Welcome Finance - Secret Commission - No liability For Interest - Breach of Complaint Handling Rules

[beyondhope]

It my own fault for having fat fingers

 

 

In all honesty, I do not expect Welcome Finance to provide me with a favourable response.

 

I have today arranged to take next Monday 29 March 2010, as annual leave. If I have not recieved a favourable response by then, I will submit my claim.

 

@ fat fingers not your fault if people spell their names oddly

 

I also doubt you will get an adequate response but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt

 

Best of luck keep us informed

[postggj]

You Are Number One On My List Now BEYOND

 

Sorry Ive Been Away

 

Ime Going To Nail Atos To The Wall

 

As Ime Back On The Sick Now Ill Catch Up With You Tomorow

 

Regards

 

Sorry For The Butting In Wfspayback

[beyondhope]

You Are Number One On My List Now BEYOND

 

Sorry Ive Been Away

 

Ime Going To Nail Atos To The Wall

 

As Ime Back On The Sick Now Ill Catch Up With You Tomorow

 

Regards

 

Sorry For The Butting In Wfspayback

 

Thanks Post, glad to see Atos are in for the time of their lives lol I did read your thread. Ill be around on and off all day tomorrow and here all tomorrow evening so itll give you chance to catch up on my thread im on day 4/5 of a 14 day wait regarding other issues on the account but not the unlawful recission/unlawful repo im saving those for court see you tomorrow.

 

Sorry for jumping on your thread wfspayback

[wfspayback]

That's ok guys (or maybe girl(s) )

 

There is nothing more I can do either until Welcome respond or until Monday now.

 

My Particulars of Claim are all written and ready to go, just have to go to the Court and pay the fee.

[johnerog]

Morning all, I have a note of caution.......

 

I have to be careful what I say here because of watchers. I recently accompanied a friend to court. I have been trying to help him find out if or how much commission was paid to a car dealer on an HP deal. He applied under 31.16 for the underwriting sheet.

The judge was brilliant. The correspondant stated that no case was made concerning them, the finance company. The Hurlstanger case was used by us but the judge SPECIFICALY wanted to know what law had been brocken and wanted cases to support it. He said that just saying a secret commission MIGHT have been paid was insufficient. But he has rescheduled the case instead of throwing it out and has refused costs to the finance company until the case is completed. He more or less said that we have a case but are presenting it wrongly.

John

[postggj]

hi john

 

i totally agree in what you are saying

 

i have doccments and underwriting sheets headed

 

WELCOME ELITE BROKERS

 

THAT WILL SATISFY ANY JUDGE

 

ANYBODY NEEDS THESE DOCUMENTS TO SUPORT THERE CASE, JUST SHOUT

 

IT PROOVES WELCOME DO INFACT PAY THEMSELF A SECRET COMMISSION AND WORK IT BACK INTO THE AGREEMENT FOR WHICH THE DEBTOR ENDS UP PAYING FOR

[johnerog]

Trying to PM you postie. No space.

John

[sprockett]

I too have a secret commission document, a copy of which they sent as part of my cca. its a copy of a fax from 'Rainbow'' to the dealer I got my car from in 2004 however I can't see where its been recalculated back into the figures but i guess that's the whole idea ...... can i use it to get my money back for the whole agreement ?

[mrsiphone]

Hello John

 

Looking just at the Notice Payback has sent Welcome, it looks like the specific law that has been broken is the Misrepresentation Act.

[postggj]

John

 

Ill Pm You My Email Address

 

 

Remember People

 

If You Have Proof That The Creditor Has Paid Secret Commission Payments To Its Self Or A Broker And Not Informed You, It Invalidates The Agreement As To

 

Wilson V Hurstanger

[postggj]

Pm Box Now Free John

 

Be Quick

 

It Soon Fills Up

[mrsiphone]

And if you don't have proof, take a look at s.140 of the CCA

[johnerog]

John

 

Ill Pm You My Email Address

 

 

Remember People

 

If You Have Proof That The Creditor Has Paid Secret Commission Payments To Its Self Or A Broker And Not Informed You, It Invalidates The Agreement As To

 

Wilson V Hurstanger

 

we tried that but the Judge said we had to show what law had been broken by Finance co.

mrsiphone thinks misrepresentation, I'm wondering about Fraud. Should say he was trying to get a document from the FC regarding commissions using 31.16

John

Edited March 24, 2010 by johnerog
adding

[mrsiphone]

Hello John

 

Misrepresentation is Fraud

[postggj]

we tried that but the Judge said we had to show what law had been broken by Finance co.

mrsiphone thinks misrepresentation, I'm wondering about Fraud. Should say he was trying to get a document from the FC regarding commissions using 31.16

John

 

 

as to my pm john

 

you need to have a good reason to suspect commission payments to ask for disclosure under cpr 31.16

 

just suspecting is not good enough

 

an example would be an invoice from the garage for xyz and then from the finance co, cost of the car has increased on the agreement

 

having an invoice from the broker is another reason

 

what reasons do you have to suspect undisclosed commission payments

[wfspayback]

A few posts today

 

Apologies, I am unable to access CAG whilst at work but I will try to respond to comments as and when I can.

 

In relation to my own specific claim, it is the Misrepresentation Act 1967 which is the primary piece of legislation. More specifically it is section 2(1) of this act.

 

The Fraud Act 2006, whilst an important piece of legislation in its own right is not applicable to my claim as the act of fraud occured before 15 January 2007, when the Fraud Act 2006 came into force.

 

 

[wfspayback]

My claim will also be reliant upon s.140 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended 2006).

 

Unfair relationships between creditors and debtors

 

 

140A Unfair relationships between creditors and debtors

 

(1) The court may make an order under section 140B in connection with a credit agreement if it determines that the relationship between the creditor and the debtor arising out of the agreement (or the agreement taken with any related agreement) is unfair to the debtor because of one or more of the following—

(a) any of the terms of the agreement or of any related agreement;

(b) the way in which the creditor has exercised or enforced any of his rights under the agreement or any related agreement;

© any other thing done (or not done) by, or on behalf of, the creditor (either before or after the making of the agreement or any related agreement).

 

Which leads onto......

 

140B Powers of court in relation to unfair relationships

 

(1) An order under this section in connection with a credit agreement may do one or more of the following—

(a) require the creditor, or any associate or former associate of his, to repay (in whole or in part) any sum paid by the debtor or by a surety by virtue of the agreement or any related agreement (whether paid to the creditor, the associate or the former associate or to any other person);

 

And.....

 

(9) If, in any such proceedings, the debtor or a surety alleges that the relationship between the creditor and the debtor is unfair to the debtor, it is for the creditor to prove to the contrary.

 

The effect of s.140B (9) is that the burden of proof is placed on the creditor (in this instance Welcome) rather than the Borrower/Claimant:wink:

[kregrs]

I'm watching this with interest, could be following in your shoes if it all goes to plan for you, hope it does.

Edited March 24, 2010 by kregrs

[just_jue]

Hi, sorry to be a pain and high jack your post, but could you let me know where it stated in the cca 2006 (i have read it and it doesn't make much sense to me) about commissions and broker fees have to be disclosed. My agreement with the broker fees is from 2003.

Thanks

 

JJ

[postggj]

Just Jue

 

Google Wilson V Hurstanger

[just_jue]

Thanks post I have done, I know you haven't been well and you were helping me with my OP about broker fees, if I get a letter drafted could you look over it for me?

[postggj]

My Pleasure

[wfspayback]

Hi, sorry to be a pain and high jack your post, but could you let me know where it stated in the cca 2006 (i have read it and it doesn't make much sense to me) about commissions and broker fees have to be disclosed. My agreement with the broker fees is from 2003.

Thanks

 

JJ

 

Hello JJ

 

Sorry I did not mean to imply that there is reference to "secret commissions" in the CCA. I was just setting the pieces that form my Particulars of Claim.

[wfspayback]

There is also the small matter of the statements (well I know at least mine isn't) not being compliant with the CCA. This also forms part of my Particulars of Claim.

 

From 1 October 2008, creditors will be required by section 77(a) of the 1974 Act, to provide debtors with annual statements in relation to regulated agreements for fixed-sum credit, such as loans and hire purchase.

 

Content of Statements

· The duration of the agreement and the amount of credit provided.

 

The ‘Hire Purchase Loan Statement’ provided by Welcome Finance did not specify the duration of the agreement.

 

· The rate or rates of interest applicable, together with

- the period during which each rate applied

- if applicable, the element of the credit to which it applied

 

The ‘Hire Purchase Loan Statement’ provided by Welcome Finance did not specify the rate of interest applicable.

 

· The amount and date of any interest or other charges falling due during the period

 

The ‘Hire Purchase Loan Statement’ provided by Welcome Finance did not specify any interest falling due during the period.

 

Prescribed Forms of Wording

 

· The consequences of paying less than the agreed sum

· Sources of help or advice if the debtor is having difficulties making payments

· The right to settle the agreement early

· The right to terminate a hire-purchase or conditional sale agreement

· Dispute resolution and complaints to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

My statement did not include any of the above

 

s.77(a) 6(b)

 

(6) Where this subsection applies in relation to a failure to give a statement under this section to the debtor—

(b) the debtor shall have no liability to pay any sum of interest to the extent calculated by reference to the period of non-compliance or to any part of it;

 

 

 

 

 

 

The above is quoted in relation to my own statement. I would recommend checking the requirement of the CCA, against your own statements.

[wfspayback]

Tomorrow is Thursday Welcome.... Monday is quickly approaching...

 

Tick Tock... Tick Tock....

 

As it is on BBC3 at the moment, a special dedicated to Welcome Finance