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    • I'm not sure on the best option here, I'm happy to go with Tomlin, however I can afford to pay this one in full if needed and wonder whether I should be trying to get a reduced amount, perhaps in the court hallway before going in? that would require submitting a WS of some sort. What I 'like' (strong word) about TO in this instance, is that it allows me to keep my savings to hand for further accounts needing attention in the near future and I would hope gives me some control over the pcm amount.. I've read a number of TO threads now (fell to sleep at the keyboard last night ) but have a few questions please: - Do I specify the payment arrangement in a TO or the claimant? I'm thinking 20% lump upfront plus 96 months of circa 60 squid. - Who decides repayment amounts if CCJ is granted? if the judge, then do I submit I&E at any point? Given the amount of total debt across all my claims, I need to ensure anything I commit to is future proofed. I wouldn't want all my disposable income sent to this one debt, only to have another one in a month or two.
    • I'm sure I've said before that it's fine and dandy bringing in rules that favour you or your party, but you have to consider how it would play out if your opponents get in and want to use the same rules...
    • Its Gaelic celebration and bonfires today - Beltane Quite fortuitous for tomorrow lets hope
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    • Few tweaks as the run order was completely messed up and the main point of your defence (reconstituted agreement) pushed to the bottom of the statement.   I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. 1.The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act. 2.  I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. 3. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 4.  I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020. 5. The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’. The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents. 6. Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018. 7. Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicitor's is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’ 8. On (insert date) I successfully made application to set a side the judgment. The claim proceeded to allocation, 9. The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date. (insert date you did receive the documents) I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’. Remove irrelevant 10.The claimant relies upon and has exhibited a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement. It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HHJ Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’. The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause. 11. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not mislead the court. 12. It is denied I have ever received a default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.The claimant is put to strict proof to evidence from the original creditors internal document software the trigger of said notice.  13.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. 14. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024   Run 3 copies Court /Claimants Sol/File
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
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Boots RLP Civil recovery Very aggressive


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I was recently caught removing the plastic wrapping on a bottle of aftershave in boots, with a friend who took the aftershave out of the store without paying, along with a second bottle which I did not touch.

 

As soon as we left the store, 4 security guards grabbed us, we were taking into a back room, the police were called but they said because of our clean records they would let us off, yet after they had left the security staff made us fill out a civil recovery form, and told us we must write a letter of apology to the store.

I sent the letter the next day to them.

 

About a week later I received a first letter from RLP. Explaining the costs of the aftershave (28 GBPounds per bottle), and they expected us both to pay for both the bottles each, despite stating that the store had recovered the battles.

 

About 2 weeks after that they sent a second letter arrived, they now said because of other costs I must pay them 137.50 GBPounds, or about 100 GBpounds if I could pay in the next 31 days.

 

I did not make a payment, as I'm an A-level student without an income, not even EMA.

 

After the 31 days, I received a letter saying I had 14 days to pay 137.50.

 

After the 14 days had passed they are now saying my credit will be ruined, and I owe them 137.50 but it will increase by 5% annually.

 

I havn't heard anymore , but it's been about 14 days now.

 

 

I'm worried about data protection, I want the security recording and I want them to stop sending letters.

 

Any ideas?

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the police were called but they said because of our clean records they would let us off, yet after they had left the security staff made us fill out a civil recovery form, and told us we must write a letter of apology to the store.

I sent the letter the next day to them.

Any ideas?

 

Just out of interest, because I'm unfamiliar with the RLP area, how were you actually made to sign something?

 

Did the police turn up and say you'd be let off? Or was it the Boots folks saying you'd be let off?

 

Also, you say you're an A-level student, I assume that means you're probably under 18? Can anyone comment on the validity of contracts signed by a minor?

The adverts that this forum puts around my username and message are not endorsed by me.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Old_andrew2018

Hi

Please send a PM to JonCris, please remember to include a link to your thread, he will advise.

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First off, if this were me, I would not have signed a thing. They cannot do anything with no details. After that I would have quoted that being kept inside the store was false imprisonment, and if the police wanted to arrest me, then I would go willingly, they still wouldn't get so much as my first name.

 

It's also a grey area as to the powers security guards have. My partner says if they lay a finger on you, that is classed as an assault. They do not have the power of arrest, that is reserved only for the police & agencies working with the police such as FBI, CIA etc, regualted government authorities, not private security. Private contractors & store guards do not have these powers, and are as liable for their actions as any tom, dick or harry.

 

Do not make a payment, as soon as you start paying, the 'costs' will go up and up. It is a [problem], and should be treated as such. The letters you are getting are computer generated and designed to frighten you into paying. I doubt a human being even knows who you are.

 

You could find out if you could make a freedom of infomation request to boots for the security footage, although your likely to be fobbed off by 'it's been erased' etc.

 

Also, why did your friend walk out of the store without paying for the item?

Edited by The Chez
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Since when did the FBI and CIA have the power of arrest in the UK?

 

I was just mentioning some of the agencies that have this power, not what country they operate in.

 

Have you come here to be petty or to help the OP? Also, these agencies do work with our police from time to time to apprehend/help remove globaly wanted criminals & terrorists.

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Security guards CAN arrest a person, but they must have good grounds to suspect a crime has taken place AND that the perpetrator intends to flee the scene
They must have more than suspicion - The power to arrest on suspicion alone is a power that only a police constable has (and various other officers of the law, such as HMRC etc).
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They must have more than suspicion - The power to arrest on suspicion alone is a power that only a police constable has (and various other officers of the law, such as HMRC etc).

 

Incorrect A security guard can arrest a person based on the suspicion that he HAS committed whereas a police officer can arrest if he thinks an offence is about to be committed

 

The security guard acts reactively whereas the police officer can act proactivley

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That aside, some people posting in this forum, talking about RLP, did actualy steal, or hang around with theives, what do they expect to happen? The OP still hasn't explained why their 'friend' took the aftershave out of boots without paying for it.

 

At the end of the day, we do have rights yes, but stores also have rights to protect. Nobody has the right to steal anything from anyone, big company or a garden gnome from the old lady down the road. RLP isn't the best way to deal with theives, personally I think people caught stealing should face criminal charges levied only by the police, not by credit companies.

 

If you don't agree, thats fine, and for the record I am very, very against RLP and the stores that use it. Boots should be ashamed at how they treat customrs as criminals before they've done a thing wrong, what on Earth would Jessie Boot think?

 

Boots also STILL test their products on animals, when a lot of other companies have abandoned this.

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They must have more than suspicion - The power to arrest on suspicion alone is a power that only a police constable has (and various other officers of the law, such as HMRC etc).

 

Incorrect

 

They do arrest on suspicion which is why 'suspects' are known as suspects

 

They have to have reasonable grounds to suspect a crime has already been committed whereas a police officer can arrest if he has reasonable grounds to suspect a crime is about to be committed

 

Reasonable grounds would be either what he witnessed or based on what he was told by other persons

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Incorrect

 

They do arrest on suspicion which is why 'suspects' are known as suspects

 

They have to have reasonable grounds to suspect a crime has already been committed whereas a police officer can arrest if he has reasonable grounds to suspect a crime is about to be committed

 

Reasonable grounds would be either what he witnessed or based on what he was told by other persons

 

How do you know all this?

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That aside, some people posting in this forum, talking about RLP, did actualy steal, or hang around with theives, what do they expect to happen? The OP still hasn't explained why their 'friend' took the aftershave out of boots without paying for it.

 

At the end of the day, we do have rights yes, but stores also have rights to protect. Nobody has the right to steal anything from anyone, big company or a garden gnome from the old lady down the road. RLP isn't the best way to deal with theives, personally I think people caught stealing should face criminal charges levied only by the police, not by credit companies.

 

If you don't agree, thats fine, and for the record I am very, very against RLP and the stores that use it. Boots should be ashamed at how they treat customrs as criminals before they've done a thing wrong, what on Earth would Jessie Boot think?

 

Boots also STILL test their products on animals, when a lot of other companies have abandoned this.

 

I agree & that's why we have a police force & a criminal justice system

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Cos I does;)

 

Sorry I couldn't resist

 

 

Just wondered thats all lol, nothing bad meant.

 

I do feel though that some people posting on this section need to rethink who they hang around with though. If I was hanging around with a theif, and they did it while I was with them, they'd never be coming within 1000 foot of a shop with me around again.

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Chez the problem is that even when some admit to theft it's found on questioning there was no such thing they have just been made to think they have committed a crime when they haven't In many cases there is no intention to steal it's often just a mistake either way there has to have been an intention to steal before it meets the burden of proof

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Incorrect

 

They do arrest on suspicion which is why 'suspects' are known as suspects

 

They have to have reasonable grounds to suspect a crime has already been committed whereas a police officer can arrest if he has reasonable grounds to suspect a crime is about to be committed

 

Reasonable grounds would be either what he witnessed or based on what he was told by other persons

I stand corrected.

 

Section 100 of SOCPA adds Section 24A (1) (b) "anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence".

 

The test would be as to what constitutes reasonable grounds.

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Correct

 

Let me give a you a scenario Chap buys cassette remains in store whilst his friend completes her shopping. Leaves store followed by store detective who assumes on seeing the cassette in the chaps hand it's been stolen. Calls police who acting on the information of the store detective & despite his protestations of innocence arrest him in a nearby cafe & take him to the nick. 2 hours later he's released when the assistant who sold the cassette phones to confirm it had been paid for

 

Also I should mention that by the time the police arrived he had thrown the receipt away

 

What do you think happened next?

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