Writs of Execution from the high court

[headbanging]

Hi,

 

I woke up this morning to find a letter delivered by hand, pushed through the letter box. On the outside of the letter is written:

 

'if no contact made we will return 7/1/10 7am with the intention of removing goods, please arrange for a key holder to be present. Failure to so may incur further charges. 07xxxxxxxxx. Locksmiths will be in attendence'

 

The letter is from a firm called Andrew Wilson & co and relates to a CCJ I had issued against me. Since the CCJ I have heard nothing, until this now.

 

The fees are listed in the letter as:

Judgment debt £693.24

Judgment Cost £157

Costts of execution 101.75

Officers fees 416.70

 

Total 1368.69

 

I don't understand all the paperwork, as it includes a sheet for listing property, and nothing is listed on there. The paperwork says that this is a high court writ, and the firm are executing that writ.

 

Can anyone give me any advice on this? Do I contact the court, the balliff or the people I owe the money to?

 

The debt is for goods, that I still have. I have offered to return them, but heard nothing back from the company.

 

Thanks

[Nintendo Pü]

'if no contact made we will return 7/1/10 7am with the intention of removing goods, please arrange for a key holder to be present. Failure to so may incur further charges. 07xxxxxxxxx. Locksmiths will be in attendence'

 

If someone has left a note threatening to break in using a locksmith then you should contact police. No reputable locksmith would ever assist anyone to break into homes in this way.

 

Bailiffs cannot lawfully use or threaten you with locksmiths. To attend a property with the tools that interfere with the normal operation of locks commits an offence of Going Equipped to Steal under Section 25 of the Theft Act 1968. Bailiffs can only enter a property through an unlocked door or window.

 

In any event, bailiffs cannot remove goods in the debtors absence. On 17 March 1998 Lord Justice Morritt in the High Court ruled that bailiffs having a Walking Possessions Agreement cannot remove anything whilst the debtor is absent unless it is pre-arranged by appointment and with an Order signed by a Judge. The Judge also said in his conclusion, "However it should be noted that in cases such as these there may be a sanction pursuant to Section l of the Criminal Damage Act l97l. In other cases the provisions of Section 6 of the Criminal Law Act may apply also". Khazanchi & Anor v Faircharm Investments Ltd & Ors [1998] EWCA Civ 471.

 

You should make copies of the bailiffs locksmith document and contact police and quote the above. Police might say crimes like these are a "civil matter" Complain to the IPCC if this happens, a person concealing a crime under the false pretence it is a civil matter is called Perverting the Course of Justice.

 

 

The letter is from a firm called Andrew Wilson & co and relates to a CCJ I had issued against me. Since the CCJ I have heard nothing, until this now.

 

The fees are listed in the letter as:

Judgment debt £693.24

Judgment Cost £157

Costts of execution 101.75

Officers fees 416.70

 

Total 1368.69

 

The law prescribing fees chargeable by a High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO) for collecting unpaid debts is Schedule 3 of Regulation 13 of The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004. It says:

 

Where the sum due is £100 or less - 5%

Above £100 - 2.5%

 

So the correct fee for collecting £693.24 is actualy £17.33, the officer is seriously trying to rip you off for a lot of money and it trying to charge for work in advance of being done or has no intention of ever doing. If an HCEO defrauds you with his fees in this way, he commits an arrestable offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. It is called fraud by false representation.

 

I don't understand all the paperwork,

 

You wont, its designed to mislead you.

 

as it includes a sheet for listing property, and nothing is listed on there. The paperwork says that this is a high court writ, and the firm are executing that writ.

 

Can anyone give me any advice on this? Do I contact the court, the balliff or the people I owe the money to?

 

The creditor you owe the money to.

 

The debt is for goods, that I still have. I have offered to return them, but heard nothing back from the company.

 

Thanks

 

Check the terms of the agreement, hand the goods back if you can.

 

When a bailiff defrauds you with his fees he commits an arrestable offence. Your document is sufficient evidence and the police should at minimum, arrest the bailiff and question him under caution at a police station and the bailiffs DNA goes on the national database!

 

The Chief Constable

Name of Police Authority

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Reporting a crime committed under the Fraud Act 2006

 

I enclose a document given to me by a man saying he is a High Court Enforcement Officer (the suspect). He charged fees [£AMOUNT]. The law prescribing HCEO fees is Schedule 3 of Regulation 13 of The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004 and only provides fees of [£AMOUNT]. The law does not provide for the suspect to charge me any fees where no goods have been transported or sold by them. The suspect did not move any goods in a van and I did not sign any documents for him. I have been defrauded by the suspect who is cheating with his fees and I have asked for a refund without success.

 

I appreciate the police have a propensity to dismiss bailiff crime to be a civil matter, but the official legal position is the suspect commits an arrestable offence under the 2006 Fraud Act. Lord Lucas at the House of Lords on 20 April 2007 when he asked HM Government whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter. The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal) replied with, inter-alia (quote) A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 (unquote).

 

Section 1 means by which this offence can be committed is set out in Section 2, on fraud by false representation. This section applies where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss. It is also possible that, where a bailiff repeatedly charges for work that has not been done, this conduct will amount to fraudulent trading either under Section 9 of the 2006 Act or under the provisions on fraudulent trading in company legislation.

 

The law can provide reasonable costs in respect of bailiffs transporting goods in a van (attending to remove fee) however no goods have been levied and no document has been signed by me. District Judge Advent on the 9th & 24th September 2008 presiding over Case 8CL51015 Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). The court ruled that "because the bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable".

 

The document also appears to threaten to break into my home using a locksmith. I understand that attending a property with the tools that interfere with the normal operation of locks commits an offence of Going Equipped to Steal under Section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 as enforcement officers can only enter a property through an unlocked door or window and in any event, the High Court Khazanchi & Anor v Faircharm Investments Ltd & Ors [1998] EWCA Civ 471 has ruled that goods cannot be taken in the debtors absence.

 

On 17 March 1998 Lord Justice Morritt in the High Court ruled that bailiffs having a Walking Possessions Agreement cannot remove anything whilst the debtor is absent unless it is pre-arranged by appointment and with an Order signed by a Judge. The Judge also said in his conclusion, "However it should be noted that in cases such as these there may be a sanction pursuant to Section 1 of the Criminal Damage Act l971. In other cases the provisions of Section 6 of the Criminal Law Act may apply also".

 

Any offence committed under the 2006 Fraud Act is an arrestable offence under Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Please assign a crime reference number and I request the crime is investigated professionally and objectively and I am happy to help you in your enquiries and stand as a prosecution witness at trial. I respectfully ask that police do not look for reasons for not investigating a crime or try to conceal it in some way to avoid passing the case to the Crown Prosecution Service.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

YOUR NAME

Enc: copy of HCEO/Locksmith document giving contact details

 

If the police fob you off with excuses or tries a delay tactic, write down the name and rank of the police officer and contact the IPCC and your MP with a written complaint of 'Perverting the Course of Justice'. It is an offence under Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 to conceal a crime under false pretences. You will then find the police will start cooperating soon enough!

Edited January 5, 2010 by Nintendo Pü
udated the police letter

[headbanging]

Many thanks for that Nintendo, thats a great help.

 

I have just contacted the creditor, by phone, and need to wait for the woman who deals with it to call me back. They've got an hour before I call again.

 

With regards to reporting the balliff, whats the best way to go about this? If I go to the local Police Station, they give you a number to ring, to report the crime. Can I do it that way? Also the only address I have for the Balliff is the business address for Andrew Wilson & Co, would this address be OK?

 

Thanks again, you have been a great help.

[Nintendo Pü]

Many thanks for that Nintendo, thats a great help.

 

I have just contacted the creditor, by phone, and need to wait for the woman who deals with it to call me back. They've got an hour before I call again.

 

Get a USB telephone recorder, on eBay £20, and connect it to your laptop and your phone before you get into protracted telephone calls. List your questions, and ask them one by one and write down the answer.

 

If the creditor palms you off with contact the bailiff, then politely tell then there is no legislation or contract requiring you to trade with a bailiff. Ask them to contact you when the bailiff has returned the case back to you, and ready to accept £5 a week.

 

Remind them that section 2 of the Unsolicited Goods & Services Act 1971 can enable you to disregard any fees charged by an HCEO, the only fee is £45 because the debt is a county court judgement and no transfer up was made without consent, and any contract is only between the creditor and the bailiff.

 

With regards to reporting the balliff, whats the best way to go about this? If I go to the local Police Station,

 

 

Write to them, do not phone, do not attend unless invited, and if so, take someobdy with you. Template letter above, amend it as needed.

 

they give you a number to ring, to report the crime. Can I do it that way? Also the only address I have for the Balliff is the business address for Andrew Wilson & Co, would this address be OK?

 

Biz address for bailiff is fine, the detective will attend and ask for the name & address for the bailiff in charge and invite him to attend a police station to be interviewed to 'eliminate him from their enquiries'.

[High Court Enforcer]

Nintendo, there is no contract needed between the HCEO and the defendant. Please stop misinforming people.

[Nintendo Pü]

Its interesting how you interpret things.

 

I said: and any contract is only between the creditor and the bailiff.

This literally means, any fee arrangement between the HCEO and the creditor is not legally binding on the debtor. The law only provides HCEO fees of 2.5% of the debt and reasonable costs for transporting the debtors goods to auction.

[ploddertom]

 

The debt is for goods, that I still have. I have offered to return them, but heard nothing back from the company.

 

Thanks

 

I assume the CCJ against you is for the goods you still have? Why therefore did they not form part of your defence and why hasn't the Claimant taken them back?

 

Although you acknowledge you have a CCJ against you - did you ever get chance to defend yourself? is it against you as a person or as a business and if a business is it a Limited Company?

 

PT

[headbanging]

I've just spoken the person I need to at the creditors, and they have said there is nothing they can do, and that I must make contact with their solicitors. I rang their solicitors and the person handling the case was away from their desk (as always!) so I left a voice mail.

 

Just have to wait and see if the solicitor contacts me now.

[headbanging]

I assume the CCJ against you is for the goods you still have? Why therefore did they not form part of your defence and why hasn't the Claimant taken them back?

 

Although you acknowledge you have a CCJ against you - did you ever get chance to defend yourself? is it against you as a person or as a business and if a business is it a Limited Company?

 

PT

 

 

Its against me as a person, although the account was in a business name, and the businesses legal status is Sole Trader, so either way it all comes back to me.

[Nintendo Pü]

I've just spoken the person I need to at the creditors, and they have said there is nothing they can do, and that I must make contact with their solicitors. I rang their solicitors and the person handling the case was away from their desk (as always!) so I left a voice mail.

 

Just have to wait and see if the solicitor contacts me now.

 

You will be passed from pillar to post if you keep telephoning them.

 

Write to the creditor, make an offer of £5 a week or return the goods, set a deadline for them to reply.

 

And follow this advice is a bailiff turns up at your door.

 

DEALING WITH BAILIFFS ON YOUR DOORSTEP

 

 

1. ALWAYS! Keep your door LOCKED SHUT at all times. NEVER open the door to a bailiff - speak to him through a window or the letterbox

2. ALWAYS! Hide your car - in the garage or park it well away

3. ALWAYS! Take photographs of the bailiff and his vehicle, even better use a camcorder and video-record EVERYTHING

4. ALWAYS! Speak as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE and let the bailiff do the talking

5. ALWAYS! Ask for his bailiff's certificate number

6. ALWAYS! Ask which court issued his certificate

7. ALWAYS! Ask for a full breakdown of his fees IN WRITING

8. ALWAYS! Ask who the creditor is (if you don't know)

9. ALWAYS! Pay using a credit card, avoid cash and debit cards if possible

10. ALWAYS! If you have grounds, get an appeal lodged immediately (parking tickets) - it stops enforcement

 

1. NEVER! Sign any documents handed to you by a bailiff

2. NEVER! Phone a bailiff (unless asking him which Court issued his certificate)

3. NEVER! Admit any debt

4. NEVER! Say or "confirm" your name address or date of birth

 

If you feel intimidated or a bailiff threatened to break in then call police on 999. Remember that door remains LOCKED SHUT until the bailiff is a safe distance from your property. You DO NOT have to open the door to police. Get everything on video, it can be used in court: Example: YouTube - Rossendales Bailiffs

[ploddertom]

Is it possible you can explain how the CCJ arose, as have previously said if you still have the goods then why the CCJ? Surely this must have formed part of any defence/counterclaim? Were you served with the paperwork at the beginning and if so did you acknowledge service? If you didn't receive anything and the first you found out about the CCJ is when it dropped through your door you may have a reason to claim Set Aside.

 

Need to know this to advise further.

 

PT

[headbanging]

Is it possible you can explain how the CCJ arose, as have previously said if you still have the goods then why the CCJ? Surely this must have formed part of any defence/counterclaim? Were you served with the paperwork at the beginning and if so did you acknowledge service? If you didn't receive anything and the first you found out about the CCJ is when it dropped through your door you may have a reason to claim Set Aside.

 

Need to know this to advise further.

 

PT

 

 

I got my defence in to late, and they wouldn't accept it. The following day (I think), the judgement arrived. I haven't got the paperwork here with me now. As this arrived mid December, I decided to sort it in the new year, as business is obviously going mad at Christmas. Just when we start to calm down, and I know thats an important issue to sort out, I get the Balliffs letter.

[ploddertom]

I got my defence in to late, and they wouldn't accept it. The following day (I think), the judgement arrived. I haven't got the paperwork here with me now. As this arrived mid December, I decided to sort it in the new year, as business is obviously going mad at Christmas. Just when we start to calm down, and I know thats an important issue to sort out, I get the Balliffs letter.

 

I've been having a look to see if you can still try for Set Aside but because you were late filing a defence then I'm not quite sure if you can. Will continue trawling unless someone else knows?

 

PT

[Nintendo Pü]

Have you tried posting in the legal section? or at a dedicated legal forum such as SWARB?

[High Court Enforcer]

Its interesting how you interpret things.

 

I said: and any contract is only between the creditor and the bailiff.

 

This literally means, any fee arrangement between the HCEO and the creditor is not legally binding on the debtor. The law only provides HCEO fees of 2.5% of the debt and reasonable costs for transporting the debtors goods to auction.

 

Nintendo Pu, under the order of a Writ of Fi Fa, the HCEO is comanded to seize in execution the goods, chattels and other property of the defendant and raise the judgment sums plus the HCEO's fees and charges.

 

Just like Happy C, you are misinforming the forum based on your limited legal knowledge.

[Nintendo Pü]

Nintendo Pu, under the order of a Writ of Fi Fa, the HCEO is comanded to seize in execution the goods, chattels and other property of the defendant and raise the judgment sums plus the HCEO's fees and charges.

 

Nobody is saying otherwise.

[ohitsonlyme]

removed by onlyme to get Op back on track

Edited January 5, 2010 by ohitsonlyme
moved to another thread to keep OP on track

[Nintendo Pü]

Its all to do with the Section C 'miscellaenous' reasonable costs clause in the HCEO regulations. HCEO's use this to add a list of fees with a sum of money attached to them, and its up to the debtor to dispute them.

[ohitsonlyme]

Its all to do with the Section C 'miscellaenous' reasonable costs clause in the HCEO regulations. HCEO's use this to add a list of fees with a sum of money attached to them, and its up to the debtor to dispute them.

 

Np I am trying to find the information from HCE not challenge it in other ways

 

The fees I am asking about are not in relation to miscellaneous fees but specific items on a statement of costs issued on a first visit ie levy valuation and first visit cost

 

miscellaneous fees are normally debtor services fees, admin fees etc and I do not want to know about these at this time

 

Time will show that I have a point to discuss if HCE can be kind enough to provide the information as seen from the other side of the fence

onlyme

[Mr Worried]

Nintendo, there is no contract needed between the HCEO and the defendant. Please stop misinforming people.

 

Hey HCE

 

Do you class this complaint as SPURIOUS?????

 

Mr W

[ncf355]

Its all to do with the Section C 'miscellaenous' reasonable costs clause in the HCEO regulations. HCEO's use this to add a list of fees with a sum of money attached to them, and its up to the debtor to dispute them.

 

Problem being, in the HCEO regs it doesnt actually state the fees must be reasonable, does it?

 

(and you know which side of the fence I sit on N Pu!)

 

But it DOES say the other costs and fees are chargeable only on application to a District/Costs Judge?

[ploddertom]

I think we are getting off track here as none of this helps the OP.

 

PT

[ncf355]

Fair comment, sorry OP I'll keep that for the HCEO fees thread

 

[Nintendo Pü]

Problem being, in the HCEO regs it doesnt actually state the fees must be reasonable, does it?

 

(and you know which side of the fence I sit on N Pu!)

 

But it DOES say the other costs and fees are chargeable only on application to a District/Costs Judge?

 

If an application to a Judge to is needed, but the HCEO doesnt have a document allowing them, then Section C miscellaenous costs would be NIL. Well spotted ncf355!

 

But under Transport and sale of goods et-al, the legislation says : the sums actually and reasonably paid. If we go by DJ Avents interpretation, if the bailiff cannot or will not show how his costs are incurred then he has not shown it is reasonable costs. Therefore its NIL.

[headbanging]

I have just spoken to the solicitors, and they are refusing to budge at all, and say to phone the Balliffs.

 

So I guess that the only thing left that I can do.