Log Book Loans - Can anyone help???

[JonCris]

Is there a "cooling off" period in the prominetly displayed on the docs. If you sign in your home there must be & if there isn't its another reason why their agreements are unforcable.

 

Having said that if they gave you the money there & then it would be if much of the rest of it where still not unforcable.

[attdt25]

hi just to let you all know i have reported log book loans to trading standards and hope that they will take up the investigation. i intend to go all the way as these people made my life a living nightmare and i have absolutely nothing to lose i have started a new thread so you can follow my progress and hope that along the way i can rely upon your advice and support......

[v_j_r]

Is there a "cooling off" period in the prominetly displayed on the docs. If you sign in your home there must be & if there isn't its another reason why their agreements are unforcable.

 

Having said that if they gave you the money there & then it would be if much of the rest of it where still not unforcable.

 

Simple but effective trick of the trade CCA's signed off of trade premises "No cooling off period" ie: customer has no rights of cancellation, on trade premises "Cooling off period" applies ie: customer has cancellation rights!.

 

Worth thinking about is the fact, what percentage of there business is done in this way? and one point you could make them aware of, start at the beginning and hit harder every time.

[JonCris]

vjr You have that the wrong way round.

 

On trade premises no cooling off. Off trade premises yes a cooling off period.

[v_j_r]

Not that simple trust me Read here:

 

Your legal rights when buying at home

When you buy goods in your home, the salesperson is immediately

placed in an advantageous position over you.

If you eventually decide that you do not wish to purchase the goods, you

may have difficulty in getting the salesperson to leave your home.

The law has tried to balance this disadvantage by giving the consumer the

right, in certain circumstances, to cancel agreements that are signed at

home.

These rights of cancellation are covered by The Consumer Protection

(Cancellation of Contracts Concluded away from Business Premises)

Regulations 1987 and The Consumer Credit Act 1974. Your rights depend

on whether you agreed to pay by cash, or the trader arranged finance for

you.

Cash Transactions

The Consumer Protection Regulations can give you a 'cooling off' period of

seven days when you sign an agreement for the supply of goods or

services, during an unsolicited visit by a trader.

What is a 'Cooling Off' Period?

This is a length of time that you have after signing an agreement, to cancel

without incurring a financial penalty, with no further obligations placed on

you.

1

What is an 'Unsolicited' Visit?

An 'unsolicited' visit means that you have not expressly requested the

salesperson to call: that includes appointments made as a result of

unrequested telephone calls, after delivery of a card proposing a visit or

after an unsolicited earlier visit by a salesperson.

What Contracts are covered?

The Regulations currently apply to most cash contracts over £35, and will

also cover agreements for the repair or improvements to property (e.g.

double glazing, fitted kitchen, central heating, loft insulation). Guests who

spend at least £35 at a 'party plan' will also have cancellation rights,

though as the hostess 'requested' the sale she will not be entitled to

cancel.

What Agreements are not covered?

The Regulations do not cover agreements for the sale of food and drink,

goods supplied by regular roundsmen (e.g. daily milk & newspaper

deliveries), agreements under £35 (inclusive of VAT & delivery charges),

agreements relating to land, construction or extension of property,

insurance and investment agreements. Catalogue goods that are ordered

through an agent are generally exempt from the regulations, provided that

the trader already allows the customer to return the goods within seven

days.

What must the Salesman do?

The salesman must give you a notice of your cancellation rights at the time

the agreement or offer is made. If he does not, the contract is null and void

and he may have committed a criminal offence. You are not penalised for

cancelling at any time within the cooling-off period. If you have paid a

deposit you can demand its return. To cancel the contract, either send the

cancellation notice or write to the trader, saying that you are cancelling the

contract in accordance with your legal rights. You must keep the goods

safe until the trader collects them.

Finance Transactions

When you sign a finance agreement in your home, the Consumer Credit

Act 1974 gives you a 'cooling off' period during which you can withdraw

from the agreement without incurring any financial penalty. 2

What Agreements are cancellable?

An agreement that includes 'face to face' negotiations with the trader.

(Discussions about the prospective agreement must take place in the

presence of the customer)

and

the finance element is arranged by the provider of the goods, as an agent

of the finance company (e.g. the double glazing company obtain finance

for you with a finance company)

and

the agreement is signed away from 'trade premises'. (These tend to be

agreements that you have signed in your own home).

What Agreements are not cancellable?

Agreements that are signed at the traders premises.

Agreements when you have arranged your own finance. (E.g. you have

taken out a loan with your bank). If the visit was unsolicited, you may still

have a cooling off period under The Consumer Protection (Cancellation of

Contracts Concluded away from Business Premises) Regulations 1987.

Agreements when the negotiations, before the contract is signed, did not

take place in the presence of the customer. (E.g. discussions over the

'phone).

What must the Salesman do?

You must be given a notice of your cancellation rights along with a signed

copy of the credit agreement. You will normally receive a second copy of

the agreement, by post, from the company with a notice of your

cancellation rights. However, if the agreement is executed when you sign it

(i.e. signed by both parties to the agreement), you will get a separate

notice of your cancellation rights sent to you by post. From the receipt of

this copy, you have a period of five days in which to cancel the finance

agreement and the contract for the supply of the goods.

How do I cancel the Agreement?

Take or send a written notice of cancellation to the finance company, or

their agent, within the cooling off period. (The cooling off period runs from

the date the agreement is signed until five days after you receive the

second copy.) 3

What if the Trader does not give me the Cancellation Notice?

If the trader fails to comply with the formal procedures set down by the

Consumer Credit Act 1974 the credit agreement may not be enforceable

by the company without a court order.

However, if you decide to cancel it is still advisable to inform the company

of your decision in writing within the five days from receipt of the second

copy of the agreement.

[JonCris]

Just have & it clearly states under what agreements are cancellable those signed OFF trade premises.

 

What agreements are NOT cancellable Agreements that are signed ON the traders premises

[hedgehog0045]

Hi again all,

 

I take it I am legally obliged to continue paying his loan until it is all paid off, my question is, can I calim anything back for the extortionate interest or am I lumbered with it?

[nellie75]

Hedgehog,

 

I was paying there loan at £200 a week until I just didn't have the money to do it due to work going down the pan, i went into arrears and like you they chased me and thretnend me even though i had no money at all and was claiming income support, asked them to wait because i had money coming through, they said no and wanted £44k or the car now and wouldn't wait, thats when i wrote to them a threatning email as you can read in my original post on this thread. Since them i have not heard one word, they obviously know i mean business and my plan is to pay them back nothing which i feel is compansation for all the harrassment and threatning behaviour that caused me upset, stress and being close to a breakdown, i don't intend them to get away with this and taking all the good advice on here to get through it and hopefully find a way of raising awareness of these sharks

[JonCris]

Hi again all,

 

I take it I am legally obliged to continue paying his loan until it is all paid off, my question is, can I calim anything back for the extortionate interest or am I lumbered with it?

 

Why?...did you sign on trade premises. By trade they don't mean the local pub or the supermarket car park.

 

Also as has been mentioned on numerous occasions their agreements are not enforcable for many reasons.

 

Of course their argument would be that they gave the money you have spent it & they want it back. You could unless you already have pay back the amount you borrowed then tell them to get notted for the interest as their agreement is unforcable.

 

On the otherhand you could just tell them to go away as previous posters have

[attdt25]

stated clearly on the original loan agreement that i have it says "once you have signed this agreement you have a short time to cancel it .We will send you exact details of how and when you can do this.If you cancel this agreement any money you have payed must be returned to you. You will still have to repay any money lent to you. But if you repay all of it before the first instament is due you will not have to pay interest or other charges. If this agreement is signed by you at trade premises this agreement is not cancellable and the rights set out under the heading your right to cancel do not apply and you have no right to cancel this agreement under the consumer credit act 1974, the timeshare act 1992 or the financial services (distance marketing)regulations 2004.

[JonCris]

They seem to have covered everything. Under just which law are they subject. I think they are there in the hope you will believe it & also to make their docs look more legal

 

Well the fact that they are claiming you can't cancel under the terms of the CCA 1974 says it all. That para alone makes their agreement unenforcable as its not only untrue but illegal to make such a claim & what the legal profession refer to as bull***t

[Boobaby]

Hi there

I think understand what is happening with these people and the fact that they can't enforce these agreements legally but where does that leave the rest of us that paid these inflated loans etc...? I have also put questions on my Log Book loan thread.

[nellie75]

I understand that agreements seem to be unenforcable but I need to know what I should do now. I have not been paying so do I wait untill they come to the door and demand car, clamp it etc or do I let them know that their agreements an unenforcable now. I am finding it hard to relax because its al 'up in the air'. Just feeling a bit jumpy after the nightmare the guy on the other Thread had when they took his car even though he didn't take out the loan. Am i ok to tell them what i know to avoid this i.e tell then by letter in advance or wait til they come out and tell them.

[JonCris]

Do you have anywhere you can stash your car? Because when you do write & tell them that your only willing to repay them the amount borrowed they won't care about the rules. Even after you have informed them be prepared for them to still try & take your car.

 

If they have already recovered what you borrowed they may decide to cut their losses & leave you alone.

 

So just what is the situation regarding payments?

 

Also order a replacement "log book" NOW in order than you can prove ownership should it be required.

[v_j_r]

@nellie75:

 

What was your original loan amount? and how much has been paid to date please?:o

 

Please give an accurate and honest figure!.

[nellie75]

The original amount i borrowed was 10k, I paid back around £2000, only intended to take loan untill house completion (2-4weeks) but house sale fell through, it is nearly completed again but they want 44k back, or the car. I have delayed them by sending the threatning email so i am hoping money will come through before they start up again. But no way am i paying back £44k, but if they get their hands on the car, it is worth about 18k and has a 22k number plate. The car is outside my house but i can move it if you think its wise. I did get replacement V5 and signed car over to my mum. Can they take it if its in her name?

[v_j_r]

The original amount i borrowed was 10k, I paid back around £2000, only intended to take loan untill house completion (2-4weeks) but house sale fell through, it is nearly completed again but they want 44k back, or the car. I have delayed them by sending the threatning email so i am hoping money will come through before they start up again. But no way am i paying back £44k, but if they get their hands on the car, it is worth about 18k and has a 22k number plate. The car is outside my house but i can move it if you think its wise. I did get replacement V5 and signed car over to my mum. Can they take it if its in her name?

 

I'll answer this thus, First off had you paid at least 1/3rd of the total amount of the loan that being 10K they would not be able to take the vehicle without a court order and/or warrant,the advantage of that scenario would be you would be able to attend any court hearing to defend there claim and state your case.

 

It would also be advantageous for yourself as there case would have to be presented with full documentation, the judge would then have to decide as to whether the agreement is enforceable and/or any other T&C 's of there claim, if not they would be unable legally to repossess the vehicle. You would then be able to file your defense & counter claim.

 

Also the other documents would also then have to filed and presented known as discovery, there second attack (The first being the agreement) upon yourself would then be i suspect the Bill of sale/Lien upon the vehicle would possibly fail as any lien has to actioned in the high court to be a legal and binding document.

 

I obviously cant advise you to move the vehicle or otherwise, but signing over to your mother in the same household is a no go?, this is where the legality of the bill of sale/lien comes in,it doesn't matter the lien is upon the vehicle not the registered keeper V5's are proof of registered keeper not the owner.

 

If the vehicle's not there or anywhere in the immediate area it's safe to a point if locked away somewhere until the legalities are sorted and or a defense and counter claim is filed, if without a court order the vehicle is repossessed (That being at least 1/3rd has been paid) and they force entry to wherever they think it is it would then be criminal damage & theft.

 

Be aware that these cr*t*ns will attempt to ascertain as to where the vehicle is especially some of the more persistent one's will even follow you in a hope to find what there looking for.

 

If as you say the plate is worth 22K remove it as it was not the original that was assigned to the vehicle it is private registration?.

 

Well there you go i hope some it helps you, and remember no claimants like full defense's & counter claims especially Lbl Ltd which included extortionate credit bargain amongst other matters when i filed mine it ran to 102 pages and it never got to court?.

[JonCris]

The suggestion to change the private number is a good one. Transfer it to another member of the family who lives a long way from you & doesn't visit. However still keep your car out of sight in case they twig.

 

Of course you could sell it, keep the money & private reg & buy something cheaper

[Blubata]

in the first instance ask them clearly to make all correspondence to you by writing, so you have evidence and refuse any phone calls.

Try letting them know about a few laws which are on your side, which include putting a stop to their phone calls if they try and start that business again, as it is in breach of the administration of justice act 1970, in that they are inended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. the phone calls can also fall under a criminal offence if they do not stop once you have asked them to, under section 127 of the communications act 2003.

Since the car is in your mothers name, if they take it, that is tantamount to theft as it is no longer you property, so they cannot take it, if they do, report them to the local cop shop asap for theft. Consumer direct have been really helpful to me, phone them, they will contact trading standards on your behalf, also let the FSA know. let us know how you get on.

[DoubleCheese]

There is some good advice in here, but I'm not sure changing the car into your mothers name will do any good other than aggrevate them further (the V5 only shows the keeper not the owner), and involve more people.

[Rob S]

The personal registration number doesn't even have to be transferred to another member of the family. All that has to be done is to arrange with DVLA to have a normal registration number allocated to the vehicle and place the personal plate on retention with DVLA. The number plate is nothing to do with the car and they won't be able to touch it.

[JonCris]

Correct it doesn't. Problem is if they do another check they are going to find out that the replacement reg. no. IS the same vehicle. Whereas if it appears to have been sold & to someone as far away as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nellie75]

Thanks for all the advise guys, can't believe i got involved with these idiots, i must be mad!

 

My Mum doesn't live at my address but doubt that makes a difference as the car is still here. And the number plate is clearly my first name!

 

Regarding transfering the registration, I think I will put it on retention, its just what to do with it long term? As said, its the car that they are after and can check with DVLA, but I was reading on their website that I do not actually own the number plate, I have rights to the number as the registered keeper of the car that it is on and certificate if its on retention. So in effect if they take the car they own the number plate also which scares me to death considering what its worth to me personally and money wise. Best thing as said I think, is to get it on retention untill i get it sorted, its just time thats against me, process can take up to 6 weeks, didn't have any money to do it either but have got some now so will get wheels in motion - pardon the pun!

 

Despite the above, what I would like to do is sell the car, I sould trade it in for something similar. If I take it to the garage i bought it from they will transfer the number plate like they did for me when I bought it. Only one slight problem, lbl have registered the loan with HPI, so I guess I am stuck that way??

 

It was mentioned about paying off 1/3 and then they need a warrant, I actually thought they needed a warrant to actually take the car in any circumstances and I would then be able to defend the claim in court. If they don't need one the situation is more desperate than I thought and I am panicking a bit. I don't really have anywhere I can keep the car away from my house, main problem being that we only have one car as we sold my husbands to get money for other debts. Where I live is quite remote so not sure how I would get home if I parked it elsewhere! The only place I could leave it was at my mums but its her address its registered to now!!!!!

 

When I wrote to them and 'threatned' them with counter claims and negitive press etc they completely stopped contacting me. It was a letter from the balliffs that pushed me into getting so angry and writing to them. I did ring the balliffs and they were actually quite laid back about it saying they would hold the account but I told them there was no way i could, or would pay back the 44k they where asking for on a 10k loan. They said they would double check the amount that they were instructed to recover, but didn't hear from them again. I have presumed its still on hold from the phone call but i imagine they won't hold it much longer.

 

Anyone any ideas about the HPI situation? Seems my only option long term is to sell it but i am stuck.

 

Thanks so much for all your advice so far, has really helped me xx

[JonCris]

Unless the "loan" was HP they are not entitled to register the car. Contact HPI in writing & tell them that the information has been given unlawfully.

 

Also whilst I realize being without your car will represent some considerable hardship you need to remember these people don't appear to stick to the rules.. Its pretty certain that despite what the bailiffs say if you don't hide your car until this is sorted your going to wake up one morning & find it gone........probably permantly!

 

It may involve telling a friendly neighbour of your problems & asking them to put it into their garage

[nellie75]

Thanks joncris

 

I am still trying to work out best thing to do, we left the car in a street in the village last night and same tonight but I have just got a question, sorry if its a silly one but nobody here seems to have answer in my family. When a car is parked and locked with handbrake on, how do they actually move the car? With a towtruck do they not need the wheels to move to actually move it?? or do they have means of picking it up or can they drag it?

 

You are probably thinking ' do wot the heck you like then'!!

 

I would imagine they need a big truck and in a quiet cul-de-sack and a barking mad beagle dog in our house I can't imagine how they would do it without us knowing. I plan to hold my husband back and dial 999 in front of them. Point I am trying to make is that when the car was not here last night I was more nervous about it being taken than in our drive, I am going to start a thread on the balliffs section about this as I have heard some balliffs will follow you to find cars and i think i am dealing with sneaky type!!.

 

Thanks again and will keep you posted