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    • If the claimant fails to draft directions the court can order a Case Management Hearing to set them but normally in Fast Track claims the claimant sets the directions...Unlike small claims track which are always set the court.
    • Not Evris offer, the court offers mediation service.   All claims proceed to hearing if mediation fails /not happen.   Why do you not wish to attend in person to stand your claim ?     Absolutely you must comply with the courts directions or your claim risks being struck out. Preparation for a hearing should happen irrespective of mediation.   https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/460613-suing-a-parcel-delivery-company-when-you-dont-have-a-direct-contract-with-them-–-third-party-rights-copy-of-judgment-available/#comment-5255007   Andy  
    • LPA.  (I'm fighting insolvency due to all the stuff that he and lender have done).  He appointed estate agents - (changed several times). Disclosure shows he was originally appointed for a specific reason (3m after repo) : using his powers as acting for leaseholder to serve notice on freeholders (to grab fh).  There was interest from 3 potential buyers. He chose one whose offer depended on a positive result of the notice.  Disc also shows he'd taken counsel advice - which was 'he'd fail'.  He'd simultaneously asked to resign as his job (of serving notice) was done and he'd found a buyer.  Lender asked him to stay on to assign notice to the buyer.  Notice failed, buyer didn't buy.  So receiver stayed.  There was 1 buyer who wanted to proceed w/o fh but receiver/ lender wasted 1y trying to get rid of them!  Disc shows why. But I didn't know why at the time. In later months Lender voiced getting rid of receiver. Various reasons - including cost.  But there's a contradiction/ irony: as I've seen an email (of 4y ago) which shows the receiver telling lender not to incur significant costs and to minimize receiver costs.    Yet lender then asked him to serve another notice - again counsel advice indicated 'he'd fail'.  And he did fail.  But wasted 3y trying and incurred huge legal costs - lender trying to pass on to me. Lender interfered - said wanted to do works.  Receiver should have said no.  But disc. shows he agreed to step aside to let them do the works - on proviso lender would discuss potential costs first (they didn't), works wouldn't take long (took 15m), and lender would hold interest (they didn't) (this last point is crucial for me now - as I need to know if I can argue that all interest beyond this point shouldnt be allowed?)   I need to check receiver witness statement in litigation with freeholders to see exactly what he said about 'his position'. But I remember it being along the lines of - 'if the works increased the value of the property he didn't have a problem'.  Lender/ receiver real problems started at this point. The cost of works and 4y passage of time has meant there is no real increase in value. Lender (or receiver) didn't get any permissions (statutory or fh) (and didn't tell me) and just bulldozed the property to an empty shell.  The freeholders served notice on me as leaseholder for breach of covenants (strict no alterations).  The Lender stepped in (acting for me) to issue notice for relief of forfeiture - not the receiver.  That wasted 2y of litigation (3y if inc the works) and incurred huge costs (both sides).  Lender's aim was to do the works that every potential buyer balked at due to the lease restrictions.  Lender and receiver knew couldn't do works w/o fh permission. Lender did them anyway; receiver allowed.  Receiver remained appointed.  I'm arguing lender interfered in receiver duties.  Receiver should have just sold property 4-5y ago w/o allowing any works.  Almost 3y since works finished the property remains unsold (>5y from repo). The property looks brand new - but it was great before.  The lender spent a ton of money - hoping that would facilitate a quick sale.  But the money they spent and the years they have wasted has meant they had to increase sale price.  It's now completely overpriced.  And - of course - the same issues that put buyers off (before works) still exist.   The receiver has tried for 2y to assert the works increased value. But he is relying on agents estimates - which have proved highly speculative. (Usual trick of an agent to give a high value to get the business - and then tell seller to reduce when no-one buys.). And of course lender continues to accrue interest (despite 4y ago receiver saying pause interest). Lender tried to persuade receiver to use specific agent. Disc shows this agent was best friends with the lender's main investor in the property.  Before works this agent had valued it low.  After works this agent suggested a value 70% higher!  The lender persuaded receiver to sack one agent and instead use this agent.  No offers. (Price way too high).   Research has uncovered that this main investor has since died.  I guess his investment is part of probate? And his family want it back?    Disc shows the sacked agent had actually received a high offer 1y ago.  Receiver rejected it.  (thus I don't know if the buyer would have ever proceeded). He was relying on the high speculative valuation the agents had given him to pitch for the business. The agents were in a catch-22.  The receiver sacked them. Disc shows there has been 0 interest ever since (inc via new agent requested by lender). I don't think lender or receiver want all this to come out in public domain via a trial.  It will ruin their reputations. If I can't get an order for sale with lender - can I apply separately against receiver?
    • Ok many thanks. Just wanted to check that nothing else for us to do / send for the moment. Will update again once we receive a copy of their N181 and proposed directions for review. Our post is a bit hit and miss at the moment. Appreciate the help through this process.
    • Yes and will ask you if you are in agreement and or wish to add /remove any direction.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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Boots RLP Civil recovery Very aggressive


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I was recently caught removing the plastic wrapping on a bottle of aftershave in boots, with a friend who took the aftershave out of the store without paying, along with a second bottle which I did not touch.

 

As soon as we left the store, 4 security guards grabbed us, we were taking into a back room, the police were called but they said because of our clean records they would let us off, yet after they had left the security staff made us fill out a civil recovery form, and told us we must write a letter of apology to the store.

I sent the letter the next day to them.

 

About a week later I received a first letter from RLP. Explaining the costs of the aftershave (28 GBPounds per bottle), and they expected us both to pay for both the bottles each, despite stating that the store had recovered the battles.

 

About 2 weeks after that they sent a second letter arrived, they now said because of other costs I must pay them 137.50 GBPounds, or about 100 GBpounds if I could pay in the next 31 days.

 

I did not make a payment, as I'm an A-level student without an income, not even EMA.

 

After the 31 days, I received a letter saying I had 14 days to pay 137.50.

 

After the 14 days had passed they are now saying my credit will be ruined, and I owe them 137.50 but it will increase by 5% annually.

 

I havn't heard anymore , but it's been about 14 days now.

 

 

I'm worried about data protection, I want the security recording and I want them to stop sending letters.

 

Any ideas?

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the police were called but they said because of our clean records they would let us off, yet after they had left the security staff made us fill out a civil recovery form, and told us we must write a letter of apology to the store.

I sent the letter the next day to them.

Any ideas?

 

Just out of interest, because I'm unfamiliar with the RLP area, how were you actually made to sign something?

 

Did the police turn up and say you'd be let off? Or was it the Boots folks saying you'd be let off?

 

Also, you say you're an A-level student, I assume that means you're probably under 18? Can anyone comment on the validity of contracts signed by a minor?

The adverts that this forum puts around my username and message are not endorsed by me.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Old_andrew2018

Hi

Please send a PM to JonCris, please remember to include a link to your thread, he will advise.

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First off, if this were me, I would not have signed a thing. They cannot do anything with no details. After that I would have quoted that being kept inside the store was false imprisonment, and if the police wanted to arrest me, then I would go willingly, they still wouldn't get so much as my first name.

 

It's also a grey area as to the powers security guards have. My partner says if they lay a finger on you, that is classed as an assault. They do not have the power of arrest, that is reserved only for the police & agencies working with the police such as FBI, CIA etc, regualted government authorities, not private security. Private contractors & store guards do not have these powers, and are as liable for their actions as any tom, dick or harry.

 

Do not make a payment, as soon as you start paying, the 'costs' will go up and up. It is a [problem], and should be treated as such. The letters you are getting are computer generated and designed to frighten you into paying. I doubt a human being even knows who you are.

 

You could find out if you could make a freedom of infomation request to boots for the security footage, although your likely to be fobbed off by 'it's been erased' etc.

 

Also, why did your friend walk out of the store without paying for the item?

Edited by The Chez
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Since when did the FBI and CIA have the power of arrest in the UK?

 

I was just mentioning some of the agencies that have this power, not what country they operate in.

 

Have you come here to be petty or to help the OP? Also, these agencies do work with our police from time to time to apprehend/help remove globaly wanted criminals & terrorists.

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Security guards CAN arrest a person, but they must have good grounds to suspect a crime has taken place AND that the perpetrator intends to flee the scene
They must have more than suspicion - The power to arrest on suspicion alone is a power that only a police constable has (and various other officers of the law, such as HMRC etc).
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They must have more than suspicion - The power to arrest on suspicion alone is a power that only a police constable has (and various other officers of the law, such as HMRC etc).

 

Incorrect A security guard can arrest a person based on the suspicion that he HAS committed whereas a police officer can arrest if he thinks an offence is about to be committed

 

The security guard acts reactively whereas the police officer can act proactivley

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That aside, some people posting in this forum, talking about RLP, did actualy steal, or hang around with theives, what do they expect to happen? The OP still hasn't explained why their 'friend' took the aftershave out of boots without paying for it.

 

At the end of the day, we do have rights yes, but stores also have rights to protect. Nobody has the right to steal anything from anyone, big company or a garden gnome from the old lady down the road. RLP isn't the best way to deal with theives, personally I think people caught stealing should face criminal charges levied only by the police, not by credit companies.

 

If you don't agree, thats fine, and for the record I am very, very against RLP and the stores that use it. Boots should be ashamed at how they treat customrs as criminals before they've done a thing wrong, what on Earth would Jessie Boot think?

 

Boots also STILL test their products on animals, when a lot of other companies have abandoned this.

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They must have more than suspicion - The power to arrest on suspicion alone is a power that only a police constable has (and various other officers of the law, such as HMRC etc).

 

Incorrect

 

They do arrest on suspicion which is why 'suspects' are known as suspects

 

They have to have reasonable grounds to suspect a crime has already been committed whereas a police officer can arrest if he has reasonable grounds to suspect a crime is about to be committed

 

Reasonable grounds would be either what he witnessed or based on what he was told by other persons

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Incorrect

 

They do arrest on suspicion which is why 'suspects' are known as suspects

 

They have to have reasonable grounds to suspect a crime has already been committed whereas a police officer can arrest if he has reasonable grounds to suspect a crime is about to be committed

 

Reasonable grounds would be either what he witnessed or based on what he was told by other persons

 

How do you know all this?

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That aside, some people posting in this forum, talking about RLP, did actualy steal, or hang around with theives, what do they expect to happen? The OP still hasn't explained why their 'friend' took the aftershave out of boots without paying for it.

 

At the end of the day, we do have rights yes, but stores also have rights to protect. Nobody has the right to steal anything from anyone, big company or a garden gnome from the old lady down the road. RLP isn't the best way to deal with theives, personally I think people caught stealing should face criminal charges levied only by the police, not by credit companies.

 

If you don't agree, thats fine, and for the record I am very, very against RLP and the stores that use it. Boots should be ashamed at how they treat customrs as criminals before they've done a thing wrong, what on Earth would Jessie Boot think?

 

Boots also STILL test their products on animals, when a lot of other companies have abandoned this.

 

I agree & that's why we have a police force & a criminal justice system

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Cos I does;)

 

Sorry I couldn't resist

 

 

Just wondered thats all lol, nothing bad meant.

 

I do feel though that some people posting on this section need to rethink who they hang around with though. If I was hanging around with a theif, and they did it while I was with them, they'd never be coming within 1000 foot of a shop with me around again.

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Chez the problem is that even when some admit to theft it's found on questioning there was no such thing they have just been made to think they have committed a crime when they haven't In many cases there is no intention to steal it's often just a mistake either way there has to have been an intention to steal before it meets the burden of proof

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Incorrect

 

They do arrest on suspicion which is why 'suspects' are known as suspects

 

They have to have reasonable grounds to suspect a crime has already been committed whereas a police officer can arrest if he has reasonable grounds to suspect a crime is about to be committed

 

Reasonable grounds would be either what he witnessed or based on what he was told by other persons

I stand corrected.

 

Section 100 of SOCPA adds Section 24A (1) (b) "anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence".

 

The test would be as to what constitutes reasonable grounds.

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Correct

 

Let me give a you a scenario Chap buys cassette remains in store whilst his friend completes her shopping. Leaves store followed by store detective who assumes on seeing the cassette in the chaps hand it's been stolen. Calls police who acting on the information of the store detective & despite his protestations of innocence arrest him in a nearby cafe & take him to the nick. 2 hours later he's released when the assistant who sold the cassette phones to confirm it had been paid for

 

Also I should mention that by the time the police arrived he had thrown the receipt away

 

What do you think happened next?

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what was the outcome, how much did it cost the store etc :rolleyes:

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glad to hear it,

NEVER FORGET

 

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