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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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No gas bill for 5 years


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Moved into a newbuild 5 years ago. Contacted gas and electric to set up accounts. Heard nothing from Scottish Gas so phoned again, they said they had no record of me. Gave details again and was told they did not supply me. Was told to wait for bill and could then transfer over to them. Some months later and still no bill from anyone, contacted Scottish Gas again and again they said they had no record of me and did not supply me. We are now 5 years down the line and have never received a bill until last week. Received a Scottish Gas letter with my address but my neighbours name on it. I gave it back to the postman. next morning I received a bill and letter from Scottish Gas addressed the The Occupier saying that I need to contact them to set up my account. A bill enclosed for £800 dating from March 09 to March 10. Also stated that bills had been paid until Mar09 and they assume I moved in then. Am now wondering if they have been billing my neighbour for my gas! Someone came to read the meter about 3 years ago and said the meter number was not recorded and he would look into it but again heard nothing. Don't know what to do, contact SG to set up account and pay bill or let them know I have not had a bill for 5 years and think I may have been shipperless? What would the situation be if thay have been billing a neighbour and not me but can't imagine how that would be as it would still be my address on the bill surely. Neighbour in question does not live in corresponding plot number of our house either.

Can anyone give any insight into this.

Edited by confusedami
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Newbuild again!! I have written this post for gas supplies only but electric supplies are just the same.

 

First thing to do is to ring National Grid. Have ready your correct postal address and your meter number. Ask them who supplies your property and ask for the MPAN number.

 

It is fairly likely they will have a problem with the address! Less likely but not rare is incorrectly recorded meter numbers and this can be a very real problem in apartment blocks. If they have your correct address on their database ask them when they changed it from the plot address.

 

(Do the same for electricity but make a separate call. You are looking for errrors before they correct them.)

 

When a builder wants a gas supply for a property he first contacts a distributer - usually National Grid. The distributer owns all the pipework up to and including the meter. If it possible to supply gas to the property National grid fits the pipework and the meter. NG sit in offices so they use agents to fit the pipework etc. If the builder has the correct qualifications it is common for NG to use him as an agent to do the work. The builder gives the address of the property and the meter number. NG records this on their computer database and gives the meter an MPAN number. Then it is up to the builder to choose a supplier - the utility who reads the meter and bills and expects payment - in your case ?Scottish gas. The builder will supply the address and the meter number to the supplier who will contact NG to tell them they are supplying and then commence billing the builder.

 

Fine so far but how can it all go wrong?

 

Address.

 

The address on NG's and the supplier's data base is that given by the builder and to start with it will be a 'plot number' address used by the builder to identify the property. At some time usually before the property is sold the Royal Mail get into the act and give the property a full postal address and this may be completely different from the builder's address.

 

Meter number.

 

Not surprisingly the builder who has fitted the meter somtimes makes errors when giving this information to NG.

 

NG do not seem to make any checks (nor do the suppliers) so it is quite possible that everything goes wrong thereafter and the utilities do not appear to have the systems in place to pick up these problems.

 

In your case you would have given Scottish Power your postal addrees. They only have the plot number address so they cant find you. They may have asked you for your meter number or MPAN number but it is unlikely you had these to hand so nothing happened . No change when you rang again later.

 

The rest of your story can be explained by a meter numbering problem as well as the address problem. The obvious solution is for NG and the suppliers to make checks of the correct address and meter numbers on-site but they say that 'we cannot do this'. There may be problems all over the estate particularly if there are apartment blocks.

 

It needs sorting -but that is their problem not yours. If you do ring them make sure they have the correct address meter and MPAN numbers and that these are correct on the bill i.e. is a bill for your property. No harm in setting up an account if all these are correct but do not let them apply incorrect information to the account. You may not have to pay for any gas that you have used since moving in !!

 

Are the meter readings on the bill estimated? Are they consistent with your actual meter reading?

  • Haha 1
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Hi, thanks for replying.

Yes the meter reading was estimated but was quite near the actual reading. Have been in touch with Scottish Gas and set up an account to pay the outstanding bill. My fear is that this bill was only for a year and I will receive another one for the other four years as I'd read that newbuilds aren't covered by the backbilling rule. I will contact NG to see if I can verify who supplies me. BG told me that they have supplied this meter since 2005 when the house was built.

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new builds aren't covered by the Back Billing Code? that can't be right? I'm sure I've read several cases of new builds and no one metioned this. Am in simillar situation btw, only with electricity. Non one registered my metre, just found out after 5 years as am about to move out!

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Newbuilds are covered by the billing code.

 

Ringing NG is crucial as what you will have to pay depends on whether or not there is a MPAN number for your meter.

 

No MPAN number will mean that you only pay from thr date you set up the account. This unlikely as SG and NG will likely have got their story straight by now. In this case NG makes the loss.

 

If their is a MPAN number then the billing code will apply and SG will be the loser of all but the year before the bill.

 

Check your bill

 

 

a) Is it for the correct meter? The meter number must be on your bill. They appear not to have taken a meter reading fom the correct meter for five years. If this is the case you will not even have to pay the year that they have billed.

 

b) Is the first meter reading on your bill also estimated? This is very likely as though you have had a meter reader that was before the start of this bill and there was a problem then ? correct meter. That will mean that the year's usage is a complete guess and should be challenged.

 

 

c) SG or is it BG? You have used both.

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Make sure that the meter serial number is registered to your property. More than likley this is not the case. In the complex where we were living an old lady got a demand for nealry £2000 gas usage. the only problem was that she never had a gas supply.

We were getting horrendously high gas bills and the readings were way out although we were phoning them in every month. Turned out that they were reading the wrong gas meter. The meter serial numbers had been mixed up when the gas was installed.

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Hi sorry for confusion. It's Scottish Gas.

I will call NG tomorrow. Meter number is definately mine, but think this must have just been changed as I know someone who worked for SG a couple of years ago and they checked for me and told me I was unregistered, so do you think they have just made the connection?

I will ask if there is a MPAN number relating to this meter number and depending on the answer do I just contact SG and say I wish to challenge this bill? All meter readings are estimated, so how do I challenge the bill for the year.

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As you haven't had a bill for 5 years I guess you are unable to check the meter serial number on the bill. By law they are supposed to read the meter at least once every 2 years. When asking for the MPAN number related to the meter serial number also ask for the address of the MPAN.

Keep us updated please.

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UPDATE

 

Called National Grid and they state they have no registered supplier at my address and cannot supply an MPAN number. She told me choose a supplier of my choice. I told her that SG had sent a letter to say they supplied me and she told me that is not correct.

How do I progress now? Any ideas.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

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Go onto one of the comparison sites via MoneySavingExpert and pick a supplier that offers you the best deal. We used energyhelpline comparison site and got a £15 cashback after one month. We were with Atlantic when we had gas and I have to say that the CS` is superior to any other.

BGAS are the cheapest if you want to put up with endless hassles every month. Even if SG state they supply you, ther is nothing stopping you switching suppliers anyway.

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Problem is the £800 bill, what do I do about that and the fact that they said they needed a payment that day and I paid £100. Do I tell them that I dispute the fact I owe them anything at all as I have been told I have no supplier?

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Yes dispute it and ask them to prove that they are registered to your meter serial number and not MPAN. Also ask for the £100 immediate refund if they cannot verify that they are the supplier otherwsie it is fraud. Also ask the date on which the meter serial number was registered to them. Once you have this ask why National grid have no supplier registered from that date.

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Been onto SG again and they insist they supply me. Gave me a MPR number, so called NG again and they say it was private company that laid the gas pipes and they would never have that info. Only Xoserve would have it and the only people that have access to Xoserve is the gas suppliers and I should take it that SG are the supplier. Have set up a DD with SG but should I inform them that I have been in the house for 5 years as they seem to think it is one and that someone else lived here before that. I think the meter numbers for the seven properties in this street are crossed somehow?

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With you now. Ours was also an independent distributor and the housing association registered all our metering to Southern. Unfortunatley several meters were allocated to wrong addresses and this caused a great deal of confusion. Have you taken any readings recently and have they supplied you with any readings. Generally Southern read our meter twice a year.

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Ami, your account will definitely fall under the billing code, they can only bill you for one year prior to the first correct bill, you need to write to them and provide the correct details to enable the account to be corrected; do not pay anything until the bill has been reduced under the billing code as the supplier can off-set payments against what they would knock-off

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Gas industry regulators.

 

National Grid: UK Gas Distribution

 

The first time you rang NG you were told that nobody supplied your address.

 

The second time you rang you were told that the pipes were put in by XOserve who were therefore the distributor and incidentally would not answer your queries. These people laying pipes and independent distributors!?? Until 01/05/2005 thery were a department of NG! At that time amongst other functions they took over the databases of the other distribitors to make one central reference database. You can access this by ringing them on a O870 number - not exactly what you were told.

 

Having read the above references do you not smell a damage limitation exercise going on. If you were not registered with NG then NG would lose the cost of the gas you have and will use until you do register correctly. If SG can recover for five+ years nobody loses. If SG can recover 1+ years (billing code) then NG only loses 4 years gas. Either way collusion between NG and SG means that something is recovered. You have NGs first reponse and I would be sure that this is correct - you were not registered at that time. NG would have used XoServe's database. So your second contact is fantasy and you are being conned. It is alleged that the suppliers are at loggerheads but these people will talk to the devil where money is concerned. Remember that when you first contacted SG they siad they had no record of you -when did they suddenly find you -I would suggest just before the first bill otherwise you would have been billed sooner.

 

You ask what you should do about the £800 of which you have paid £100. The first thing to do is to cancel your direct debit mandate at your bank. Otherwise it is quite likely you will find they will take the whole £700 from your bank account in one go which could be embarrassing for you.

 

If you agree that the £700 owing is correct then ask them for a reasonable instalment plan paid by standing order. Even if you feel you should not pay anything (as I do) you may be heartily sick of all this and take the line of least resistance and pay up.

 

Otherwise keep investigating.

 

You have never stated whether the start reading given on the bill they have sent you is an estimate. If so the whole bill is a total guestimate. They realise that they are supplying you and send a first bill at that time -on what do they base their figures?

 

Should you inform them that you have been in the house 5 years? No what good will that do? The 4 years they have not billed you for is not recoverable so why provoke a possible bill for the whole five years. The fact that they have not billed you until now proves to me that you were not registered. It would be interesting to find out who they consider was living in your house during the four years that they think you were not.

 

One of your problems is that your communication both with NG and SG has been by phone which can be denied. Why not get proper evidence by writing to them and refusing to talk on the phone?

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Pelham

Independent Gas Transporters (IGTs) have nothing at all to do with National Grid. To recognise an IGT site, your MPR (Meter Point Reference) will start with 74, 75, 76 or 77, possibly 78 too.

 

These companies have no connection at all with National Grid, apart from NG have the contract to deal with any emergencies. If your property is an IGT site, quite often the additional cost levied by the IGT company is passed on to the consumer.

 

National Grid will have no reference to these sites in their databases, such as Rainbow and XoServe, they are listed on sites called Envoy or GTC, which are only accessible by the supplier or the company who owns the distribution rights, such as Sterling Gas Ltd for example.

 

Completely agree with you regarding writing in a letter of complaint and pointing out that the account falls under the billing code, and as such any charges older than one year will not be paid.

 

Hope this makes it a bit clearer as they are awkward things to understand!

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Meter was read for the first time in March 10.

What was the outcome of your meter issues?

Nottslad is totally correct and offers good advice. With us it turned out that our metering was associated with a gas MPAN for flat 76 whilst we were flat 2. The metering at flat 76 was associated with some other flat which did not have a gas supply. It took six months to get the situation resolved and that was because I demanded a personal special visit.

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Gas industry regulators.

 

National Grid: UK Gas Distribution

 

It would be interesting to find out who they consider was living in your house during the four years that they think you were not.

 

I think they had the meters mixed up with one of my neighbours as the postman brought what looked like a SG bill to me with my address but with my neighbours name on it a few days before I got mine through. Figured out they thought the neighbours had paid until last year or this was maybe a final bill for them and a new one for me.

 

Really appreciate all the advice but it is very confusing. When I called NG the second time they still didn't have any record of me and I'm sure if I called them now they still wouldn't have. Think it must genuinely be different systems. Think the reason this has happened now is that a meter reader read the meter in March of this year and I guess he must have made the enquiry or connection between the meters.

 

I will leave the DD with Scottish Gas set up just now because I think that they must be the supplier now. The bill I have received is for the last year and so if id does fall under backbilling code then I would have to pay that anyway.

 

Will write a letter of complaint as well and give the details in the hope that I can begin to sort this mess out. I hope it does fall under the backbilling code cos don't know what I'll do if it doesn't but would still rather like to know that it is being sorted in the end. OH disagrees with me and thinks we should pay the bill and tell them nothing else and wait to see if anything else comes of the other four years in the future and then try to instigate the backbilling code if we have to.

 

So confused.:confused:

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