Problem with Peugeot garage

[bannblue]

hi everyone newbie here.

 

right heres the situation.

 

Last week an error code came up on my car which is a peugeot 407(4 years old).It was an esp/asr error.

 

On Monday past i took it to the dealership in town where they perfomed a diagnostic test on my vehicle.This test cost £50 but I managed to get it for £40.Anyway the result of this test was inconclusive as they informed me it was angle sensors to the front or to the rear of my vehicle but could not pinpoint exactly where the fault came from.

 

The guy in the garage told me if I wanted to get a proper diagnosis I would have to spend approx £400 for peugeot to get a specialist mechanic to find out the exact cause of the fault.

 

I thought this was strange so I checked up on my payments to peugeot and found out that I was on hire purchase agreement.I spoke with trading standards and they thought that peugeot had to fix my car.Is this true?

[heliosuk]

Not necessarilly. It depends on the warranty supplied with the car if any. Most warranties allow an amount for diagnostics based on what they think is a reasonable amount to diagnose the fault. Some extended warranties refuse to cover diagnostis at all. They just cover the removal and refit of the affected part.

 

Would be interesting if you could post the fault codes they found.

 

Most esp/asr/dsc codes are registered from the ABS sensors and yaw control module so why it needs a specialist at the moment is questionable.

[bannblue]

Not necessarilly. It depends on the warranty supplied with the car if any. Most warranties allow an amount for diagnostics based on what they think is a reasonable amount to diagnose the fault. Some extended warranties refuse to cover diagnostis at all. They just cover the removal and refit of the affected part.

 

Would be interesting if you could post the fault codes they found.

 

Most esp/asr/dsc codes are registered from the ABS sensors and yaw control module so why it needs a specialist at the moment is questionable.

they never showed me the fault codes.all done behind closed doors.i wasn't asked if i wanted to see the diag test being done.

 

From what i gathered from trading standards the car was peugeots responsibility until i had made my final payment which is in july coming.

Edited March 3, 2010 by bannblue

[scaniaman]

Heliosuk, does this story remind you of something?????????? It must be the same computer as Citroen in Coventry.

Here again is yet another example of Technology taken too far and is "OUTWITH NORMAL SERVICE CAPABILITY"

[heliosuk]

Now you mention it, it does actually. An inability of the PSA group Product development to understand what they have built and tell the dealers how to fix and service it.

 

I'd love to take my car in to a pug or ****reoen dealer to tell me why my engine MIL light is on and film it for youtube.

[heliosuk]

bannblue,

 

What TS have told you is wrong. The responsibility of Pug ends at the end of the manufactuers warranty. If you have another warranty this will be an insurance policy against mechanical failure, very different indeed.

 

In any way, the checks they did should have been down loaded and recorded on the job card, purely for audit purposes and to aid diagnosis. Sometimes there are too many to remember and are perhaps nebulous.

 

Just as a matter of intrest, have you changed any tyres lately as this is one of the most common things dealers miss as the systems are that sensitive now an ABS sensor will detect it and that is what all your lights are driven from.

[bannblue]

bannblue,

 

What TS have told you is wrong. The responsibility of Pug ends at the end of the manufactuers warranty. If you have another warranty this will be an insurance policy against mechanical failure, very different indeed.

 

In any way, the checks they did should have been down loaded and recorded on the job card, purely for audit purposes and to aid diagnosis. Sometimes there are too many to remember and are perhaps nebulous.

 

Just as a matter of intrest, have you changed any tyres lately as this is one of the most common things dealers miss as the systems are that sensitive now an ABS sensor will detect it and that is what all your lights are driven from.

 

 

Thanks for your reply,From reading my hire purchase agreement the car belongs to peugeot until such times as it is paid off which is in july but i will take your word for it.

 

I am currently not working at present so cannot afford to pay those twits £ 400 and I intend to trade the car in anyway as it's a pile of scrap and I personally wouldn't go near peugeot again.

 

No I haven't had tyres changed.The only thing I got done was ball joints replaced last year which I am led to beleive should have been done by pug by recalling the peugeot 407 but due to their greed this wasn't done.

 

I will never buy Peugeot again or french car for that matter.

Edited March 4, 2010 by bannblue

[heliosuk]

The agreement you have is to finance the car through Pug I reckon. This does not include the warranty.

 

This needs clarification. What finance agreement, Pug to buy the car, Pug contact/lease hire, Pug options scheme???

[bannblue]

The agreement you have is to finance the car through Pug I reckon. This does not include the warranty.

 

This needs clarification. What finance agreement, Pug to buy the car, Pug contact/lease hire, Pug options scheme???

 

Peugeot finance is what i was told when i first bought the car,then when i phoned them the other day they told me it was a hire purchase agreement.

 

I have made a complaint to peugeot ref the circumstances and they are due to get back to me next monday with reference to who pays for the repair etc.

 

I have the agreement that i signed in front of me,no mention of hire purchase or peugeot finance just stating conditional sale agreement regulated by consumer credit act etc etc.They seem to me to be hidden in the way they do things and the documents they supply you with.

 

I am sick to the back teeth with these people and will never have anything to do with them again.

[scaniaman]

It is unfortunate that you bought the latest 407 PUG. I too am having great trouble with citroen uk. a sister company.

It's a bit unfair to say bad things about a brand, as the previous models, in both our cases, were very fine cars indeed. The 405 & 406 diesel estates were excellent vehicles, and capable of high, trouble free milages, coupled with outstanding economy.

Part of todays unsatisfactory customer service, apart from the recession, is that manufacturers are having to spend mega bucks in meeting these ludicrous EU Regulations, which seem to be absorbing much of their resources.

It's times we dumped this EU outfit, and turned the clock back, until such times that the correct technology is in place to move forward without all these unsolvable problems.

Why manufacture something if you can't control it???

I'm sure if you bought an old PUG you would be highly delighted.

[bannblue]

It is unfortunate that you bought the latest 407 PUG. I too am having great trouble with citroen uk. a sister company.

It's a bit unfair to say bad things about a brand, as the previous models, in both our cases, were very fine cars indeed. The 405 & 406 diesel estates were excellent vehicles, and capable of high, trouble free milages, coupled with outstanding economy.

Part of todays unsatisfactory customer service, apart from the recession, is that manufacturers are having to spend mega bucks in meeting these ludicrous EU Regulations, which seem to be absorbing much of their resources.

It's times we dumped this EU outfit, and turned the clock back, until such times that the correct technology is in place to move forward without all these unsolvable problems.

Why manufacture something if you can't control it???

I'm sure if you bought an old PUG you would be highly delighted.

 

Don't get me wrong ,the best car i ever had was the peugeot 406 which i bought off the same garage.give me no problems at all.it's all these new electronic things and the ways of testing them and their failure to diagnose correctly what the fault is.

 

I was also under the impression that a dealership had to find out the fault not for me to pay for them to do it.then after finding the fault they could give me an estimated bill for repair.it's the underhand way in which they do things now that infuriates me and the extortionate prices.

Edited March 5, 2010 by bannblue

[bannblue]

I have spoken with a legal adviser who states quite clearly that under the sale of goods act 1979 that the vehicle is of satisfactory quality and under my terms and agreement the onus is on the finance company to repair my fault as it is an inherent fault ie not done by wear and tear of the vehicle.the finacial ombudsman has also been informed.

[jon888999]

I have spoken with a legal adviser who states quite clearly that under the sale of goods act 1979 that the vehicle is of satisfactory quality and under my terms and agreement the onus is on the finance company to repair my fault as it is an inherent fault ie not done by wear and tear of the vehicle.the finacial ombudsman has also been informed.

Subbing as I have a similar problem with a Peugeot 107 which peugeot are claiming isn't covered under the warranty.

It's clear that some Peugeot vehicles are unfit for purpose.

[bannblue]

Subbing as I have a similar problem with a Peugeot 107 which peugeot are claiming isn't covered under the warranty.

It's clear that some Peugeot vehicles are unfit for purpose.

 

I would say most are unfit for purpose.i recently spoke with a fella who works for peugeot as a salesman and he told me that the engines were fine but that the diagnostics tool was rubbish as was the electronics in the car.I will never have another peugeot,thats for sure.

[heliosuk]

I have spoken with a legal adviser who states quite clearly that under the sale of goods act 1979 that the vehicle is of satisfactory quality and under my terms and agreement the onus is on the finance company to repair my fault as it is an inherent fault ie not done by wear and tear of the vehicle.the finacial ombudsman has also been informed.

 

Perhaps you could answer post #8 which will enable us to determine exactly what is what because if you have given the legal advisor the information you posted here you could well find yourself very dissapointed and embarassed.

 

In relation to subbings comment about the diagnostics, it's not usually the diagnostics that are crap it's the people employed to use them.

 

In fact, the diagnostics are usually so good, current technicians don't understand what they tell you and that is where the problem lies. The onus is on the dealer to train the technicians and they just don't as this is a cost to them but they don't calculate the knock on effect on customer service. Conversley, the manufacturer expects them to be fully trained and up to speed and this does not just apply to technicians but sales people as well.

 

The trade pays peanuts to these guys and they get monkeys.

 

Another reason why this industry needs regulation and licensing!!

[bannblue]

The agreement you have is to finance the car through Pug I reckon. This does not include the warranty.

 

This needs clarification. What finance agreement, Pug to buy the car, Pug contact/lease hire, Pug options scheme???

conditional sale under the consumer credit act 1974.

[heliosuk]

All sales are conditional.

[bannblue]

All sales are conditional.

 

when i phoned peugeot finance they told me it was hire purchase so i'm confused.All it says at the top of my copy which they sent me is "conditional sale regulated by the consumer credit act 1974".

[heliosuk]

In that case you need to treat like a personal loan from the bank. The Finance co have lent you the money to buy it. So Pug finance, which is probably a French Bank like Credit Agicole have no legal obligations as regards the fault. Essentially you have a bank loan in simple terms.

 

So can you tell us what the warranty is you understand you have, was the car bought new, used or what?

 

Does the service book have a full history and on time and on mileage?

[bannblue]

In that case you need to treat like a personal loan from the bank. The Finance co have lent you the money to buy it. So Pug finance, which is probably a French Bank like Credit Agicole have no legal obligations as regards the fault. Essentially you have a bank loan in simple terms.

 

So can you tell us what the warranty is you understand you have, was the car bought new, used or what?

 

Does the service book have a full history and on time and on mileage?

 

I bought the car new, 4 1/2 years ago with a 3 year warranty.i took my car to different mechanics for service etc.I don't know where the service book is.

[bannblue]

from trading standardshttp://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/kent/factsheets/FS7NEW%20nov07%20responsible.pdf

[heliosuk]

Ok, say now we are clear ast to what is going on. On the basis of what you have said, I would think that you didn't take up the option of extending the "manufacturerswarranty" which is essentially the same as a used car warranty, which is not a warranty but an insurance policy against mechanical breakdown and as such also has conditions.

 

So we need to work out what has gone wrong and how to get around it.

 

Forget any claim against Pug or the finance co unless it's possible to provethat this is a common issue and subject to an "Pergouet service campaign". This should have been picked up when they looked at it and the diagnostics would have alerted them to it.

 

You need to ask for the fault codes from the job card. If not available then look under the bonnet and look for silver boxes and let me know the name on it.

 

Unless anyone can throw any light on it here, we need to know which manufactureres system its running on. Bosch is popular, Valeo or Delphi another. Unlikely to be Magnetti Marreli.

 

Worth a post on the Pug forums to find out what is what.

[bannblue]

Ok, say now we are clear ast to what is going on. On the basis of what you have said, I would think that you didn't take up the option of extending the "manufacturerswarranty" which is essentially the same as a used car warranty, which is not a warranty but an insurance policy against mechanical breakdown and as such also has conditions.

 

So we need to work out what has gone wrong and how to get around it.

 

Forget any claim against Pug or the finance co unless it's possible to provethat this is a common issue and subject to an "Pergouet service campaign". This should have been picked up when they looked at it and the diagnostics would have alerted them to it.

 

You need to ask for the fault codes from the job card. If not available then look under the bonnet and look for silver boxes and let me know the name on it.

 

Unless anyone can throw any light on it here, we need to know which manufactureres system its running on. Bosch is popular, Valeo or Delphi another. Unlikely to be Magnetti Marreli.

 

Worth a post on the Pug forums to find out what is what.

ok i will try and find out re the boxes.I didnt take out any additional cover.my head is spinning at the minute with people telling me one thing then somebody else telling me something completely different but i do appreciate your input.the financial ombudsman should know.

Edited March 11, 2010 by bannblue

[heliosuk]

That's often the problem on this forum bannblue. There are those who know and there are people who think they know.

 

Often you see the SOGA rules being shouted and six year rule but this is the top end of the law only. When you dig down to individual cases and case law it comes unstuck.

 

Lawyers can argue the case till the cows come home but it does not fix the predicament you are in.

 

You need the quickest possible fix at the least cost to you is how I now read it.

[bannblue]

That's often the problem on this forum bannblue. There are those who know and there are people who think they know.

 

Often you see the SOGA rules being shouted and six year rule but this is the top end of the law only. When you dig down to individual cases and case law it comes unstuck.

 

Lawyers can argue the case till the cows come home but it does not fix the predicament you are in.

 

You need the quickest possible fix at the least cost to you is how I now read it.

 

true enough but if no quick fix comes soon and it isn't sorted i will take the hit on it as i intend to trade the car in soon anyway,but yes i would prefer to trade it in fixed of course.