CCA request

[bobdauilda]

I have received a letter back from the Yankbank regarding my CCA request and all they have sent is a copy of the original application form, on the back of which is printed the 'conditions of use' of such card together with a copy of the current T&Cs but no copy of the original T&Cs.

 

Can anyone tell me what I should do next?

 

Dotty has had similar problems and I think she sent a letter saying that the company had not sent a copy of the 'executed credit agreement' which is what a CCA request is for. So am I right in thinking that a copy of the signed 'Application form' is not sufficient as a true copy of the 'executed credit agreement'? If so, how do they differ? Should I send a letter of dispute regarding the account now or do I have to give them another 12+2 days to comply correctly?

TIA

Edited January 27, 2010 by bobdauilda

[nick20045]

I have received a letter back from the Yankbank regarding my CCA request and all they have sent is a copy of the original application form, on the back of which is printed the 'conditions of use' of such card together with a copy of the current T&Cs but no copy of the original T&Cs.

 

Dotty has had similar problems and I think she sent a letter saying that the company had not sent a copy of the 'executed credit agreement' which is what a CCA request is for. So am I right in thinking that a copy of the signed 'Application form' is not sufficient as a true copy of the 'executed credit agreement'? If so, how do they differ? Should I send a letter of dispute regarding the account now or do I have to give them another 12+2 days to comply correctly? If the original 12 +2 have past then send a letter of dispute.

TIA

Read the application form. Does it say things like "We can refuse your application"? Does it say things like "Application form for credit"?

 

An application form is not an agreement. It is a form where you fill in information to apply for something. Also for an agreement (somebody correct me if I am wrong) to be valid it has to talk about APR and has to show what credit limit you have.

 

I would take the template "letter of dispute" and amend it slightly to add that an application form is not a true copy of an executed agreement and put the account into dispute.

 

BUT REMEMBER.......... it can be in dispute but IF they send a copy of the agreement then it COMES OFF the dispute.

Edited January 27, 2010 by nick20045

[bobdauilda]

Thanks Nick your help is much appreciated. I have attached the scanned copies of their so called 'CCA' for you to look at. They have also enclosed an up to date T&Cs separately. They are still in the 12+2 limit so should I wait until this is up before I send a modified letter in dispute then?

 

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

 

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

Edited January 26, 2010 by bobdauilda

[nick20045]

IF it was to (let us say) go in front of a Judge it will look better if you write before. This will show that you assisted the bank in your querie.

 

Personally I would write to the bank. I will tell them that you requested a true copy of the agreement not the application form and that is what they have to send you. Also (do not forget every week has 2 days weekend plus it takes a day in the post so effectively you are only giving 4 days) I would tell them that in order to assist, the 12 + 2 days run out on the xx/xx/2010 and I am extending that date by 7 days.

 

The reason is, once again, IF it was to go in front of a Judge you were lenient and tried to assist. Goes in your favour.

 

As to the uploads I have tried to read them but even downloading a copy and enlarging it I still cannot read them.

 

The front part refers to Data Protection. It depends what it says you authorise them to do with your data. e.g. They can use it to market products. They can use it for administration.

 

This depends a lot on what is written. If we take the first example then, by rights if you default and let us say it goes against you in court, they cannot sell the debt to a DCA because you never gave them that right. Same for administration. They CAN authorise a DCA to administer the account BUT they cannot sell it. (So it becomes another loophole in your favour). Administer means "to manage" but does not mean to "Assign or sell".

 

But the second page, I cannot read anything except for the headings so I cannot say anything. Maybe somebody with better eyesight then me can help.

[Dotty50]

Hi Bob,

 

I was posting on the F & F thread and realised that was started by Fred oops, mustn't highjack that!

 

Well you have received more than anything they have sent me, still not had a sausage on the one MBNA CC and only a tear off slip for the other.

 

I have also had a letter today advising that my personal details may have been breeched ........but I can call them...............not sure if it is another one of their tactics to speak to me, so not planning on calling.

 

And most importantly.... ............. a good sob relieves a lot of tension but keep smiling...............takes less effort.

[bobdauilda]

IF it was to (let us say) go in front of a Judge it will look better if you write before. This will show that you assisted the bank in your querie.

 

Personally I would write to the bank. I will tell them that you requested a true copy of the agreement not the application form and that is what they have to send you. Also (do not forget every week has 2 days weekend plus it takes a day in the post so effectively you are only giving 4 days) I would tell them that in order to assist, the 12 + 2 days run out on the xx/xx/2010 and I am extending that date by 7 days.

 

The reason is, once again, IF it was to go in front of a Judge you were lenient and tried to assist. Goes in your favour.

 

As to the uploads I have tried to read them but even downloading a copy and enlarging it I still cannot read them.

 

The front part refers to Data Protection. It depends what it says you authorise them to do with your data. e.g. They can use it to market products. They can use it for administration.

 

This depends a lot on what is written. If we take the first example then, by rights if you default and let us say it goes against you in court, they cannot sell the debt to a DCA because you never gave them that right. Same for administration. They CAN authorise a DCA to administer the account BUT they cannot sell it. (So it becomes another loophole in your favour). Administer means "to manage" but does not mean to "Assign or sell".

 

But the second page, I cannot read anything except for the headings so I cannot say anything. Maybe somebody with better eyesight then me can help.

 

Thanks again- what site do you recommend to host the images so that they can be read clearly? This forum only allows very small uploads to it and will lose resolution on enlarging...

[Dotty50]

Nick, Do you want to borrow my glasses?

[bobdauilda]

try this instead?

JPEG_Output.PDF

[nick20045]

 

I have also had a letter today advising that my personal details may have been breeched ........but I can call them...............not sure if it is another one of their tactics to speak to me, so not planning on calling.

Nah! Do not call them. Get it in writing that hopefully you can sue them for damages. ;)

[nick20045]

Nick, Do you want to borrow my glasses?

Thanks for the offer but I have to decline. You have already told me that "You like to collect" and I do not like issuing IOUs even though you said you accept them. :D

[Dotty50]

Oh and I sent you a kiss as well!

[nick20045]

Well have read them and to me it looks ok except I do not like to read the words "Application form". But then again on the right hand side at the top it says "Credit agreement".

 

I am not an expert in discecting agreements/application forms and neither do I purport to be but, I do notice that there is:

 

1: No signature from anybody from the bank and

2: No amount of credit they gave you declared.

 

Now as far as I know (somebody correct me if I am wrong) for a contract to be binding it must be:

 

a: Signed by both parties and

b: Must show what you are getting for that signature and not just how much interest you are going to pay and what penalties they charge.

 

Maybe somebody can confirm or correct me on this????????

[bobdauilda]

Well have read them and to me it looks ok except I do not like to read the words "Application form". But then again on the right hand side at the top it says "Credit agreement".

 

 

when you say 'looks ok' do you mean its possibly enforceable?

 

There appears to be an indistinct signature type stamp going across the 'additional cardholder ' box... is that valid?

Edited January 26, 2010 by bobdauilda

[Dotty50]

On the first image in post 3, half way down the front, it looks as though it has been 'stamped' with a signature. I have seen this on a lot on others and I am sure I have read that this is considered to be executed.

 

In my experience, there was (and still is in the agreements I have access to) always a box for the creditor to sign and date, we never used stamps it would not have been compliant. I have not been in the industry for some time though now, so this may have changed.

 

Amount of credit should be there too, I believe.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Dotty50
missed word needed my glasses!

[bobdauilda]

Hmmm now I am in a pickle!

[nick20045]

I agree with Dotty. As far as I know (once again maybe somebody can confirm this) there should be a box for the signature and a date box. Fair enough might use a stamp in the box but it should be there. Also, the date will confirm when the agreement became binding.

 

One other thing: General vii. Be careful of that one. It means they can sell the debt and register a default on your credit reference.

[Dotty50]

They will do that anyway, irrespective of them having an enforcible agreement, Virgin MBNA just sold mine.

[bobdauilda]

dotty is being saucy!

Edited January 27, 2010 by bobdauilda

[nick20045]

Done. Dont forget to edit yours.

[nick20045]

They will do that anyway, irrespective of them having an enforcible agreement, Virgin MBNA just sold mine.

In the above copy it says they can assign to third parties. If it does not say that then you can challenge the fact that they passed on your personal data to a third party without your consent.

 

Have you had a DN issued re yours? Also have you had an NOA issued? Might be a way to challenge yours. Also, both of you :D have a good read of http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/240186-dissecting-manchester-test-case-58.html

 

go to post 1142

 

some very good reading as may apply to you especially re the PPI (if you had any sold to you) and the interesting parts also start from part 35 on the judgement. (Might possibly apply to you). If there has been an Unfair relationship you can use that. Do not just bet everything on the Consumer Credit Act.

[bobdauilda]

Thanks again Nick- your post number 2 still shows it though!

[nick20045]

a: In post #18 you asked me to edit and then you will edit your post. You have still left the information you asked me to edit in your post. (The part not in black).

 

b: When you say in my second post, I take it you mean whether you should wait until the 12 + 2 days are over whether to put in dispute and then tell them. I would still say you should write before you put into dispute. Asking a question or querying something shows you were exercising your right to knowledge.

 

What you have to consider is that a lot of Judges look at making a s.78 application as "I want to try and get out of paying". Sending a letter of query shows you did not just "go for a dispute but you asked and when not satisfied you put it in dispute". Shows better in a Court.

[bobdauilda]

Sorry if I didn't make it clear.

Edited January 27, 2010 by bobdauilda

[nick20045]

Done. Kindly confirm I understood correctly.

 

Also have a read of http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html

 

You should have a good idea when checking the application form/aggreement.

[bobdauilda]

Thank you Nick that's spot on.