Advent Computer Training (Barclays Partner Finance)Info and discussion thread

[skyblue dave]

Petition to: Request money back for students of the collapsed IT Firm Advent Consulting Ltd. | Number10.gov.uk

[MARTIN3030]

Fuzzbutt, has your complaint with the FO reached 8 weeks yet? Or for that matter has anyone else's??? If so what is the outcome so far?

 

 

Unfortunately,the Financial Ombudsman has shown themselves to be a waste of time for 1000s of CAG members over the last couple of years.

They are over stretched,under funded,and some of our members have been waiting over 12 months for any decision.

They say that you should exhaust the 8 weeks time scale with your lender FS provider then go to them.

Unfortunately this is not the begining -you will find the FOS then has to wait for responses and exchanges from the lender-and you are unlikely to get much more response aside from a monthly letter telling you how busy they are and that you are in their queue.

[cjclegg]

Unfortunately,the Financial Ombudsman has shown themselves to be a waste of time for 1000s of CAG members over the last couple of years.

They are over stretched,under funded,and some of our members have been waiting over 12 months for any decision.

They say that you should exhaust the 8 weeks time scale with your lender FS provider then go to them.

Unfortunately this is not the begining -you will find the FOS then has to wait for responses and exchanges from the lender-and you are unlikely to get much more response aside from a monthly letter telling you how busy they are and that you are in their queue.

 

Thanks for the info Martin, is the best suggestion small claims court then?

[MARTIN3030]

Where there is a clear right of action I think yes.

Is it possible that someone could post up a copy of their agreement here (removing any identifiers)

It will help experienced members to give opinions and thoughts as to how to proceed.

I would like to know why a reputable company who have lots of experience in training provision and came here offering to help were seemingly ignored completely by Barclays.

My thoughts are that their alternative provider took so long to find because it suited their OWN agenda.

 

8 weeks to find a replacement is highly questionable.

 

BTW-The offer was made on 8th February !!!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/students/246420-nitlc-offer-barclays-bank.html

Edited March 28, 2010 by MARTIN3030
Adding further info

[MARTIN3030]

Quote;

 

"I have found out more from NITLC than Barclays have told me since january when we found out that advent had gone into administration.

 

Computeach - the alternative provider, do not appear to do the CISCO route, so they dont actually offer the course that we started???? Does this mean that barclays are in Breach of contract? They told us that they would provide equal or better alternative but they dont even appear to d the course we are signed up for? Can I claim the monies so far paid out to them, having received no exams or anything from Advent. All we have had is some books and no more before they went bust."

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Understandably NITLC have to be careful what they say,but it appears they have been quite helpful to some students asking questions.

[Bluedo]

Someone posted this earlier.

 

[Bluedo]

sorry be back in a min

[10pack]

Someone posted this earlier.

 

 

Total Payable £12,305.76 ...kin eck I see your agreement is over 59 months .

 

my agreement was for 36 months.. but I do not have any interest charges its 0% showing.. even though my initial amount of money I was financed was exactly same as yours.. why did advent do this? why offer so many different loans.

I paid £500 up front(I assume advent took this) the amount outstanding £5,450.

I did not get any training.. I had a test of some kind that was sent to me and I passed that but it was so close to Christmas when I enroled and with me going abroad over the new year I told them to wait until I got back on 18th Jan for initial workshop day and course material and did not hear anything from advent until the email arrived saying thanks guys..its been good but I got to run

[Bluedo]

Hi mate here is the link to download this zip file it has the barclays agreement and T&C's mate, its free and virus free --- barclays.zip

advent.zip & this link is for the advent T&C's, hope that helps

 

Rage to the rescue again if it helps Martin

[Bluedo]

It is now 8weeks since Advent ceased to trade, Barclays have replied to any letters requesting cancellation by generic letters of we are sourcing a new provider any telephone conversations have all had the same reply's from them " you can't Cancel you need to accept the new provider you have no choice if you don't accept new provider you're still liable and must pay .

 

On 11/3/10 the interest free period was to end where the lump sum was to be paid On the 1st march I got the account on hold and a letter confirming this they told me to cancel DD On 16th they added £20 charge for non payment They've added interest at 29.8% more than doubled the debt. On the 22nd received a notice given under the CCA1974 notice of default sum.

With Help I have drafted a letter to send to them.

 

TS initally told me it is a link loan and BPF are jointly Liable then Next meeting they said I could be forced to pay but to wait till they find new provider and if that is not suitable then we have a case for refund but may take a judge to decide that.

2 lawyers have told me I can't get out of this I need to pay. I disagree

I have only reported here what I've been told .

We have approached Lawyers concerning a class Action Lawsuit but have had no replies.

Thank you for helping us

[MARTIN3030]

Rage to the rescue again if it helps Martin

 

Ah great thanks.

 

I thought it had been posted before but couldnt find.

[cyberart]

Guys we need 7 more signatures

 

Petition to: Request money back for students of the collapsed IT Firm Advent Consulting Ltd. | Number10.gov.uk

[wizard21]

I called CompuTeach on Friday afternoon as I'm on the Cisco certification route and they don't offer that on the website - however they told me that they would be honouring all of the course sold by Advent and will get me my CCNA certification so thats another route of the window.

 

Without meaning to sound negative, I think that Barclys may well have fulfilled their side of the agreement by offering us the same certification path as Advent. That is a shame for all of you who now have decided you want a refund, but consider the case from this point of view before you go to court.

 

1. If Advent hadn't gone bust, you would still all be liable for the 29.8% APR loans. This is therefore a moot point - we all signed this agreement and Advent going bust is no excuse to complain about the terms.

2. The getting you a job part, as I've posted before, is also a moot point as they DID look to get you into work once you had passed the first MCP. And all they did was set you up with interviews and give you interview tips - the rest is down to you.

 

As long as I get my MCSE I don't care as that is the important thing here. This crap about making sure certifications are up to date too.... we signed up for MSCE's, not MCITP's so again a moot point.

 

About the MCSE being dead: well that is rubbish anyway, as XP and Server 2003 are still the standard infrastructure OS's in most large corporations and will continue to be as the cost getting Windows 7 and Server 2008 enterprise deployed across an entire estate would far outweight the benefits at the moment. It is also very easy and inexpensive to upgrade an MCSE in XP and 2003 to newer more relevant Windows 7 certs when required. I have colleagues who wasted money getting certified in Windows Vista so that is another minefield.

 

As with all distance learning you get out what you put in - Advent's biggest crime wasn't the standard of training which was actually decent, but the manner in which it sold courses to people who only saw "average salary of 37K" and didn't consider that it was going to be hard, and wouldn't happen overnight.

[MARTIN3030]

6 Now

[MARTIN3030]

I called CompuTeach on Friday afternoon as I'm on the Cisco certification route and they don't offer that on the website - however they told me that they would be honouring all of the course sold by Advent and will get me my CCNA certification so thats another route of the window.

 

Without meaning to sound negative, I think that Barclys may well have fulfilled their side of the agreement by offering us the same certification path as Advent. That is a shame for all of you who now have decided you want a refund, but consider the case from this point of view before you go to court.

 

1. If Advent hadn't gone bust, you would still all be liable for the 29.8% APR loans. This is therefore a moot point - we all signed this agreement and Advent going bust is no excuse to complain about the terms.

2. The getting you a job part, as I've posted before, is also a moot point as they DID look to get you into work once you had passed the first MCP. And all they did was set you up with interviews and give you interview tips - the rest is down to you.

 

As long as I get my MCSE I don't care as that is the important thing here. This crap about making sure certifications are up to date too.... we signed up for MSCE's, not MCITP's so again a moot point.

 

About the MCSE being dead: well that is rubbish anyway, as XP and Server 2003 are still the standard infrastructure OS's in most large corporations and will continue to be as the cost getting Windows 7 and Server 2008 enterprise deployed across an entire estate would far outweight the benefits at the moment. It is also very easy and inexpensive to upgrade an MCSE in XP and 2003 to newer more relevant Windows 7 certs when required. I have colleagues who wasted money getting certified in Windows Vista so that is another minefield.

 

As with all distance learning you get out what you put in - Advent's biggest crime wasn't the standard of training which was actually decent, but the manner in which it sold courses to people who only saw "average salary of 37K" and didn't consider that it was going to be hard, and wouldn't happen overnight.

 

 

Good points Wizzard.

The Cisco issue is still a contention then ?

There are some students whose accounts are way outside the 5k ceiling for small claims,which obviously leaves exposure to costs.

I understand that some victims have contacted no win no fee firms but that nothing has followed-I think thats because no win no fee firms are reluctant to take on cases which are not cut and dried-and are perhaps therefore not wanting to take the chance.

Barclays legal teams will by no means take any challenge lying down-which may be another factor.

[Mustard2243]

Is everyone going Mad?

 

It is computeach the biggest [problem] artists of the lot, it is starting to sound like everyone is capitulating.

 

They can't force us to accept anything they offer!!!!

[cjclegg]

Is everyone going Mad?

 

It is computeach the biggest [problem] artists of the lot, it is starting to sound like everyone is capitulating.

 

They can't force us to accept anything they offer!!!!

 

 

With you all the way Mustard, there is a moral fight on here as well as a legal one..... We signed with Advent, not Computeach and most of us did research course providers prior to taking the plunge, I want what I signed for from the provider I chose. As Martin pointed out earlier, BPF have chosen Computeach as it fits their agenda not ours.....

[Mustard2243]

Not only that but Hitachi Capitol have started refunding people, well at least one as shown on the facebook group.

[MARTIN3030]

It might be an idea to try to find out from the ones HF have refunded what prompted it.Whether they wrote threatening action,cited CCA or whatever.

[Fuzzbutt]

I understand where you are coming from Fuzzbutt, but essentially we have had our course stopped for 2 months now, which has to count for something with regards to the issue brought up above.... How can we complete part of a course with no provider, no exams and course material?

Again we are at the mercy of others...

 

Yes I agree, and that must surely be the breach of contract that should end this nonsense without anything else needed.

I've no wish to continue either and just want a refund now, but I think it's important to try to establish what Computeach are actually offering, which is what the 'like-for-like' argument will hinge on. The more holes that can be found in how up to date the material they are offering is, or what they are missing, will provide ammo to undermine BPF claim they are an acceptable provider.

 

I have sent my after-8-weeks complaint to the Ombudsman now - yesterday in fact. They have already sent an initial letter so the ball is rolling, but (as Martin says) there is a lot to be desired in the FO service so I'm not relying on them for any justice.

[Fuzzbutt]

Here's the Compteach confirmation letter from BPF for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

 

Sorry - can't seem to get it full size!

Edited March 28, 2010 by Fuzzbutt

[wizard21]

I am by no means capitulating - however I am being realistic.

 

The like for like argument will NOT stand up. The MCSE is for Windows XP and Server 2003 - not 7 or Vista or Server 2008 enterprise. We all signed up for an MCSE. BPF have arranged for us to get our MCSE - therefore, the replacement IS like for like. If Advent hadn't gone bust, we would be studying for MCSE - would you then be demanding that they put us on a Windows 7 route free of charge? I know what the answer would be.

 

Thanks Martin - I am only trying to be constructive here as any legal challenge will need to be watertight, and so far BPF have covered themselves on all fronts as far as I can see, apart from some flimsy "mis sold" courses that funnily enough people have only started to complain about when it looks like they may be able to get a refund.

 

Computeach are like for like - and even if there are plenty of internet sites that say Computeach are rubbish, you will find just as many saying Advent were rubbish.

 

The "it's too far away" argument is also laughable as Computeach are about 5 miles away from Advent, Kidderminster to Dudley.

 

The only route to a refund is that we DID NOT CHOOSE Computeach and therefore should get our money back, however I don't think any judge will give a full refund to someone who has been enrolled on a distance learning course for 12 + months and hasnt even sat an exam yet.....

[Fuzzbutt]

Yes I agree on the 'did not choose' and, so far as I understood it from local TS that should be sufficient for a refund under Breach of Contract. But they did warn me that Barclays will play on the fulfilling the contract by providing the alternative. Now, I don't know quite what is cast iron legally here, and I'm waiting for that reply now from a solicitor looking at the contracts.

[Mustard2243]

He sent two letters out, much like i/most of us have done.

[skyblue dave]

Fuzzbutt. Thanks for the copy of the letter. Unfortunately, it's too small to see.

I guess I will get my letter tomorrow, but I am keen to know the gist of it.

If possible could you post the main points.

What is the next step, for example. Do you have to contact Computeach to tell them your course details etc ?

Does it mention that people who have frozen their accounts have to now unfreeze them.

Any info would be appreciated.