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Deposit being withheld. Please advise

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Ok this is a long one...so apologies for the info thrown at you whislt reading it!!

 

27th Feb 2009: Tenancy agreed and deposit paid £475

 

8th Mar 2009 received paperwork from landlord re deposit secured with mydeposits

 

26th May 2010 Tenancy ended and told deposit would be returned less cleaning bill for carpet as soon as they received utility bills for the property showing nothing was owed. Remarks of "kitchen is cleaner than when you first moved in" are noted

 

20th June 2010: Mr Agent writes a letter saying kitchen needs cleaning.

 

20th June: Mr tenant refute the cleaning bill in writing and ask for a receipt for the cleaning of the carpet

 

21st June: Agent responds saying he will waiver the fee for kitchen but he refuses to answer the question

 

Emails exchange between tenant ad agent explain it is his right to see a bill for something he is deducting from the deposit

 

He then emails saying as tenant didnt agree with the cleaning bill for the carpet he has now been told by a carpet cleaner that the carpet needs renewing and tenant am liable for the whole amount

 

At no point did tenant contest the cleaning bill, as track marks were visable after they had wheeled pram into the dining room over time.

 

29th June 2010: Deposit is placed back in a scheme but with DPS now. All details are going to be sent to the address tenants moved out of!

 

Now this is where it gets messy. Today the tenants give me a letter was sent to the tenants 15th Febuary 2010 from mydeposits.com which informs the tenants the deposit cert has been cancelled by the agent and will expire within 90 days from 27th January...which is 27th April 2010.

 

In April 2010 the tenants guarantor has personla issues and can no longer be the guarantor. He write to the Agent middle of April to inform him.

 

15th April 2010 tenants receive a letter from Agents saying they have till 27th April 2010 to find another guarantor otherwise they will issue a notice to leave.

 

27th April 2010 Miss tenant went to Agents and paid months rent and gave 1 months notice.

 

26th May 2010 the tenants vacate the property

 

My thinking is:

 

* that the deposit was not secured from January 2010 even though there was no intention at that point of the tenants leaving the property.

 

* The tenants do not have to pay for a carpet as the agreement was to have it cleaned not replaced

 

* The agent had no right to place the deposit back in a scheme after the tenants had left the property and left the agents

 

All advice gladly accepted


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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It is possible that DPS will "protect" the deposit even if the depost was protected improperly. Or they will reject the deposit once they learn the circumstances.

 

I suggest you raise a dispute with them to see what they do.

 

Maybe also write to the agent in the strongest possible terms saying that you will issue a court claim for 3x deposit unless full deposit is returned in full and final settlement.

 

If DPS refuse to adjudicate when they fully understand the details, you have good evidence for a claim for failure to protect the deposit.

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Can the tenants use the Housing Act as an argument to ask the landlord for 3 times the amount before going to court?

 

Should they go to DPS first or straight to court? Will it go against them for not going thru DPS first? Or is the fact the deposit was not protected enough to go straight to court with?

 

Thanks!!


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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BUMPED.....has anone got any advice??


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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ok quick update

 

DPS have confirmed dep placed with them 5 weeks AFTER tenancy ended after being taken out of security 5 months earlier!!

 

Mr Agent has sent messages with a threatening undertone...all of which have been saved! He told tenant to take the dep minus carpet cleaning or this will "get messy". Needless to say Mr tenant has not taken it!

 

Claim form completed ready to take to court under The Housing Act re none secured deps....lets see how smug he is after he has to pay 3 x dep plus dep back. I really want to be the one to serve papers on him....oh to be a fly on the wall! L/L thought he would get away with bullying a young couple in their first home together..how wrong he is!


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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Caselaw seems to suggest that now the deposit is protected, the x3 'fine' wont be awarded and your claim might be stuck out before it even reaches your day in court.

 

The best way forwad would probably now be to use the scheme arbitration if you disagree with the deductions for carpet cleaning.

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Ok another update tooday.

 

 

Mr Agent had till 6th to file acknowledgement...which he did at 3pm! He now has 14 days in which to place his defence to the court.

In the meantime he has gone to the scheme the deposit is now with (even though the enancy no longer exists and didnt when he placed it with them) and released some of the deposit. He did this on the day he filed his acknowledgement.

Solicitor friend suggests by his actions he has conceded the claim and not to accept the deposit back at this point.

Both the old scheme and new scheme have confirmed te dates the deposit was placed and taken out with a number of months between it being taken out of the 1st scheme and being placed in the 2nd.

 

Have decided to take this all the way....if no one stands up against these bullies aand takes the chance then the law will continue to be abused....will update as and when!


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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Even if you lose on the 3x deposit penalty, you should make sure that you point out that failing to protect the deposit within 14 days is in breach of the Housing Act and that therefore you should be entitled to all your costs.

 

You could still consider offering to settle for a compromise figure.

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Even if you lose on the 3x deposit penalty, you should make sure that you point out that failing to protect the deposit within 14 days is in breach of the Housing Act and that therefore you should be entitled to all your costs. But surely if the Housing Act has been breached it is very clear the penalty to the landlord / agent is 3x the amount of the deposit??

 

You could still consider offering to settle for a compromise figure.

 

What are your views on this? As far as I am aware the law is quite clear on deposits being secured. If it is not secured for the whole of the tenancy then the agent is in breach. I cannot see another argument to this...altho I am open to suggestions.


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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The way the law seems to be being interpreted, the 3x penalty requires the breach to be of a specific type - namely that the deposit remains

unprotected at the time of the case. This means that LLs may get away with the 3x penalty by protecting the deposit late.

 

But even though they have protected the deposit late, they are still in breach of the law that says that it should be protected within 14 days. So you should be entitled to your costs. I am not a lawyer - this was the advice/suggestion from a lawyer at a legal website.

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Thanks Steve..I see your point. Its a shame its open for interpretation as this can often result in grey area's.

 

What are your thoughts on the fact:

1. Mr Agent only placed the deposit in a scheme once he realised there was going to be a case to answer?

2. The deposit was secured a full month after the tenancy had ended

 

Thanks for your help...its really appreciated


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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Good luck mrsfoot, i will be watching this thread with interest :-)


I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you! :p

 

 

I have been smoke-free for 4yrs

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Update

 

Have received Mr Agenst defence. In it he claims he moved the deposit from one scheme to another with immedite effect....et I have evidemce that it was 5 months later. In the event the Judge agrees the deposit was secure (even though it was not in a scheme) then I am going for them breaching the HA based on the prescribed information not being given to the tenant within 14 days.

 

The defence is funny...he claims:

1. We didnt agree to the cleaning of the carpet...even tho we have written proff we did at different times

2. The deposit was protected by scheme 1 from begin of tenancy, then scheme 2 from the day the tenancy begins, even though when it wa placed in the 2nd scheme the tenanc had ended

3. We have no evidence of the deposit being moved out of scheme 1 and placed into scheme 2....even though we have had written confirmaion from both schemes for the start and end date for protection.

 

We now have AQ to complete. I am not admitting to having the evidence of the date it was placed into scheme 2 until the ver last minute...I want him to lie to the Judge during the hearing!

 

If we win this case...and I know its only IF...but I hope this will support others going thru the same thing AND b using the naional press it will give other Agents a warning that tenants cannot be messed about.


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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Meant to ask a question:

 

1. Should I make a part 18 request for a copy of the inventory ( my son has lost his copy :| )

2. Would it be wrong for me to go to the house they rented from Agent and take pics to prove the carpet has not been cleaned. He is saing it has been but the tenants who live there now say it hasnt...or would it be detrimental to the case?

3. Would another, more reputable Agent, be ok to write a witness statement for the court giveng a detailed descritption of what should happen to a deposit?

4. Are emails from the deposit scheme 1 and 2 ok as evidence or wuld it be better for them to be in writing (headed note paper)

 

Thanks guys x


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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Ok..another update just in case anyone is reading this thread!

 

AQ issued and completed. Mr Agent has failed to return his (1 week overdue) and so the case is going to the Judge without theirs....unless the court allows a really late one!

 

As it happens..the new tenant of the property is the daughter of a friend who is willing to let us take pics to prove there has been no new carpet (as Mr Agent is now stating). Too much?? Possible problems with that?

 

Thanks, any comments appreciated!


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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Hi i'm still reading lol and am really hoping you win this case especially the possibility of winning a precedent case on the TDS scheme.

It doesn't seem right to me for landlords to not protect the deposits from the beginning (as required by law) and then get away with it just because they protect when they know they are being taken to court, we need a judge with some balls (and commonsense) to rule on this one.

It would be great if that were to happen, surely it must happen to someone one day and i hope it's you if only for your tenacity and sheer determination!

Photographic evidence is always a plus, always assuming LL will turn up to defend.

Good luck! :-)


I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you! :p

 

 

I have been smoke-free for 4yrs

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The problem we have callumsgran is the agent protected the deposit in the prescribed 14 days. It was only after 10 months he decided to cancel the insurance scheme it was protected with. He failed to place it wth another scheme until the tenants said they wanted assistance from the deposit scheme (due to the agent wanting to keep a chunk of money). Once he knew it was being questoned he placed it back into a scheme...but this was AFTER the tenance ended!

 

I hope the court sees this agent for what he is. We have a number of other ex tenants who had deposits unlawfully withheld (before TDS unfortunately) so he is known for this. Only wish we had known about him before the tenants took the property.


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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How did he get it out of the protected scheme?

How can he get it out without a valid reason?

Surely this itself needs looking into?


I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you! :p

 

 

I have been smoke-free for 4yrs

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How did he get it out of the protected scheme?

How can he get it out without a valid reason?

Surely this itself needs looking into?

 

It was in an insurance based policy and he just cancelled the policy...which he was perfectly ntitled to do. What he failed to do was place it back into a scheme!

Thats why were are taking this all the way. I want the Judge to say he cant deal with it and refer us to a higher court. I did it with swift (who were bigger and harder than this agent) and I beat them so I'm not worried.

Edited by mrsfoot
Late night spelling!

All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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Great! Fingers crossed for you :wink::wink:


I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you! :p

 

 

I have been smoke-free for 4yrs

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Well here is the update for this case

 

In short WE WON!!

 

Mr Agent has to pay 3 times the amount of the deposit plus return the deposit.

 

Number of points went in the tenants favour.

 

1.The defendant failed to send a bundle into the court

2. The defendant failed to show to the hearing

3. The defendant didnt send in any form of witness statement / letter to rely on in his absence

 

The Judge made the following comments

 

1. The deposit should have been protected for the whole of the tenancy

2. The defendant should have informed the tenant when the protection policy was cancelled

3. The defendant should have placed the deposit back into a scheme an informed the tenant

4. The defendant should have given the prescribed information of the new policy within 14 days as per HA.

5. The defendant tried to cover his actions by inferring to DPS that the tenancy was still in situe, when in fact it had ended some weeks earlier

6. The defendant failed to adhere to court orders for swapping documents he was to rely on within the set timescale

7. The defendant failed to attend the hearing to provide any verbal statement to show his actions were simply misplaced rather than purposeful

 

An order has been made for 3 times the dep plus return of dep. We dont expect this to end here. We expect the defendant to fail to pay and so involve the bailiffs....I only hope he realises that if a CCA is placed against him and his business he is unable to work as financial advisor NOR have a streamline machine for debit card payments (apparently you must have whiter than white credit history for this). I will, of course, update as and when!


All advice is based on my experiences. I am NOT qualified and as such cannot be held responsible for any mistakes. If in doubt...get professional help.

If you like what i have said then make me a star!!

Some helpful links

I have been successful in many cases..here are links to some

Housing Act and deposits: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266260-Deposit-being-withheld.-Please-advise&highlight=

Against Natwest: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278646-N-west-v-Mrsfoot-s-Son.-***WON_ALL-CHARGES-REFUNDED***&highlight=

Against Swift Advances: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?46576-Me-V-Swift&highlight=

Against B&Q: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?172878-Me-vs-B-amp-Q&highlight=

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Great news! Its really good to see that unscrupulous agents aren't able to get away with type of behaviour. Best of luck with the enforcement, and please do carry on keeping us updated :)

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Great news mrsfoot :razz::cheer2::high5:


I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you! :p

 

 

I have been smoke-free for 4yrs

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Just found this thread- excellent news well done.

 

Now just wait 21 days for them to cough, then let slip the dogs of war ie: Scary Barry the bailiff!

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