County Court Claim for Hired Space. HELP

[smooch]

Hi not sure if this is the correct forum? Please direct me otherwise.

 

Am I right in thinking that to bring a claim, the judge needs full particulars??

 

By that I mean, a signed booking form, terms of use etc?

 

 

Background:

Space was rented for a function I did. I was not invoiced but obviously agreed to pay. After discussion about the correct amount (there was confusion over the exact dates & times), an amount was agreed, signed for and £x was to be paid monthly. I began making payments by physically going to the premises but stopped due to finances. I am unable to find this agreement- I know, I know!

 

Issue:

-I have received a court claim for outstanding invoices amounting to more than what I think was agreed. No interest is added.

-The claim has been sent to my friends home (not sure how this happened)

-Within the PoC they ONLY note invoice numbers- some of these invoices do not have any address and only my name. Only one has my name but my friends address.

-I think what we agreed monthly amount is less than they are claiming (but I cannot find this agreement) but they have not included it in the PoC.

Questions:

1. Although technically I have not received this court claim (it was sent to my friends house), should I acknowledge and send a defence?

2. Can they issue a judgement to an address I have never lived at or have had no correspondence sent to?

3. Can they freeze my account even though they have the wrong address, BUT with the claim are copies of my cheques with my account details on them.

4. Do the company not need a booking form of sorts on which to make this claim, I don’t remember completing one. It is not added to the PoC.

5. Can the company add evidence later i.e. the booking form, the agreement I can’t find at a hearing or does it need to be included in the PoC?

Your thoughts please, Urgently needed as the clock is ticking!!

Many thanks

 

[smooch]

I looked up the small claims procedure and noticed that once a judgement has been made (in my absence if I don't attend due to being addressed to my friend) the company can file for a third party order that could then lead to a freezing of my account. -Will a bank/building society allow access even though they have the wrong initial address?? I have read that DCA's sometimes use this tactic to find your correct details.

 

I have also just read that in order to recover a debt (not sure if this is only for loans, credit agreements etc.), three letters should be sent to the debtor

• A reminder letter
  
• A letter before action
  
• A particulars of claim
  

My friend said they have never received any of these type letters. Am i right to be anxious about the freezing of my account now as they can seemingly get this order if I don't attend court due to them having an incorrect address and then receiving a judgement in default???

 

 

***help***

[smooch]

I have found out that;

Businesslink states:

Invoicing and payment terms

Information that invoices must contain

 

All invoices should clearly state that this is what they are with the word "invoice".

They should also include the following:

 

• a unique identification number
  
• your company name, address and contact information
  
• the company name and address of the customer you are invoicing**
  
• a clear description of what you are charging for
  
• the date the goods or service were provided (supply date)
  
• the date of the invoice
  
• the amount(s) being charged
  
• VAT amount if applicable
  
• the total amount owed
  

In addition, if you are a limited company, sole trader and/or VAT registered, the law requires you to provide certain information on any invoices you send to your customers.

 

 

**The invoices are marked with all info except ANY address details and amount owed! ...so can they use this invoice as part of their claim? Is this a legal requirement??

[smooch]

Another thought!

what if my friend returns the claim stating 'unknown'?? albeit opened!

[smooch]

Details of claim state: "monies owed"

and

PoC state: invoice numbers

 

they've attached the invoices and some cheques paid.

 

given the above posts, IF i defend; i'm thinking (i don't have a clue, purely based on what i've read here)

-return claim form as 'unknown' ?? (still unsure, as they have my acc details)

-if i return it, CPR re: original booking, other info.

-replead for vague claim details & PoC

 

 

please, somebody help me!!!

[citizenB]

Another thought!

what if my friend returns the claim stating 'unknown'?? albeit opened!

 

Hmmm, this might look rather suspicious if they were to do that.

 

I think you need to know the following:

 

Why are they writing and issuing claims to an address that has never been provided to them ?

 

You need a copy of the agreement that you signed (the claimant should have a copy of that)

 

You need a full accounting of how they have arrived at the monies they are claiming are owed.

 

I will move you to the legal issues section to see if you attract more help especially as a claim has been issued against you.

 

We will need some information from you.

 

From where was the claim issued.. your local county court or from the Northampton Bulk Processing Centre.

 

What is the date of issue on the claim form there are certain timescales you must stick to.

 

If the claim was issued out of Northampton then you have the following.

 

Date of issue + 5 days for service

then + a further 14 days to acknowledge, plus a further 14 days to enter a defence.

 

If it has been issued out of a local county court then I think the date of service is different, and it may even have a date by which you need to respond.

 

You need to write to the company and ask for any information you require. But you can only ask for information that is mentioned in the claim form.

 

So can you tell us what they say they are claiming for. You will find that information on the left hand side of the court form .. Particulars of Claim.

 

Have a read of the following two threads that has template letters which you may be able to adapt for your use.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241827-legal-action-how-start.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/255329-cpr-18-cpr-31-a.html

 

Once you have answered the questions above, perhaps we can advise further.

[citizenB]

Have also flagged your thread for attention of the site team.

[smooch]

Hi Citizen, thanx.

 

The claim is stamped with "20th May" from a local court

 

The particulars state "invoices. [invoice no.s] xxxxx, xxxx, ....

They have attached photocopies of these as well some cheques I paid previously. There is no address on the invoices, but only my name!

 

I've been reading the posts, but the initial question of how to respond to a claim that in theory I know nothing about??

 

Is there a prospect of freezing my account??

[citizenB]

Well now if that is exactly what is said on the claim form, it is pretty vague.

 

The particulars state "invoices. [invoice no.s] xxxxx, xxxx, ....

 

Until a judgement has been passed, and only if they succeed in their claim, then they can do nothing about freezing your account.

 

Right, you dont say whether the claim was issued from a local court or Northampton.

 

If is Northampton then you can acknowledge service online and that should be done by 8th June. If you are going to defend then you will click the button for extra time.

 

If a local court then you need to acknowledge service on the form and return it to the local court by the time stated.

 

I am still rather confused as to where they got your friends address from and why they would assume that you would be receiving post at that address.

 

Obviously you will now need to let them know your current address for service of documents. .

 

But you also need more information and the only way you are going to get that is to write to them.

[smooch]

The claim is from a local court.

 

going through the photocopies, i've seen that they have cheques from my friend business account! He helped with some payments- perhaps they got it from there. I don't remember signing a booking form with his address though or any form at all for that matter. Another reason for the disputed invoices.

 

Can they add further documents/info later?

 

Is it likely a judge to preside over this kind of claim? i.e. no booking form, no address on invoices, wrong address etc. If so, then it would mean a default judgement,

-would a bank allow access based on an incorrect address?

 

To avoid default (if a judge would do so based on their info) should I simply write to them asking for relevant information?

 

Is the onus not on them to have correct details?

Edited May 24, 2010 by smooch

[citizenB]

YOu are getting ahead of yourself.

 

You MUST acknowledge receipt of the claim form.

 

You MUST obtain more information. Ie the booking form/agreement, all invoices etc.

 

You can only obtain that by writing to the company under CPR31.14. Please read the links I gave you earlier on.

 

When you acknowledge at the court and this needs to be done by post or physically, then I suggest you enclose a covering letter, addressed to the court manager, saying that this claim form has been issued at an address at which you do not and have never lived. If this hadnt been a friends address then you would not have received the claim form.

 

If the amount of the claim is less than £5,000 then this will almost certainly be heard in small claims and yes a Judge will preside.. but it could be lower level judge.

 

They should provide you with any document that they intend to rely on in court and if they havent already mentioned ie in a defence/witness statement or their claim then they shouldnt be able to use it at a court hearing.

 

If/WHen you reply to their claim by way of a defence then they have the opportunity to respond and can include further information at that time. You then too get the opportunity to respond further.

 

You could if you wish enter a defence such as the following...

 

 

IN THE XXXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

CLAIM NUMBER XXXXXXXX

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

COMPANY TAKING YOU TO COURT

Claimant

And

SMOOCH

Defendant

 

 

 

DEFENCE

1. The particulars of claim discloses no cause of action and are self evidently an abuse of process, in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR

2. Further to that above the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

Then send a copy of the defence to the Claimant's solicitor (or claimant if not using one) along with the following letter

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

 

 

' Herewith copy defence by way of service, the same having been filed with the court.

Please serve amended particulars of claim and plead your client's case in an appropriate manner within 7 days, so that I am aware of the case I will have to meet at trial. I request that you attach to the particulars a copy of the agreement upon which the claimant relies. The matter will be heard in my home court and the claimant will have to produce the document, in any event.

Failure to provide that requested in the time period provided for will result in application to the court. I confirm a copy of this letter will be produced to the court when the question of costs falls to be decided'.

 

 

Personally, I would try and obtain information first... but it has to be your choice.

 

HTH

[smooch]

Gee Thanx.

claim is

 

I've just noticed that the PoC state: (attached)(to follow)! invoice & cheques attached

Doesn't this mean that further information WILL follow or is this a tactic?? Do they not need to supply full particulars before I take action?

 

Some posts suggest that this is a tactic, that although stated nothing ever arrives!

Edited May 24, 2010 by smooch

[smooch]

so... chronology reads;

 

*letter to company requesting more information (and update of details?)

-or-

-acknowledgement of claim

-letter to court informing them of incorrect address

-request futher information via CPR from company (letter above)

-follow CPR protocol as your suggested threads

 

If I enter defence directly, it would exactly the latter part of your post?

Edited May 24, 2010 by smooch

[steven4064]

I would like to make several points:

 

1. even without the booking form I suspect they would have no difficulty in proving that a contract existed (contracts can be verbal and still be binding). For example they could produce invoices for food/drinks provided for the function, etc.

 

2. Your only defence probably is that the amount claimed is not what you agreed. The booking form would help here. If they kept a copy, you could ask for it as part of the procedings - you should mention that they didn't supply it and that you need it to produce an adequate defence. However, for a small claims case, they didn't have to produce it.

 

I would suggest you respond saying you deny part of the claim on the basis that you have paid £x of the amount yet the amount claimed is still more than the total amount you agreed - give the figures. Ask the court to get the claimant to provide a copy of the booking form and a statement of account as this is the only way to establish how much is actually owed. Tell them that this is the only way to achieve the overriding objective

[smooch]

steven: bear with me, I'm a little confused!

 

1. there are no other invoices other than what they have stated- if there are, they are fabricated. Is the booking form not the equivalent of a credit agreement!? and therefore the basis on which they would bring this claim? w/out this, would they not have to rely on hearsay & witnesses evidence? eg. if I say I wasn't there, they say I was! How does this pan out??

 

2. Did you mean they don't need to produce the booking form initially or until a CPR request? If so, what is the whole point of the PoC section if they can just add items at the hearing? (rant & a question)

 

on some further points on which I am unclear.

 

3. PoC state (attached)(to follow). My understanding is that there will be more info. to follow and no action need be taken until such time. (before 14 day deadline) If nothing is received, then what?

 

4. the invoices have no address! i keep harping on, but whats the bottom line?

 

5. claim form sent to wrong (my friends) address, i keep harping on, but whats the bottom line?

 

Seems i am destined to respond. If so, is the above chronology suitable??

[steven4064]

See below

steven: bear with me, I'm a little confused!

 

1. there are no other invoices other than what they have stated- if there are, they are fabricated. Is the booking form not the equivalent of a credit agreement!? and therefore the basis on which they would bring this claim? w/out this, would they not have to rely on hearsay & witnesses evidence? eg. if I say I wasn't there, they say I was! How does this pan out??

Booking form is not the same as a credit agreement. Yours is a case of simple contract - and it doesn't have to be in writing. If a written agreement does exist then the civil procedure rules say it should be attached to the claim. However, I have never seen a court enforce that. If there are no invoices then it is your word against theirs. They can produce a witness statement saying you owe the money. You can do one saying the agreed price was such and such, different to what they say.

 

2. Did you mean they don't need to produce the booking form initially or until a CPR request? If so, what is the whole point of the PoC section if they can just add items at the hearing? (rant & a question)

 

I don't think a court would necessariliy make them produce it at all, unfortunately. If it is small claims, there is no mechanism to order them to produce it (Parts 18 and 31 of the CPR do not apply). I suspect that both sides would have to rely on witness statements in this case - unless you can find the booking form.

 

on some further points on which I am unclear.

 

3. PoC state (attached)(to follow). My understanding is that there will be more info. to follow and no action need be taken until such time. (before 14 day deadline) If nothing is received, then what?

 

It is amazing how little a court will accept as a valid POC. I wouldn't bank on anything else coming.

 

4. the invoices have no address! i keep harping on, but whats the bottom line?

 

the bottom line is the court will accept what it considers to be the most likely. The fact that they have no address ought to make a difference but I doubt whether it would unless you lied and said "I never booked this room..." That, of course would be a criminal offence and easily disproved since you already made some payments. Sorry, but courts are a law to themselves and will believe what they consider the most likely.

 

5. claim form sent to wrong (my friends) address, i keep harping on, but whats the bottom line?

 

Same answer as above, really

 

Seems i am destined to respond. If so, is the above chronology suitable??

 

You need to acknowledge before the data given. You acknowledge that you have a debt but don't agree with the amount. Respond along those lines by acknowledging only part of the debt. For your defence, tell the story you told us in a witness statment.

[smooch]

Thanx, much appreciated.

so the wrong address bit; is it a case of knowing i had a debt and making efforts to get in touch and not necessarily the other way around?

[smooch]

ok. pill swallowed & digested.

 

Thanx, once again.

[smooch]

if i admit to part of the claim will I still receive a CCJ?

[JonCris]

Yes

[smooch]

what do I do about the incorrect address.

Supply this on the form or send a letter to the court or both?

What if I use my friends address?

[smooch]

can the company agree to me paying in instalments without now going to court/hearing?

[steven4064]

They could so agree - it is up to them. If not, you can ask the court for a time order - ie to be able to pay by installments

[smooch]

thanx 4064: how would I go about the 'time order'... again, does this mean the CCJ is applied in the meantime?

[smooch]

looking through CPR: the claim form states a value and not a statement of value! is this significant??