcns, lived here 2 yrs now & received about 6 over that time but aint paid one yet

 

 

doesnt the sign, contradict the TRO (thought they were called TMO's -traffic management orders, what does TRO stand for). because it states, (a) Loading/unloading to frontages along Ripple Road and Station Parade within the Pedestrian area of Barking Town Centre to be carried out between 6.00am – 10:00am and 5:00pm – 7:00pm Mondays to Friday with access to be from Ripple Road only

 

but sign included SAT and even the times allowed dont match...:S

Edited October 1, 2010 by babyonlyne