Urgently need to know the difference between a CPR18, CPR 31.14 and CPR31.16

[stone-broke]

Have a read of the Embarressed Defence link I gave you and do a search (top of the page) and look for other examples.

 

Remind me of your timescales again - what is the date on your POC?

 

thanks,

 

M

 

 

Hi MandM,

 

I have not been on here for a good few days as normally I get an email telling me someone has responded!! Didn't happen for the last few posts!

I am getting a little anxious now as the Defence should be submitted by 12th February.

I have not responded to the letter I received from Shoosmiths either as I am unsure what to say. I am assuming they mean the extended 14 days is from when I receive the documentation I have asked for (or rather, what they are prepared to selectively send me).

Do you suggest that I just call the courts for advice, as I do not have a defence to put forward to the court at the moment and will not have one if they are being selective re what documentation I receive from them? If I have to do a defence on the Court's recommendation (for the 12th), what do I state?

[MandM]

Hi SB.

 

Your time is now very short!!! I would suggest that you go with an embaressed defence as said above. You need to get something into the court or you will lose by default! Have a read of this thread from post 52 onwards

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/238913-me-tesco-incasso.html

 

M

[stone-broke]

Hi SB.

 

Your time is now very short!!! I would suggest that you go with an embaressed defence as said above. You need to get something into the court or you will lose by default! Have a read of this thread from post 52 onwards

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/238913-me-tesco-incasso.html

 

M

 

 

Thank you M for the link. I've had a good read and wonder if I could use costa's defence but what is the CPR part 16 that is mentioned on it? Obviously some bits will not apply to me, but for quickness due to my lack of time to put in a defence on or before the 12th, it would be good to hear from you asap. Also, my PoC are vague so that part of the defence is similar!

 

I have time tomorrow to try to sort all this out. After phoning court I will find out if they have been made aware of Shoosmiths extension (that they have stated in their letter to me). That will be interesting to know as there's a possibility I would have missed out putting in a defence!

 

I am going to carry on searching on here for other embarrassed defences to see what is available and applicable to maybe take parts from!

 

Thanks again for your help so far

[MandM]

Thank you M for the link. I've had a good read and wonder if I could use costa's defence but what is the CPR part 16 that is mentioned on it? Obviously some bits will not apply to me, but for quickness due to my lack of time to put in a defence on or before the 12th, it would be good to hear from you asap. Also, my PoC are vague so that part of the defence is similar!

 

I have time tomorrow to try to sort all this out. After phoning court I will find out if they have been made aware of Shoosmiths extension (that they have stated in their letter to me). That will be interesting to know as there's a possibility I would have missed out putting in a defence!

 

I am going to carry on searching on here for other embarrassed defences to see what is available and applicable to maybe take parts from!

 

Thanks again for your help so far

 

Hi SB. Part 16 deals with Statements of Case and can be applied if their claim is poorly particularised, particularly useful if they've messed around with the CPR requests.

 

Definately check that the court have written confirmation from them for this 'extension' and that you confirm to the court also.

 

M

[stone-broke]

Hi SB. Part 16 deals with Statements of Case and can be applied if their claim is poorly particularised, particularly useful if they've messed around with the CPR requests.

 

Definately check that the court have written confirmation from them for this 'extension' and that you confirm to the court also.

 

M

 

 

Hi to anyone who is online and reading this! Hopefully MandM can get back to me too.....

I have phoned the court and they inform me shoosmiths has not been in touch to extend. I was advised to do an Emarrassed defence, which has to be back to the courts before 4pm tomorrow! HELP!!!!!!

If doing a defence online, this needs to be done the day before, as it takes 24 hours to be processed.......HELP AGAIN!!!!!

I was told though that this could be faxed to them. Either way, I have to get a move on asap.

Any help on this would be GREATLY APPRECIATED as I am a total novice and reading around this consumes so much time. I need a defence that will fit in aptly with the PoC (posted above somewhere!).

Obviously, I will have to start searching now to find what I can, although I am not sure what all these part 16 etc actually mean or even if they apply to my case!

Probably best to find as many embarrassed defences as possible, save and cut and paste parts that are applicable after researching what the legal terms mean for these part 16's etc????????????????????

[bazaar]

OK, try not to panic,

try this link, its a defence where some docs have been provided,

I'm sure LB wont mind you bouncing some ideas off each other as youre both pretty much in the same boat

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/242602-county-court-claim-received-5.html#post2762925

 

Look through the defence, then post it up so everyone can rip it to pieces for you;)

[MandM]

Hi SB. Try not to get stressed. 33 days from date of service gives you till Sat. We'll get this wrapped up this evening. Happy to help. At work today so popping on and off. Try and be on this evening.

 

Whatever I give you I will also send you some links to understand what you are submitting. It is important that you learn this. Part 16's are a doddle as you may have to explain it to a judge one day - but that could be many months away.

 

M

[bazaar]

Also take PT's advice here, keep it simple and to the point

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241827-legal-action-how-start.html

 

OK M M is on to you, so try not to panic too much

Edited February 11, 2010 by bazaar
MM beat me, lol

[MandM]

OK, try not to panic,

try this link, its a defence where some docs have been provided,

I'm sure LB wont mind you bouncing some ideas off each other as youre both pretty much in the same boat

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/242602-county-court-claim-received-5.html#post2762925

 

Look through the defence, then post it up so everyone can rip it to pieces for you;)

 

Thanks bazaar.

 

See SB - no need to panic.

[stone-broke]

Thanks bazaar.

 

See SB - no need to panic.

 

Thank you Bazaar and M.......I have spend the time since posting earlier reading through Costa's posts and even Mands Egg case!! This is how the time flies!

I am trying to get to grips with the defence but still struggling to understand! Going to now read the link Bazaar has mentioned. Trying my best to not go off track though and read stuff that doesn't apply at this minute!! Hard to do as each case is interesting and it is good to see the progression and the help that so many of you have offered. I am hoping that by the end of this I will be as knowledgeable and as confident as you all (Lol!) BTW M, I noted your uncertainty at the start of the Egg case and look how far you have come...ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC!!

Also M, the court said this morning that I must submit the defence no later than 4pm tomorrow. If I do this online it takes 24 hours to be processed, so I have to have this done before 4pm today if doing it online. I do have access to a fax, but after taking time off work today (unpaid), I wanted to complete today if possible....back to work tomorrow.

Best go and do some more reading as time is moving on........thank you both again for getting back so quick

[MandM]

OK, lets start with this and go from here.

 

In the Northampton County Court

Claim number XXXXXXXX

 

Between

 

 

 

 

 

XXXXXXXXX - Claimant

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

XXXXXXXX - Defendant

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Defence

 

1. I XXXXXXXX of XXXXXXXX am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by XXXXXXXX.

 

2. Except where explicitly stated below the Defendant neither admits nor denies any of the assertions or claims made by the Claimant.

 

3. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia:-

 

4. The claimants' particulars of claims disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16. In this regard I wish to draw the courts attention to the following matters;

 

a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to, the method the claimant calculated any outstanding sums due or any other matters necessary to substantiate the claimant's claim.

 

b) A copy of the purported written agreement that the claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

c) A copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged accounts, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

d) A copy of any termination notice served under section 76 and/or section 98 of the CCA, on the alleged account, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

e) A copy of any notice of assignment compliant with the provisions of the Law of Property Act 1925, on the alleged account and proof of original service of said assignment to the defendant, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

f) The defendant requested information referred in the claim under CPR 18 & CPR 31.14 from the claimant by Royal Mail Special Delivery. The request was received by the claimant on the 30th December 2009, compliance with the requests has now expired. The defendant wishes to make the court aware that the claimant is trying to frustrate proceedings and denying the defendant an opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

5. Further and in the alternative it is not admitted that the sums claimed are lawfully owing. The claimant is put to strict proof as to how the sums claimed have been calculated and as to how it is asserted that the sums claimed are contractually owing.

 

6. Consequently, I deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

7. I respectfully request the courts permission to submit an amended defence should the claimant file a fully particularised Particulars of Claim.

 

8. I respectfully request that the court consider striking out the claim under CPR 3.4.2(a) because it is not fully particularized nor offers any legal cause of action.

 

9. I respectfully request that the court consider striking out the claim under CPR 3.4.2© because, in light of the failure to respond to both CPR 31.14 & 18 requests, the Claimant is unable to substantiate their claim with documentary evidence.

 

Statement of Truth

 

 

I XXXXXXXX, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

 

Signed

 

Date

Copy and paste from here and start changing dates etc to suit

M

[MandM]

I would suggest that you have a working copy with your details etc in Word or Works.

 

You can then cut and paste that into your online defence.

 

Any questions - get them up as soon as and someone will answer. I'll be on and off all day so i'll keep looking in.

 

M

[MandM]

Below is a link to the Civil Procedure Rules. Take a look and it should show you what is being asked in the defence>>> CPR - Rules and Directions - Ministry of Justice These are the rules upon which the cases are managed through the courts. Very important that you understand how, why and what you are asking with regards to these.

 

M

[stone-broke]

Below is a link to the Civil Procedure Rules. Take a look and it should show you what is being asked in the defence>>> CPR - Rules and Directions - Ministry of Justice These are the rules upon which the cases are managed through the courts. Very important that you understand how, why and what you are asking with regards to these.

 

M

 

Dear M.....what a star you are! The defence looks great to me, so I will cut and paste as you suggest. I have a couple of others on my desktop, but some of what is on those is also on the one you have posted. I guess I have something to tweak a little and add dates etc. One point though....at the start 'I XXXXXXXX of XXXXXXXX', do I state my address in full after 'of'? I have seen this on the others I have read and wonder if it is the address that goes there (DOH!!). I'm sure it is.....but sometimes can be a bit of a bird brain!!

Well I best get on and make a start as time is of the essence here.......will post back later.

[MandM]

Thank you Bazaar and M.......I have spend the time since posting earlier reading through Costa's posts and even Mands Egg case!! This is how the time flies!

I am trying to get to grips with the defence but still struggling to understand! Going to now read the link Bazaar has mentioned. Trying my best to not go off track though and read stuff that doesn't apply at this minute!! Hard to do as each case is interesting and it is good to see the progression and the help that so many of you have offered. I am hoping that by the end of this I will be as knowledgeable and as confident as you all (Lol!) BTW M, I noted your uncertainty at the start of the Egg case and look how far you have come...ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC!!

Also M, the court said this morning that I must submit the defence no later than 4pm tomorrow. If I do this online it takes 24 hours to be processed, so I have to have this done before 4pm today if doing it online. I do have access to a fax, but after taking time off work today (unpaid), I wanted to complete today if possible....back to work tomorrow.

Best go and do some more reading as time is moving on........thank you both again for getting back so quick

 

Yes, I have a number of issues of my own and one that went to court pdq!

 

Vicious learning curve but have spent a vast amount of time on here and reading. Self preservation really lol. But I, like most on here, was at the same stage you're at now (not that long ago) and it would be a shame to waste all that effort if no one else takes me to court .

 

You'll find lots of help and support here (as I did). There's no guarantee that you'll win - but you will certainly have increased your chances considerably.

 

M

[MandM]

Dear M.....what a star you are! The defence looks great to me, so I will cut and paste as you suggest. I have a couple of others on my desktop, but some of what is on those is also on the one you have posted. I guess I have something to tweak a little and add dates etc. One point though....at the start 'I XXXXXXXX of XXXXXXXX', do I state my address in full after 'of'? I have seen this on the others I have read and wonder if it is the address that goes there (DOH!!). I'm sure it is.....but sometimes can be a bit of a bird brain!!

Well I best get on and make a start as time is of the essence here.......will post back later.

 

 

Yes, your address.

[bazaar]

Great job MandM. SB, that should be about it for now, You'll have kept to the courts timeline, so thats it. Now you can settle a little and scrub up on what youve put in the defence, as MandM says the CPR rules. You'll most likely get a snotty letter from the claimants at some stage, saying you dont have a chance etc, etc. But these can be dealt with later on.

[stone-broke]

Great job MandM. SB, that should be about it for now, You'll have kept to the courts timeline, so thats it. Now you can settle a little and scrub up on what youve put in the defence, as MandM says the CPR rules. You'll most likely get a snotty letter from the claimants at some stage, saying you dont have a chance etc, etc. But these can be dealt with later on.

 

 

Thanks Bazaar.....have just been on the tracking system for the CPR31.14 to see what date it was received! Guess what????? They are unable to confirm status! Called the PO who are looking into it and will get back to me today or tomorrow! So I am going to state on the defence that it was posted Special Delivery on 27th January and not mention the received date, as unsure it has been delivered! I have had no response to the CPR 31.14 from Shoosmiths. The letter I received stated 'Part 18 request' only.

Oh well, will add info that I have to the defence M sent and get online and submit.

[MandM]

You won't need (e) if it's the original creditor taking you to court btw.

 

M

[stone-broke]

You won't need (e) if it's the original creditor taking you to court btw.

 

M

 

 

Hi M,

 

have the Embarrassed defence now and amended as appropriate. Some questions though before I go online to submit........

• I have deleted 4e) as you said as it is the bank who are the claimants. What was f) is now e).
  
• Does this read ok e) The defendant requested information referred in the claim under CPR 18 & CPR 31.14 from the claimant by Royal Mail Special Delivery. The request was sent by the defendant on the 26th January 2010 and 27th January 2010 respectfully. Compliance with the requests has now expired. The defendant wishes to make the court aware that the claimant is trying to frustrate proceedings and denying the defendant an opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.
  
• Should I mention the response I did get from Shoosmiths re extending 14 days once I have received documents they are selectively and allegedly going to send? Also, the 'fishing edpedition' they mention??
  
• If submitting online, how can I sign the defence???
  

Need to get online sharpish to do this and would appreciate a very quick reply!!

[bazaar]

Hi M,

 

have the Embarrassed defence now and amended as appropriate. Some questions though before I go online to submit........

• I have deleted 4e) as you said as it is the bank who are the claimants. What was f) is now e).
  
• Does this read ok e) The defendant requested information referred in the claim under CPR 18 & CPR 31.14 from the claimant by Royal Mail Special Delivery. The request was sent by the defendant on the 26th January 2010 and 27th January 2010 respectfully. Compliance with the requests has now expired. The defendant wishes to make the court aware that the claimant is trying to frustrate proceedings and denying the defendant an opportunity to file a Fully Particularised defence and counter claim.
  
• Should I mention the response I did get from Shoosmiths re extending 14 days once I have received documents they are selectively and allegedly going to send? Also, the 'fishing edpedition' they mention??
  
• dont get into a Pi**ing contest on this, remember this is a court document, just stick to what you know, anything they send, let them mention, we can deal with that later on
  
  
• If submitting online, how can I sign the defence??? you have a password for online filing, so shouldnt be a problem, just make sure they acknowledge receipt, print off the acknowledgement as well if you can
  
  

Need to get online sharpish to do this and would appreciate a very quick reply!!

Just some more to think about

[stone-broke]

Just some more to think about

 

 

Thanks Bazaar.......I'm on to it!!

[MandM]

Just some more to think about

 

Nicely done old chap .

 

You nearly there SB?

[stone-broke]

Nicely done old chap .

 

You nearly there SB?

 

OMG.....what a load of messing!! But yes, I got it in with only 1 minute spare!!

I had to phone the court as it wouldn't accept the format & . After trying to remove those and finally getting through to court, the person I spoke to had to go online into it too. I had to remove all brackets and /. I was really worried as time was passing me by!!

 

Just one point to make now after adding what Bazaar stated in red type re counterclaim. I left 'counterclaim' out as they asked for an amount on the defence form and stated that you HAVE to put an amount in. I haven't a clue what the amount is. Hopefully, I did the right thing??

 

Can I have a breather now? It's been a long day!!

 

Thank you MandM and Bazaar......I really wouldn't have been able to do this without you both

Oh..........what's the next step now???

[freethemice]

This case does remind me a little of when Halifax credit card issued proceedings in Northampton on me without submitting any of the prescribed forms (credit card agreement, t & c, default notice). They are now issued with an Allocation Questionaire and if they want to continue they will have to pay a fee and submit this within 28 days. Failure to do this means they can only proceed with the consent of the judge.

It's 3 month since I submitted my embarrased defence and apart from a letter from the over side asking me to amend my defence (I declined) I have yet to hear anything.

Would try to relax for a while now if I were you. Nothing will be happening in the near future.