Hi mate, Have you got a copy of your Advent contract with an end date? When did you sign up? I'm sure mine had a target date of 2 years but support for 4 - but that was an informal arrangement?

I'm with BPF, but I think that Computeach have got access to the whole database of ADvent students, hence why you have all got emails too. I'm pretty sure that if you "verified", they would then send you the "financial outlay" required to finish the course. But DON'T verify yourself to them, as this is an indication that you accept Computeach and may endanger any chance of a refund. If anyone wants to know what exams to take to get certified and what books to buy, PM me and i'll let you know - my employer is an MS Gold partner so we have access to a lot of training material that I can recommend

Appreciated - however, knocking the MCSE certification that is difficult to achieve and people here are striving so hard to get is not supportive of the situation. I know that your intentions are good Bluedo, and I can tell that you're worried about the situation. So am I - I'm getting pressure from work, my girlfriend is pregnant and all in all the 6450 debt with Barclays is just a chunk of my overall debt issue. We can get through all of this and get a satisfying conclusion for all - apart from BPF and Computeach of course.

I don't live too far from Brum but I normally go to the Prometric centre up the road from work and then make up the time, not needing to use my annual leave... yet more reasons why Computeach are no good to a lot of people!!

Just checked Computeach's FAQ's and another interesting nugget of information - they only let you sit exams at their exam centre. Again - different to Advent, who let you sit exams at Prometric centres near your house. Also looks to me like the course structure is different - you pass an online mock, then go in for a workshop and then take the real exam at the end of the workshop.. interesting.

I've also received the email.... and i've skimmed through it and the gist of it is:- I would advise everyone NOT to login using the credentials in the email and "verify" yourself. The email says: "Here you will be able to confirm that the contact details we have for you are correct. You will be able to update your email and postal address as well as telephone numbers at this site. By doing so, we will assume that you want to continue your training (and are happy for us to use your records as set out below)" but also goes on to say:- "We realise that the recent events with the Company will have been unsettling for you and have interrupted the flow of your studies and we are keen to get you started again as soon as possible. We expect that the verification process will take approximately 2 weeks and then we expect to be able to get you back on track with your goal of a new or improved career in IT. For this brief period, we will be unable to answer questions about the specifics of your training whilst we work to integrate the data from the Company's systems with our own" So basically, agree to use us, but we won't answer specifics on your courses. What a joke.

Point A is sort of true but not entirely accurate - check the Microsoft MCSE requirements. I know guys who have gone from zero to MCSE in 6 months with no IT industry experience using self study courses. Extremely difficult but not impossible. Point B is way off being true - MCSE is still the industry standard and most of the MCSE core exams are key to any further qualifications in 7 or Vista. Check cwjobs.co.uk if you think that MCSE is no longer relevant. Point C is also false and even if it was true, it's hard to prove that as quantifiable information and cannot be used as an argument for missold goods. This is not a money-making scheme for BPF and training companies - it's just that the industry needs to be regulated a lot more on how/who they sell courses to, in my opinion. Despite what they guys on the link that you posted say (a 5 year old forum topic by the way), the industry still loves an MCSE and the money is still there for skilled guys. To anybody reading this, if you like IT do NOT let this saga put you off. Get into 1st Line Support somewhere and you will learn faster than with any self study course. We should concentrate on the big issue here - Computeach's offer is simply not good enough. 1. No resits 2. Time limitations 3. Total lack of classwork training (as kindly evidenced by Martin) 4. I'm pretty sure that the course is much cheaper than Advent's? 5. Computeach are also in financial difficulties, who is to say that they will not go under? 6. An already disillusioned student base that is about to be flooded. Is it worth getting the FOS involved? Will they even do anything? My colleague at work got a full refund in a similar situation to this thanks to the FOS. Again, BPF - and he was promised a job. They arranged alternative training but it was rubbish, and he got a full refund ordered from BPF...... i'll ask him who he trained with.

Here you go mate - This is my Advent MCSE + ANS + CCNA course, in full. A+ Essentials A+ Technician (A+ Certified) Supporting Users & Troubleshooting MS Windows XP (MCP certified) Supporting Users & Troubleshooting Desktop Applications in MS Windows XP (MCDST certified) Installing, Configuring & Administering XP Professional Installing, Configuring & Administering Windows 2003 Server Edition Planning, Implementing, Administering & Maintaining Windows Server 2003 Network Infrastructure (MCSA certified) Planning, Implementing & Maintaining Windows Server 2003 Active Directory Infrastructure Implementing and Managing Microsoft Exchange Server 2003 Designing a Microsoft Exchange Server 2003 Organisation (I think this is the MCSE done, but not sure) Designing Security for a MS Windows Server 2003 Network (MSCE Messaging Specialist) Implementing and Administering Security in a Windows Server 2003 Network (MCSE Security) COMPTIA A+ Security Cisco CCNA Not sure what exams give what, but the MCSE is the A+, 2 exams for DST, 3 exams for MCSA and then another 3 for MCSE.

Very very interesting Fuzzbutt, especially the part about "we don't cover resits unfortunately"... Advent did, and it was a large part of the appeal of the course - no more hidden fees. I know that everyone thought I was "pro-Barclays" from my original posts (which is bull - i'm just pro-common sense and getting my sodding certs which my employer wants me to get) but this development is very interesting. Rather than reject Computeach out of hand, I thought that I would take a look at what they offer and so far it has been disappointing. I called them on Friday for clarification as i'm on the Cisco CCNA path and was told that they had taken people on specifically to do the CCNA course - so i'm getting my training from the new guys basically. I actually contacted 3 distance providers when I first became interested in IT distance learning. The first was Advent, who contacted me within 24 hours and arranged a meeting with a salesman the next day. SkillsTrain couldn't arrange a meeting for a week, by which time I'd already signed with Advent. The third was Computeach. They contacted me in September 2008 - while I was in my workshop with Advent, and 3 months after my initial enquiry. My main issue here is that I don't want to be waiting any longer to get my training, if I was still with Advent I would be on Network Infrastructure now (otherwise known as "the beast") and on course to have my MCSE by early next year. I'm working in IT, can get my exams paid for by my employer, and just want the whole saga ended. Points to reference with Computeach that I am not happy about:- 1. A time limit on the course. If they say "you need to finish your MCSE in 18 months from X date" then fine, but they can't stiff me by telling me that I was with Advent for 18 months and only have 6 months left. I signed up when you paid for a package - not later on, when Advent started to sell courses in access time rather than certs, ie 2500 per 12 months of study. This is how i'm assuming that Computeach sell their courses. 2. They don't deal with resits? Erm, if I wanted to book an exam and then worry about how i'm going to pay for it if I fail, i'll just pay the 80 quid thanks. Either way the bottom line is that Advent paid for unlimited resits - therefore this is a MAJOR difference in the training provision. 3. The "internal mocks".. Advent had the same thing, however I passed a mock at 78%, sat the real exam the next week and passed easily with Advent. It's hard to be motivated to do a meaningless mock when you have worked all day and you know that it's just going to lead to a real exam. Again - Advent had no "mock exam" criteria so another difference between the two Sorry for rambling... i'd better click post now before my eyes go funny

I cant find my Advent paperwork right this second, but i'm sure that it said target course completion 2 years but support for 4? In which case Computeach will give me 4 years support or otherwise the deal is breached.

Whoa whoa, im not supportive of Barclays and I agree that we should not be forced to accept a provider that we didn't choose. If time was turned back, I still would have chosen IT distance learning as so fair it has done me far more good than bad. 18 months ago I worked on a building site. Now I work for a major financial institution and love my work. Expensive yes, but worth it in the long run. I agree that Advent should have carried out much more extensive vetting of students, however surely the student should have done a bit of research before forking out over 6 grand??? How long does it take to go to Advent's website, see the course path and type in the certs into Google to see what they entail, and then think "hmm, could I do that?" I feel for the people who think that they were somehow "hoodwinked" into these courses as i know that Advent did enrol a lot of people who simply couldn't do the course. I attended the second A+ workshop with a young lad who had failed the first exam 5 times. He had no chance of getting an MCSE, but had paid 5 grand for one. Whose fault is that - his or Advents? It seems to me like a lot of people are happy about the demise of Advent as it gives them an avenue to complain for a refund for something that they were tied into and wanted out of anyway because they couldn't (or couldn't be bothered) to do it. What about the people who were happy with Advent and were getting certified for their job? 10Pack - my plan is to enrol with Computeach and if i fail their "internal" exam, i'll get work to pay for my 270 and 290. If I pass, I go back to Barclays with a solid case saying that these guys are no good - they are holding me back, give me back my money. I appreciate you giving me a heads up on how Computeach work though.

I am by no means capitulating - however I am being realistic. The like for like argument will NOT stand up. The MCSE is for Windows XP and Server 2003 - not 7 or Vista or Server 2008 enterprise. We all signed up for an MCSE. BPF have arranged for us to get our MCSE - therefore, the replacement IS like for like. If Advent hadn't gone bust, we would be studying for MCSE - would you then be demanding that they put us on a Windows 7 route free of charge? I know what the answer would be. Thanks Martin - I am only trying to be constructive here as any legal challenge will need to be watertight, and so far BPF have covered themselves on all fronts as far as I can see, apart from some flimsy "mis sold" courses that funnily enough people have only started to complain about when it looks like they may be able to get a refund. Computeach are like for like - and even if there are plenty of internet sites that say Computeach are rubbish, you will find just as many saying Advent were rubbish. The "it's too far away" argument is also laughable as Computeach are about 5 miles away from Advent, Kidderminster to Dudley. The only route to a refund is that we DID NOT CHOOSE Computeach and therefore should get our money back, however I don't think any judge will give a full refund to someone who has been enrolled on a distance learning course for 12 + months and hasnt even sat an exam yet.....

I called CompuTeach on Friday afternoon as I'm on the Cisco certification route and they don't offer that on the website - however they told me that they would be honouring all of the course sold by Advent and will get me my CCNA certification so thats another route of the window. Without meaning to sound negative, I think that Barclys may well have fulfilled their side of the agreement by offering us the same certification path as Advent. That is a shame for all of you who now have decided you want a refund, but consider the case from this point of view before you go to court. 1. If Advent hadn't gone bust, you would still all be liable for the 29.8% APR loans. This is therefore a moot point - we all signed this agreement and Advent going bust is no excuse to complain about the terms. 2. The getting you a job part, as I've posted before, is also a moot point as they DID look to get you into work once you had passed the first MCP. And all they did was set you up with interviews and give you interview tips - the rest is down to you. As long as I get my MCSE I don't care as that is the important thing here. This crap about making sure certifications are up to date too.... we signed up for MSCE's, not MCITP's so again a moot point. About the MCSE being dead: well that is rubbish anyway, as XP and Server 2003 are still the standard infrastructure OS's in most large corporations and will continue to be as the cost getting Windows 7 and Server 2008 enterprise deployed across an entire estate would far outweight the benefits at the moment. It is also very easy and inexpensive to upgrade an MCSE in XP and 2003 to newer more relevant Windows 7 certs when required. I have colleagues who wasted money getting certified in Windows Vista so that is another minefield. As with all distance learning you get out what you put in - Advent's biggest crime wasn't the standard of training which was actually decent, but the manner in which it sold courses to people who only saw "average salary of 37K" and didn't consider that it was going to be hard, and wouldn't happen overnight.

It's very valiant what you are all doing here, however I think that any compensation will come from BPF not being able to source a provider in time. I was with Advent from Aug 2008, and here is my experience that is relevant to what has been said on here in recent weeks. 1. About finding you a job. I got two interviews through Advent and one concrete job offer that I rejected as I had another IT offer the same day for my current job. That was in September 2008. They only started looking for jobs for you once you had got through some of the course, ie A+ or DST. They never mentioned a guaranteed job, just a "recruitment division" and you had to contact them. No point them looking for a job for you before you pass an exam. 2. One thing that I noticed once you get to MCSA/MCSE level is that in the books it does say that you need to have worked in IT for a number of months before attempting the course - this could be a potential route for misselling the course and also the timescale - an MCSE requires at least 18 months IT experience before STARTING the 4 core exams. 3. I think that any mass action case will be damaged be people who started the course and then just couldnt be bothered to do it and now see this as a way out of paying for it. I met a few people on Advent workshops that were doing the first workshop after a year of study. Now, that basically means that they either thought that the course was going to be really easy and did no research into the certifications, or they couldnt be bothered. 4. I honestly think that the best route for our money back is the amount of time we are going without a provider. I need my MCSA to progress in my job (I already passed DST) and work will pay for it, however i dont want them to pay for something that I have already paid for! I've sent two complaint letters off to Barclays and if I get no response by Thursday, its the FO on Friday. I could have passed two exams by now, i was ready to sit them and requested mock codes from Advent shortly before the fateful email. And lastly, Advent themselves DID help me. They gave me confidence to pass exams, and helped me with getting a job. It was expensive and looking back I probably could have done MCSE + CCNA for 1500 quid getting the books and exams myself. However, the only issue is price - the training that Advent provided was of a good standard and I and many others that I met at workshops think that Advent helped me with my career. You got out what you put in. My issue here is with BPF, who should have issued refunds the moment that Advent went under. That said, I want my money back so that I can complete my training at my own pace, and I applaud what you guys are doing as you all seem to be in much worse positions than me. Keep it up, and apologies if anything above seems negative or critical of anybody here.

I won't stop my studying - I work in IT now and know how important having that MCSE is - you can only get so far without one! I got my job based on the fact that I would eventually be an MCSE. Although I do think that some of the criticism of Advent is unfair as the trainers did seem to genuinely what us to succeed, how the hell the expect you to become ANS + CCNA in 2 years is beyond me. Exams required - 2 x A+ exams 2 for DST 3 for MCSA 3 for MCSE 1 MCSE Security 1 MCSE Messaging 1 for ANS 1 for CCNA 14 exams in 24 months? The way that Advent structure the workshops works like this example Jan 10 - start course, pass online exam, get first A+ book. Feb 10 - Get invites to March worshops March 10 - Go to March workshop, sit exam OUTSIDE of workshop, pass. Get second A+ book. Apr 10 - Get invites for May workshop, sit exam, pass, get first DST book. May 10 - Get invites for June workshop Jun 10 - Attend workshop, pass exam, get 2nd DST book Jul 10 - Get invites for August August 10 - Worshop, exam pass, 1st MCSA book Sep 10 - invites for Oct Oct 10 - Workshop, exam pass, 2nd MCSA book Nov 10 - Invites for Dec Dec 10 - Workshop, exam pass, 3rd MCSA Jan 11 - invites for Feb Feb 11 - Workshop exam pass 1st MCSE Mar 11 - Invites for Apr Apr 11 - Workshop exam pass 2nd MCSE May 11 - Invites for June Jun 11 - Workshop exam pass 3rd MCSE Jul 11 - Invites for Aug Aug 11 - Workshop exam pass MCSE Sec Sep 11 - Invites for Oct Oct 11 - Workshop exam pass MCSE Mess Nov 11 - Invites for Dec Dec 11 - Workshops exam pass ANS Jan 12 - Invites for Feb Feb 12 - Workshop exam pass CCNA Mar 12 - Invites for Apr Apr 12 - Workshops exam pass course complete. So that is 28 months to pass a course that Advent say "on average" takes 2 years to complete, and that is by dedicating your WHOLE LIFE to the course, understanding everything with virtually no Mentor help and only the workshops, assumes that you only take early month workshops in order to get the exam in before your next module workshop dates come out, don't take a holiday, use all of your annual leave at work to attend workshops, and basically full-time study a SELF-PACED learning kit...

Sorry to the member who asked about my post and sorry if this is isn't what you asked (about to go to work AGAIN) but my agreement is also with Clydesdale/BPF and it ALSO says that the CCA covers my loan. However, they are denying ANY refunds and also say that if they find alternative training we must honour the agreement as per the terms. 1. The "terms" are for ANS + CCNA paid for by BPF on behalf of Advent. I paid off my loan to BPF before making a payment and i paid a grand off with my CC, so will this help a claim under S75? Why should I expect an alternative when no mention of an alternative is mentioned in my Agreement? 2. What if i'm not happy with the alternative? Advent was 29 miles away from home. My girlfriend is 3 months pregnant and I don't want to be spending 2 nights away from home every month to sit exams... that's why i signed up for a provider within driving distance. BPF surely can't MAKE me take a course in London or Glasgow??

Hi all, been following this thread with interest since the news of Advent's demise as I am also a student. Here is my story with trying to get some answers. I called Barclays Partner Finance today and she said that Advent themselves have not notified BPF that they are in administration - therefore, we all have to honour our credit agreements providing that they can secure a different training provider. She said that our credit agreements are not covered under section 75 (although when i challenged this she did just say that this is what they have been told to tell people). So, Barclays think that Advent haven't gone bust - they have just ceased trading with Barclays. Surely, our credit agreements can't be declared enforceable if the service that we signed up for cannot be provided by the provider of our choosing??? What kind of Consumer rights do we have, when we can have an "equivalent" forced on us without our agreement? Something is seriously rotten with this whole setup.