injury at work

[Bigredbus]

Your case might be too complicate for them to handle... They twisted it so much that they now need some expert to untangle the knots...

 

It will be a long and arduous process... for them!

[sack6470]

I have just checked online for the recorded delivery my partner sent last tuesday asking for an appeal on the dismissal, but it is not showing as been delivered or signed for yet?! great! deadline to appeal was last friday, where do we stand with that if they have not recieved it by that date?... we have proof it was sent on tuesday....

[elpulpo]

Can you contact them by email?

If so, I'd do so ASAP, explaining the situation and attaching a copy of the letter and a downloaded copy of the recorded delivery web page. Keep all evidence of the recorded delivery, of course.

They can't, or certainly would be very foolish to, refuse you an appeal in this circumstance.

[Bigredbus]

Hi 'sack6470',

 

I have had several instances where I sent a recorded delivery letter/packet and it did not show on the 'Royal Mail' website as received, or signed for.

 

However, you have proof it has been sent... your letter is deemed to be received by its addressee two working days after being posted.

 

Nevertheless, as 'elpulpo' mentioned, you can send an e-mail reiterating the content of your appeal...

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

How are you getting on?

 

Any update?

[sack6470]

Hi, they have emailed back saying that the appeal letter has been recieved.... so just waiting for appeal date.

 

my partner wants his name cleared, and for them to admit that this has been dealt with wrong and claim for unfair dismissal, Would we approach the solicitor now or wait until after the appeal?

Edited March 24, 2010 by sack6470

[Bigredbus]

You may want to approach him/her now and brief him/her about the case and where you actually stand at this moment in time.

 

Would be a good idea, too, to send off that SAR/DPA now as they could well send the requested documents on the deadline (40 days).

[sack6470]

Will do, thanks Bigredbus....

[sack6470]

Hi,

have just recieved a date for the appeal plus the minutes of the d.h which are in some cases inaccurate, wrote in the wrong order of how the conversation went and issues raised by partner not even mentioned in them!

 

 

what do we do regards this? send them partners account of d.h and tell them that we do not agreee fully with their minutes? is it correct that these should have been shown to him at the end of the d.h and he should have agreed or disagreed with them then for them to be amended accordingly?

 

any advice greatfully accepted.

 

 

Wish we were well off, then we would get the best solicitor in the land to fight all this.... stress, headache, frustration... on and on and on.!

Edited March 24, 2010 by sack6470

[elpulpo]

Try and find an employment law specialist who will do a free, initial consultaion.

Beware of NWNF in employment law, costs are very rarely awarded to applicants at the ET, so the legal fees would eat up a fair chunk (or all) of any award you might receive.

[Bigredbus]

Hi 'sack6470',

 

As you previously mentioned... the minutes are inaccurate... this is where the notes taken by you and your colleague come handy...

 

Minutes should have been signed by you at the end of the meeting... thus asserting their truthfulness... Since this has not been the case... you will be able to put that forward at the tribunal... you challenge the veracity of the minutes...

 

To challenge the Disciplinary Hearing procedure... go back to your 'Handbook of Employment' and check, point by point, what should have been done and followed... do the same by using the ACAS Code of Practice - Disciplinary and Grievance Procedures...

 

Any new evidence in the case?

 

Regarding NW/NF solicitor... shop around before signing any Conditional Fee Agreement (CFA)... Generally is around 25% plus incurred expenses as case goes along...

 

The road to redress is a long one but we are all behind you two...

[sack6470]

Elpulpo...

 

I have sent you a link to a site can you have a look at it please and tell me if this is with who you would reccomend I should go with..

thanks

[sack6470]

Bigredbus, thanks for your advice..

 

Should we not at ths point then write or even bring up in the appeal that the d.h minutes are inacurrate?

 

 

 

god the whole thing stinks.......

 

SO WISH I HAD TAKEN OUT FULL HOUSE INSURANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited March 24, 2010 by sack6470

[Bigredbus]

You may, at the appeal, mention that you intend to challenge the veracity of the minutes... as they have not been signed... (do not sign them then)... what you intend to do here is to demonstrate before a tribunal that they were dishonest in their minutes...

 

Do not get mad... I fully understand the pressure and feelings running high but if you take everything in a logical and rationale way, they would have little room to move...

 

Let them say... but, please, make sure you have everything in writing...

 

We can, even, help you write a letter to prepare for your appeal...

 

Do not hesitate...

[sack6470]

We would be greatful for any help on writing the appeal grounds letter...

 

 

I have said to my partner, (am I right in doing so?) that the appeal is just a process he has to go through to take it to the next stage ET, so not to get too stressed over it ...

Edited March 24, 2010 by sack6470

[Bigredbus]

Dear So and So,

 

We acknowledge your letter dated XX/XX/2010.

 

We contend as follows:

 

a) Pursuant to the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (ACAS) - Code of Procedures - Disciplinary and Grievances at Work - '[E]mployers and Employees should raise and deal with issues promptly and should not unreasonably delay meetings, decisions or confirmation of those decisions'. We remind you that this case has been unduly protracted for the last 5 months, thus causing us unnecessary physical and financial burden.

 

b) We remind you that none of the minutes of hearings and/or meetings have been signed by both parties, thus we will challenge the veracity of those minutes.

 

c) Pursuant to The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 (The RIDDOR 1995), cases of over-three day injuries must be notified within ten days of the incident occurring. Upon requesting a copy of the recording of the accident, which occured on your premises on XX/XX/2009, from the Health and Safety Executive (the HSE), we have been notified that such entry does not exist, contrary to your confirmation in the minutes of the meeting dated XX/XX/2010.

 

d) We requested, from you, disclosure of the true copy of the recording of this accident with the HSE, to no avail. We, hereby, request that the said document be disclosed prior to the appeal.

 

We hope the present clarifies our position.

 

'sack6470'

Edited March 18, 2010 by Bigredbus
Typo...

[sack6470]

Thanks Bigredbus for your reply...

 

Can I just say the RIDDOR Report that my partner asked about was not even mentioned in the minutes of the meeting... . yes it is all relevant in the case, it highlights the incompetance and lies that are being told and they just get away with without answering... but I feel that thats just another thing thats going to be looked over by them.

 

 

I wanted to clarify with ACAS that when we put in appeal letter that they have not followed company procedure in disciplinary action... that we were in fact correct to argue this...

I have looked back again in the company handbook and contract of employment and it does not actually state a procedure to follow for disciplinary action (it did for grievance procedures)

 

So I said to the ACAS advisor that it does not proplerly lay out the procedures and she said, then they have to revert to using ACAS code of conduct if they havent got them themselves... and thats what should be used.....

 

So one of the first things is like so many of you have said before.... the amount of time it takes should be reasonable.... well it hasnt been! so i am getting more and more lost in this.... Acas Advisor saying one thing, telling me another, then reading another... oh lord give me strength.

Edited March 24, 2010 by sack6470

[Bigredbus]

Thanks Bigredbus for your reply...

 

Can I just say the RIDDOR Report that my partner asked about was not even mentioned in the minutes of the meeting... I am wondering if they will turn around and say ... 'this is not we are here to discuss'... at the appeal like they did with my partners grievance he raised at the d.h... yes it is all relevant in the case, it highlights the incompetance and lies that are being told and they just get away with without answering... but I feel that thats just another thing thats going to be looked over by them.

 

I have just come off the phone from ACAS yet again! sometimes you get such helpful sympathetic advisors, and sometimes .......... well make you feel that you are interupting their tea break lol..

 

I wanted to clarify with ACAS that when we put in appeal letter that they have not followed company procedure in disciplinary action... that we were in fact correct to argue this... they said that although the time they took to deal with this case from suspension to d.h although unreasonable length of time... was not specifically deemed as them not following company procedure... I raised the fact again that every peice of evidence or written documents they had provided... it was only provided once we had requested it... again she said does not necessary mean they have not followed procedure... hhmmm?

 

So then I went and looked back again in the company handbook and contract of employment and it does not actually state a procedure to follow for disciplinary action (it did for grievance procedures)

It states a disc.. procedure.. for punctuality and absentise....

but when it came to GROSS MISCONDUCT all it had was a list of what is deemed as GM and thats all... it did not say , a investigory hearing, suspension... d.h etc etc ? nothing ! just the list of what can be classed as G.M and being abussive and aggressive wasnt even on that list...

 

So I said to the ACAS advisor that it does not proplerly lay out the procedures and she said, then they have to revert to using ACAS code of conduct if they havent got them themselves... and thats what should be used.....

 

So one of the first things is like so many of you have said before.... the amount of time it takes should be reasonable.... well it hasnt been! so i am getting more and more lost in this.... Acas Advisor saying one thing, telling me another, then reading another... oh lord give me strength!

 

The company want it outlined why they have not followed company disciplinary procedures, when we think we have an argument eg time and lack of proof and evidence submitted.... we then get told that it is not enough to say that they did not follow procedures correctly, it may have been unreasonable but that is not classed as enough to claim unfair dismissal... and could in fact just warrant a slap on the hand for them if anything else...

 

The fact that the crime (that didnt even occur) abusive and agressive behaviour, warrants dismissal for gross misconduct is too severe a punishment, and is not even listed on their list of whats deemed as GM

Is a good argument.... But I worry that we will lose on the not following company procedure and that if we raise the riddor report etc that we feel is important, they will say that is not the issue here...

 

That's where your strength lies...

[Bigredbus]

Hi 'Mr and Mrs sack6470',

 

We all hope that your case is coming together nicely and strongly...