Raised a grievance then was made redundant

[napwilson]

Hi, I am new to these forums, but would appreciate any guidance or advice that is available.

 

My situation is this:

 

I was unhappy with the way I was being treated at work, and decided to raise a grievance. I had already approached my line manager with my problems and had failed to resolve these problems (my line manager was one of the people who I was unhappy with). So I arranged a meeting (stage 2 of the greievance, I believe) with the HR department.

 

I am not a member of any trade union, and the company refused to let my representative (an employment law advisor) attend the meeting. Subsequently, my representative at the meeting was the head of the HR department, PA to the MD.

 

Before the meeting I feel that this person manipulated me - convinced me to drop the majority of my grievance and instead to propose an action plan which would be the most amicable, constructive solution for all involved. I agreed at the time that providing I was satisfied with the outcome of the action plan, I would take the grievance no further.

 

Unfortunately, to date, I haven't seen much action taken. I have enquired about the proposed action and am told that a meeting/appraisal has been arranged for me, in early January 2010.

 

I opened my emails today and I am now told that I face redundancy, as due to the economic climate, my position may no longer be available. They have arranged a meeting to discuss this - the same time and date as my appraisal.

 

I feel that I have been hard done to here. I have put up with bullying, harrasment, intimidation, have been witness to racism and discrimination.

 

Please can somebody help me save my career

 

I can provide more in depth information on request.

 

Thanks in advance

[BeauBrummie]

Have you taken any advice from the solicitor ?

 

The grievance that you have raised is a seperate issue to the redundancy and should be treated as such.

 

You should have been given the decision regarding the grievance in writing with a period of time to appeal the decision.

 

The redundancy should have the correct consultation which appears that the employer wishes to do but nevertheless they should not try to combine this with any grievance meeting.

 

Beau

[honeybee13]

Hello there. Do you have a copy of the company's grievance procedure? If so, can you tell us what it says?

[napwilson]

Hello there. Do you have a copy of the company's grievance procedure? If so, can you tell us what it says?

 

 

GRIEVANCE PROCEEDURE

 

It is Company policy to encourage two-way communication between Managers and their staff. If you have any

problems this should help to ensure they are dealt with effectively and speedily.

If there is any matter relating to your work, or the people with whom you work, with which you are unhappy, you

should use the following grievance procedure.

Stage 1

In the first instance discuss the matter informally with your Manager who will try to resolve the problem without

recourse to formal proceedings. If you feel the matter is too personal to raise with your Manager or your

grievance is about your Manager then contact your Personnel Representative.

Stage 2

If the matter cannot be resolved informally then write to your Personnel Representative setting out your

grievance in full (please include copies of any relevant documents). We will invite you to a meeting to discuss

the grievance, and will try to resolve matters to your satisfaction. It may be necessary for us to make enquiries

with other people about your grievance, and possibly to have a second meeting with you.

After the meeting, we will write to you with the outcome of your grievance. The letter will include a reminder of

your right to appeal if you are not satisfied with the outcome.

Right to be accompanied

At any formal meeting, you have the right to be accompanied by a single companion who is either a work

colleague or a trade union representative.

Stage 3

If you wish to appeal, you should write to your Personnel Representative within one week of receiving the stage

2 decision. Your appeal letter should set out the reasons for your appeal.

We will invite you to attend an appeal meeting with a Director or Senior Manager, when your grievance and

your reasons for appealing will be discussed further.

After the meeting, we will write to you within 14 working days with our final decision. There is no further appeal

from this decision.

[napwilson]

Have you taken any advice from the solicitor ?

 

The grievance that you have raised is a seperate issue to the redundancy and should be treated as such.

 

You should have been given the decision regarding the grievance in writing with a period of time to appeal the decision.

 

The redundancy should have the correct consultation which appears that the employer wishes to do but nevertheless they should not try to combine this with any grievance meeting.

 

Beau

 

Yes, the solicitor brought the grievance proceedure to my attention when I told of my unhappiness at work

 

The grievance was disolved at the hearing by my representative, who encouraged me to agree to an action plan that would be adhered to, to resolve my problems amicably. I said at the meeting that "Providing the outcome of the action plan is to my satisfaction, I would be willing to take the grievance no further" - my representative, who then interupted 'off the record', then accused me of trying to blackmail the company.

 

I feel that they now hold the stance that my grievance has gone away and that they do not need to take further action. Some meetings have been arranged but if these meetings do not help me, then the whole process has been a waste of time.

 

I have been invited to a consultation meeting to discuss redundancy. I can't help that feel that the company are now attempting to force me out, because I raised a grievance.

[BeauBrummie]

Have you seen the action plan yet??

 

IMO you should have at least the action plan in writing with achievable targets for all to be monitored and accountable to.

 

Your rep seems to have taken the lead in the grievance meeting---did the meeting achieve what you wanted it to?

 

Again IMO if you are not happy that your grievance has been dealt with fairly then you should appeal asap.

 

You should ask that you have a copy of the outcome of the first meeting in writing for your records so that it is written for all to see.

 

Beau

[napwilson]

Have you seen the action plan yet??

 

IMO you should have at least the action plan in writing with achievable targets for all to be monitored and accountable to.

 

Your rep seems to have taken the lead in the grievance meeting---did the meeting achieve what you wanted it to?

 

Again IMO if you are not happy that your grievance has been dealt with fairly then you should appeal asap.

 

You should ask that you have a copy of the outcome of the first meeting in writing for your records so that it is written for all to see.

 

Beau

 

Hi,

 

Yes, I received the minutes of the meeting. They were read to me and I signed them - the regional manager who was carrying out the grievance wanted to hurry the process up because he had a tender to settle.

 

The whole thing is a complete farce if you ask me. The action plan had 7 points - I don't really think there is much action to be taken, as 4 of the points are just to arrange meetings to discuss certain issues. I point that was investigated was the salary increase I was promised at the interview - "If your 6 month probationary period is successful, you will get a pay rise to bring you in line with the national average for a quantity surveyor", was what I was told at the interview. Now they say that it was a pay review, not a rise, and that the pay review has taken place but was unsuccessful. I don't believe the pay review took place at the end of my probationary period, because they didn't communicate the outcome of the pay review at the time.

 

I was supposed to have an appraisal last year to determine my development, but my line manager refused to let me have the necessary forms. I feel that they therefore cannot fairly and reasonably judge my progress/development. Item 1 of the action plan was to provide this appraisal, but I had to send several emails and cause somewhat of a stir to get them to respond.

 

I feel I now have three options - 1) get made redundant and receive nothing (haven't been there ovewr 3 years) 2) re-visit the grievance, if I am unsatissfied with the action taken, or 3) hand in my notice and claim constructive dismissal. If I decide to choose the latter, the knives will come out, and I will consider the whistleblower proceedure, to shop them for the fraud that I have witnessed on so many occassions.

 

Problem is now - they haven't told me i'm redundant just yet, but warned me that "they may have to make 1 redundancy, which could result in my dismissal".

 

I would like some advice on the next steps to take. Again, if you wish to hear my grievance in full and the rest of the things that have happened since, I will provide this information.

[honeybee13]

Hi there, sorry to hear about your problems. I'm sure people will be along to help.

 

In the meantime, I'm a little confused when you say you might be redundant and then talk about dimissal, which is a separate issue. Legally, it's the job that's made redundant, not the person. Are they saying they don't need all the people they have? I know things are tough in the property and surveying world.

[napwilson]

Hi there, sorry to hear about your problems. I'm sure people will be along to help.

 

In the meantime, I'm a little confused when you say you might be redundant and then talk about dimissal, which is a separate issue. Legally, it's the job that's made redundant, not the person. Are they saying they don't need all the people they have? I know things are tough in the property and surveying world.

 

 

Hi, and thank you for your post.

 

I'll quote directly from the letter if I may.

 

"Following a comprehensive strategic review due to budget constraints, we now have to reconsider our staffing levels because of the lack of work and potential work within (the region of my head office). ... The last framework contract (P1X) will be completed in the next few weeks and any outstanding duties will be carried out by (my line manager). As you were aware you were employed solely for quantity surveying duties on the framework contracts.

 

"I am writing to confirm that it is with considerable regret that we must warn you that we may have to make 1 redundancy, which may result in your dismissal.

 

"I have to inform you that unfortunately your position as Assistant Quantity Surveyor is potentially at risk of redundancy. The reason for this is that as a result of reduction in work your position may no longer be required.

 

"Redundancies...will be a last resort...we would like to meaningfully consult with you. I would like totalk you through the terms of redundancy, explain the selection process and criteria that were used and talk about suitable alterbative employment within the Company.

 

"No decision to make redundancies has been made at this time and the consultation process will remain open until 15/01/2010. You can also contact me at any time during the consultation period if you have anything that you want to discuss.

 

"If you would like to apply for voluntary redundancy please put your application in writing by Monday 11 January 2010 addressed to (HR executive). There is no guarantee that your application can be accepted.

 

"A consultation meeting will take place on 11/01/2010 at (my head office)... Notes will be taken

 

"If you have any suggestions that may enable us to avoid this situation then please do not hesitate to let me know.

 

"You are entitled to be accompanied to the meeting by a work colleague or Trade Union representative."

 

 

 

I think there are some fundamental issues with what they have said in the letter.

1)It has been documented that my region has out-performed all other regions, and that we have a very strong order book for the new year.

2) The last framework contract is not the one mentioned in the letter - there is another 12-18 month contract that is about to start, which will be the final one.

3) I was not aware that I was employed solely for work on these framework contracts and my job description even states that I must have a knowledge of other forms of contract, intimating that I will be involved in different types of work

4) "They have to make 1 redundancy, which may result in my dismissal" - There is a man whos job title is 'Framework Contracts Manager". He is therefore employed solely for the framework jobs. Why is he not getting made redundant? We have a site secretary, who, while she tries her best, does not have the skills that myself and the above mentioned contract manager have - surely she would be in the 'firing line' then? There is a guy on site who does (well, nobody's sure what he does!) and my line manager has said several times that he doesn't understand the requirement for this guy. We have out-performed all other regions, and there are rumors that one of our Northern offices may close, due to complete lack of work - surely these people will be made redundant before me? I'm not saying that I wish this on anybody else, but I don't see the logic behind their thinking and therefore can only assume that because I complained over the way I was treated, etc., I now am being forced out of the company.

5)I contacted the person who wrote the letter, expressing my concerns. She said the letter had been dictated to her by my regional manger and that she wasn't able to provide any answers. I then contacted my regional manager who also said he couldn't provide any answers until the meeting next Monday. I contacted my line manager, who said he was 'standing well back from it and couldn't pass comment'.. LOL - so much for being able to contact them at any time before the 15th to discuss! They have invited my suggestions but even though the letter states "please don't hesitate to let me know!, they won't listen to my suggestions until the meeting.

 

This whole thing is a [problem]. What can I do? If I rock the boat too much, I doubt they'll give me a reference. I was told by my contracts manager a long time ago that "When a door closes in construction, another one will open. The key is not to get your fingers trapped in the doors!". I have to disagree with that - if I am being unfairly treated, discriminated against, or whatever, am I supposed to then just go on without saying anything?

 

Also I have been told that the people who have held my postion in the past have all been subject to unfair treatment of one kind or another. I take the view that if I don't do something, the same will happen to others in the future.

 

Where do I go from here? What is the next step?

 

Thanks in advance for any further comments

 

Napwilson

 

 

P.S. Sorry for the War and Peace style length of this post!

[ms_smith]

Sounds like a case for victimization...

[napwilson]

The plot thickens....

 

I have been told during the latest consultation meeting that the company will consider relocating me to another region and taking me on in a different role (construction manager instead of QS). Problem is, they have too many construction managers at the moment - we have 5 on one particular site, another has been told to 'use up all of his holiday because there is no work at the moment' and according to what was said at this meeting, further redundancies may be iminent.

 

I have learnt a valuable lesson from this. If you raise a grievance, take it all the way! There is no backing down once you have rocked the boat. While the company has policies to deal with this sort of thing, they always seem to bend the rules in their favour.

 

I would like to take this forward, but can't see a way to take it any further. A lot of the bullying I was a victim of was done verbally, and the person giving it out vehemently refuses to admit it - it is my word against his.

 

My case now is that I feel I have been unfairly selected for redundancy, due to the issues I raised. But as they are saying, if there is a lack of work for my position, they have a strong case to make me redundant. I don't feel there is any way to fight this, based on my experience.

 

It is just a shame that this kind of thing goes on and in my opinion, this kind of thing gives a bad reputation to the industry.

 

Also, my appraisal actually took place (9 months late, after I had complained) and I am disgusted with what my line manager had written about me. I see his comments as completely unfair, false, misleading and a spiteful attempt to tarnish my reputation. I couldn't agree to what he had written and refused to sign the form. I recorded the meeting on my voice recorder (which completely ****ed the line manager off, yay me!)

 

If anyone has any ideas, I will consider them, however.

[honeybee13]

I agree with Ms Smith about victimisation, nap.

 

Hopefully, other caggers will have some ideas on what you could do.

[Leakie]

subbing with interest

 

Leakie

[ms_smith]

 

Also, my appraisal actually took place (9 months late, after I had complained) and I am disgusted with what my line manager had written about me. I see his comments as completely unfair, false, misleading and a spiteful attempt to tarnish my reputation. I couldn't agree to what he had written and refused to sign the form. I recorded the meeting on my voice recorder (which completely ****ed the line manager off, yay me!)

 

 

So it's mental harassment as well. Is it the same manager you complained about previously? If so, the act of bullying is simply continuing.

[napwilson]

@ ms smith

 

Thank you for confirming that. It is obvious that the grievance I rasied has not changed the situation, in fact it's probably made it worse.

 

During my appraisal, my line manager (the one who I complained about) said "...you have other issues as well, from what i've been hearing." Obviously then he has heard of the grievance I raised and it has not been kept strictly private and confidential.

 

The problem I now face is that because a lot of the 'bullying' was done verbally, how can I prove it? It's just my word against his. During the appraisal he refused to admit that he had previously denied the opportunity to me and said that I have 'Not a chance' of proving it - I interpreted this as further bullying/harassment.

 

Talking about the consultation meeting now, I had the second consultation meeting on Wednesday - it was carried out over the phone, to which I expressed my disappointment. The Regional manager who is dealing with this has mow changed his tone slightly - he has confirmed that other letters have been sent out and that other positions are at risk also.

[honeybee13]

Hello again. A friend of ours has a saying 'If it's not written down, it didn't happen.' With the meeting the other day, did you take notes and can you remember what was said?

 

I don't think there's anything to stop you sending a written version to the company. Is there guys?

 

Have you looked at bullyonline.org? It may or may not help just at this moment, but certainly worth a read through. You'll understand how bullies work, that you're by no means alone, and who knows, you may pick up some tips.

[napwilson]

@Honey bee

 

Yes I recorded the appraisal and consultation meetings on my voice recorder - I made sure I informed everyone present that I was recording and I have given them a copy of the recording. Plus I have minutes too.

[honeybee13]

That's brilliant. Have you made a transcript of your recording, or is that the minutes you mentioned? Because you could compare a written transcript with what they're saying and highlight any differences.

[Uncertain]

@Honey bee

 

Yes I recorded the appraisal and consultation meetings on my voice recorder - I made sure I informed everyone present that I was recording and I have given them a copy of the recording. Plus I have minutes too.

 

Presumably if you have done this the minutes are OK? I wonder if they would have been if they didn't know the meeting was being recorded?

 

Informing them may or may not have been a good move.....

 

It is not illegal to tape record a conversation you are party to even if this is done without the other parties knowledge. However, most people get very angry when they find out!

 

Being able to prove that the meeting had been minuted incorrectly (in their favour) may have been helpful to your case.

[napwilson]

@Uncertain - I see what you mean, but I was under the impression that recorded evidence can be thrown out of court if the recorded parties have not been told they are being recorded?

 

The case here is simple - I raised a grievance and now they are seeking to oust me from the company. I am at present in touch with my employment law advisors and their solicitors.

 

What is really annoying about all of this is the fact that a lot of the 'bullying' was done verbally, and with just my word against theirs, how can I prove anything?

 

The company have pointed out that due to losing a major contract, my position is at risk of redundancy, which is acceptable, but they have made some errors :-

1) They say that I was only employed to work on HA framework jobs - this is not stipulated in my contract and as far as I am aware, I was there for QS duties on other contracts also.

2) They have said that the current job I am working on is the last job of this contract - there is actually one more, that to date, I have always believed I would be involved in. The minutes of the inaugral meeting in relation to the next job, includes my name and clearly states that I will be in charge of QS'ing duties for the company

3) They say that my duties will be carried out by the site managers when I have left - surely this is not ethical?

4) the grievance I raised, which was turned into an action plan - they say this will be dealt with AFTER the consultation period

5) They have said because the action plan was not a formal proceedure that I therefore have no means of a formal appeal - I did say at the grievance hearing (and it was minuted) that I would only drop the grievance if the outcome of the actiopn plan met my satisfaction, which it hasn't

 

I get the feeling that this could turn very ugly if taken further and I have to question whether it is all really worth pursuing - I don't want prospective new employers to hear of it, because that may hinder my chances of finding a new job... What to do??

[honeybee13]

Hello again. Other threads on this forum have discussed recorded meetings and it doesn't seem to be a problem, whether your employer knew or not. Certainly, you can use a transcript of a conversation if it's in you favour.

 

I think what Uncertain and I are asking is, does your recording agree with the minutes of the meeting that they have sent you. If not, please say, it would work in your favour.

[napwilson]

in that case, I would have to say that the minutes have missed out certain things that are favourable to me - they are not a completely accurate account. There were no minutes issued at the appraisal - lucky I recorded it because what my line manager was saying about me was a complete load of nonsense, designed to make me look bad. He tried bullying me at the appraisal too - trying to manipulate me to sign the form, which I refused to sign.

 

Anyway, crunch time tomorrow - final consultation meeting. I'll let you know how it goes.

[honeybee13]

I don't know what the others think, but I would have thought it was important to point out how your line manager treated you in the meeting and the 'omissions' from the minutes.

[ms_smith]

The company have pointed out that due to losing a major contract, my position is at risk of redundancy

 

Hold on, is it only you you and you or others have received such info as well? If only you, it stinks from a 50 miles distance that they are acting mischievously. Coz in a situation of a possible redundancy prospect in the company, everyone who might be decently involved shoud receive such information and, as you already quoted, opportunity to resign (voluntarily), otherwise face possible redundancy after the consultation period. If they are sending such info to you only: c'mon!

 

1) They say that I was only employed to work on HA framework jobs - this is not stipulated in my contract and as far as I am aware, I was there for QS duties on other contracts also.

 

Did you actually perform any work on HA framework? Is it part of your QS job? How does it work? We may need to know if you want us to give an opinion... If no however, they are breaking terms of your contract. You qualify to resign and claim constructive dismissal, I reckon.

 

2) They have said that the current job I am working on is the last job of this contract - there is actually one more, that to date, I have always believed I would be involved in. The minutes of the inaugral meeting in relation to the next job, includes my name and clearly states that I will be in charge of QS'ing duties for the company

 

If they are implementing those possibilities of redundancies wrongly, they are breaking terms of your contract again and you qualify to resign and claim constructive dismissal. And victimization of course.

 

3) They say that my duties will be carried out by the site managers when I have left - surely this is not ethical?

 

Jeez, sounds like they have already decided... ?

 

4) the grievance I raised, which was turned into an action plan - they say this will be dealt with AFTER the consultation period

 

WRONG. As the representatives of your employer, they have to act without any unreasonable delay so as to appropriately respond to any complaints received from you or any other member of staff (I am sure there is even a sentence in your company policy that says sth about this unreasonable delay). And this is your right to feel comfortable at work. The appraisal that took place after you raised the grievance can be classified as a direct effect of their negligence and lack of appropriate response to your grievance as the manager you complained about continued with her/his misconduct.

 

5) They have said because the action plan was not a formal proceedure that I therefore have no means of a formal appeal - I did say at the grievance hearing (and it was minuted) that I would only drop the grievance if the outcome of the actiopn plan met my satisfaction, which it hasn't

 

I can't believe it! They are so cheeky. And it sounds like a piece of brainwashing...

You have raised a grievance and that is the most important thing. They HAVE TO deal with it quickly because this is their job as well. Apparently, they love to drag your case to your deep discomfort...

How they proceed with this redundancy procedures says a lot and may put you in a winning position if you manage to prove everything I wrote above.

 

Do you have in writing all what you wrote in here and what I quoted in italics above? Anything written by them actually may have a potential worth to be of significant evidence.

 

 

I get the feeling that this could turn very ugly if taken further and I have to question whether it is all really worth pursuing - I don't want prospective new employers to hear of it, because that may hinder my chances of finding a new job... What to do??

 

Well, you can resign and search for a new job (giving the reson for leaving anything else than the mention of this situation). It may take you a few months (if not years) to recover emotionally though...

 

Or, you can resign and claim constructive dismissal - due to the pressure and a number of their breaches of your contract of employment. It may take a few months before the case reaches the ET hearing. The battle may be long and exausting, so you have to be prepared for that as well.

 

Or, you can wait until they make you redundant, shift you somewhere else and continue to be stressed out at work.

 

Or, you can wait until they make you redundant without any other offer of employment - just a plain kick out. You can still claim unfair dismissal and all of course...

Edited January 22, 2010 by ms_smith

[ms_smith]

Hey again,

 

Not sure if you already been there, so I am posting in case you didn't - it's a great stuff...

 

Redundancy selections and notice periods : Directgov - Employment

 

Regards!