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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Any idea why my post about a caller was cagbotted


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:confused: Just a post about me being harassed by the jehovahs w, nothing rude or demeaning to them and it was cagbotted from bear garden.

 

I could understand if I was verbally rude to them, but did nothing of the sort, so a little confused.

 

A thread about the pope and a humorous ditty regarding what has gone on was okay, so why was my thread not allowed?

 

All I said was how I had been advised to put them off politely yet in a manner they would understand.

 

Confused and would normally not question why cagbotted.

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Well we all know how obnoxious and utterly rude you can be LL. I myself would Cagabot everything you have ever posted.:D

 

 

As for Jehovas Witnesses......Thank God for spy holes in front doors:p.

 

 

If all else fails, kick them where it hurts and SOD'EM;)

 

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I would normally ignore them, but this time they said come down ' we have something very exciting to tell you' didnt know who they were and then they said its exciting the bible and I clicked. Just was posting that the jw have been using a new tact near me.

 

Could it be a jw complained?

 

No offence each to their own, but I remember them telling me years ago when trying to persuade me to go to a meeting that as my life was saved by a blood transfusion (said in converstion, I couldnt go bec of there rules on blood transfusions and why not leave me alone, the attitude of them changed to nasty) that I was dammed. Now that disturbed the hell out of me and they are back, different callers though, so thought it worth a conversation.

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You must live by me LL cos they just knocked here:p. You know it's JW's because they come in pairs and there is usually about 4 pairs to each Road. It's a nice day out for a walk I suppose. We have a visit nearly every Sunday, but I have noticed, they never seem to come when it is raining:confused:.

 

I have a spy hole though, so (although they are not doing any harm, I suppose) don't have to answer the door. I'm glad of that, because I find it really hard to turn people away. I innevitably end up listening for ages.:D

 

 

If all else fails, kick them where it hurts and SOD'EM;)

 

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There are signs that you can purchase which specify:

 

Polite Notice:

 

No canvassers

No junk mail

No religious callers

 

Thank you.

I just made my own, printed it out from the PC and stuck it on the window.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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There are signs that you can purchase which specify:

 

 

I just made my own, printed it out from the PC and stuck it on the window.

 

 

 

Can you please make one for me that says "No Father Christmas, and no Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy". It's costing me a bloddy fortune:D.

 

 

If all else fails, kick them where it hurts and SOD'EM;)

 

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There are signs that you can purchase which specify:

 

 

I just made my own, printed it out from the PC and stuck it on the window.

 

Thats the point. I have one and it says no callers, no jehovahs witnesses and they ignore it. I have even called the kingdom hall just up the road and been told I will not be bothered again.:confused:

 

They still call and when you say no, they become abusive. I forget the word she shouted but Id heared it before from another.

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The best thing to door is welcome them with open arms and exitedly ask them to come in. They then (not being used to this), smile and look at you as if you have just left the Mental Home, and tell you that they will call back another time.:p

 

 

If all else fails, kick them where it hurts and SOD'EM;)

 

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Thats the point. I have one and it says no callers, no jehovahs witnesses and they ignore it. I have even called the kingdom hall just up the road and been told I will not be bothered again.:confused:

 

They still call and when you say no, they become abusive. I forget the word she shouted but Id heared it before from another.

 

If they are being abusive ring the police. Section 5 public order (or breach of the peace in Scotland).

 

No-one is above the law, and can't use their religion to hide behind it.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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Yep, cant remember the word but when asked kingdom hall last time they told me it meant non believer, thats okay, a bit like harry potters 'muggle' but they obviously get frustrated with the ammount round here who dont want to know.

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If they are being abusive ring the police. Section 5 public order (or breach of the peace in Scotland).

 

No-one is above the law, and can't use their religion to hide behind it.

 

Fair enough but round here cant get police to respond with a kid holding a brick and lobbing them at the houses,till following day and that was after chasing them up, so think they will probably laugh the call away.

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Religion.

 

How sad.

 

No problems with different peoples religion, just that this group seem to insist on imposing it on this estate. The fact the kingdom hall is at the top of the road has something to do with it.:eek:

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I can well imagine that there will be a number of people belonging to a great many religions who use CAG. I would suggest that it's appropriate to respect the views of others.

 

I respect that not everyone has a religion that they believe in, but many people do, and for those that do it can be very offensive to show disrespect towards people of any faith.

 

Live and let live.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

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Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I've often wondered if the cag letter to a DCA about doorstep collectors could be modified or added to a "No cold callers" notice. Chiefly this section :-

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

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I can well imagine that there will be a number of people belonging to a great many religions who use CAG. I would suggest that it's appropriate to respect the views of others.

 

I respect that not everyone has a religion that they believe in, but many people do, and for those that do it can be very offensive to show disrespect towards people of any faith.

 

Live and let live.

 

Can I just get some clarification here. Catholics (I am talking about the Vatican here - not so much the follwers) 'live' but they do not 'let live'. They order milllions of Africans not to wear condoms and great numbers subsequently die. Fact, yes?

 

So are you saying that these things should never be discussed and just 'live and let live'? Whilst I am sometimes over the top, and I apologise for that, it is born out of the frustration of having to watch these people get away with what they do.

 

I am not going to say nothing and exercise my right to free speech (within rules) as I was stating an opinion about what they get up to and is not my intention to flame or mock individuals.

 

The pope is due to visit claiming he is head of state (which he is not and not recognised by the international community in any case). He allows his mob to not report child rape. Another fact, and I do not see why I should not mention it.

 

I am not looking to argue with you on this Caro, but 'live and let live' just doesn't cut the mustard. If anybody is offended by my words then they can post that, albeit I hammer home the point that my words are not aimed at any individual, although it may leave a bad taste in my mouth which is just tough on me!

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I am not going to get into a debate on religion with you Thailand.

 

The OP asked why she had been cagbotted. I understand that she has had a PM about this from the team member who unapproved her thread, so that is the end of the matter as far as I'm concerned.

 

The Bear Garden is intended for light relief and I have better things to do than get into a theological debate.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Oh, and just to add - people are offended by other people's political views and I don't see why religion should be any different.

I think it's because people don't actually like politicians... they just hate certain ones less :p

 

I think all organized religion should be outlawed as it doesn't matter how noble the beliefs are, there is ultimately some person high up corrupting it.

 

 

Time to play Tim Minchin's pope song again :p

If in doubt, contact a qualified insured legal professional (or my wife... she knows EVERYTHING)

 

Or send a cheque or postal order payable to Reclaim the Right Ltd.

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Oh, and just to add - people are offended by other people's political views and I don't see why religion should be any different.

 

Agreed.

 

I see the Bear Garden as a place for off topic banter, and don't see why people would want to discuss politics, religion, sport or all sorts of things on a consumer website.

 

Others obviously do, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to be dragged into it.

 

I geneally prefer to use my time on CAG helping with consumer issues, although I like a bit of light-hearted fun in BG as much as anyone at the end of a long day.

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As the thread seems to have served it's purpose I'm going to close it.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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