PLEASE HELP! URGENT Allocation hearing TOMORROW!

[Parent84]

I have an alloction hearing tomorrow for a case in which I am a defendant. I have no idea how to prepare for the hearing or what im meant to do there.. on the notice it just says that the hearing is expected to last 30 min with the claimant bing expected to file andserve a statement o issues (i havent recieved a copy of thes) and the judge has ordered that both parties should be prepared to explain their stance as to mediation.

 

Please please give me some advice on what i need to do - i am very nervous about this.

[buzby]

You've left it kind of late for a substantive reply as we don't know the background.

 

From what you've said, I'd suggest that as you have not recieved any documentation to help you decide your approach, you simply turn up at court and be prepared to answer any questions asked of you clearly and without waffle.

 

If there is anything you do not understand, ASK for it to be explained to you, and state you feel disadvantaged as you are unclear to the precise nature of the pursuers claim against you.

[GuidoT]

An allocation hearing is nothing to be concerned about really.

 

It is just about managing the litigation, this is not the trial.

 

Clearly we know nothing about your case so it is a bit tricky to provide specific advice.

 

Post up your allocation questionnaire if you can.

[Parent84]

Hi, my case is regarding unapid college fees. I sent my 17 year old son to a private college last year where I WAS PAYING 15K per year. My son initially started with three A levels - he started having problem with one of the subject teachers and they removed him from the subject in the second term so they then were only teaching him two AS subjects per term - they did put him in for a third AS subject but he was very behind and no attention was given to him to help him catch up. I did speak to the school to allow him to continue with his initial subject or otherwise only teach him two AS levels with him possibly doing a short course in the summer for his third subject thy didn’t allow this but registered him for a third subject but then removed him from this within the third term. The education he received was horrendous with me spending every waking hour I could muster after work to teach him to get him through his first set of exams.

 

I didn’t pay the final terms fees as I was arguing I was only liable to pay for two subjects (its £1665 per subject per term) and as it turned out my cheque for the second term wasn’t received by the college either (which they never mentioned until sending me a court summons for a debt of £10,000).

 

I don’t know what to do! I filed a defence and now am set for an allocation hearing on the 5th of January. The college are lying and saying I didn’t pay for his college trip fee when I did (which they accepted orally over the phone that they were wrong to make a claim for this) they're claiming for three subjects per term when my son was only taught and entered in exams for two AS subjects!

 

What can I do? I don’t want to pay any of the fees now as they refused to release his results and give a reference to another college which I wanted to put him in this yr leading to my son not being in any college for this year. He’s in essence lost out on two years education as they have refused to release his first yr results and he has lost out on an academic year. Please help me - I can’t afford to go to the solicitors either. I just wanted a bright future for my son and now he is so disillusioned by the whole education process that he no longer wants to pursue his education.

 

Please any advice would be most appreciated.

[legalpickle]

Hi, my case is regarding unapid college fees. I sent my 17 year old son to a private college last year where I WAS PAYING 15K per year. My son initially started with three A levels - he started having problem with one of the subject teachers and they removed him from the subject in the second term so they then were only teaching him two AS subjects per term - they did put him in for a third AS subject but he was very behind and no attention was given to him to help him catch up. I did speak to the school to allow him to continue with his initial subject or otherwise only teach him two AS levels with him possibly doing a short course in the summer for his third subject thy didn’t allow this but registered him for a third subject but then removed him from this within the third term. The education he received was horrendous with me spending every waking hour I could muster after work to teach him to get him through his first set of exams.

 

I didn’t pay the final terms fees as I was arguing I was only liable to pay for two subjects (its £1665 per subject per term) and as it turned out my cheque for the second term wasn’t received by the college either (which they never mentioned until sending me a court summons for a debt of £10,000).

 

I don’t know what to do! I filed a defence and now am set for an allocation hearing on the 5th of January. The college are lying and saying I didn’t pay for his college trip fee when I did (which they accepted orally over the phone that they were wrong to make a claim for this) they're claiming for three subjects per term when my son was only taught and entered in exams for two AS subjects!

 

What can I do? I don’t want to pay any of the fees now as they refused to release his results and give a reference to another college which I wanted to put him in this yr leading to my son not being in any college for this year. He’s in essence lost out on two years education as they have refused to release his first yr results and he has lost out on an academic year. Please help me - I can’t afford to go to the solicitors either. I just wanted a bright future for my son and now he is so disillusioned by the whole education process that he no longer wants to pursue his education.

 

Please any advice would be most appreciated.

Go to the hearing and state that you haven't received anything further from the Claimant, and reiterate what you've said above. Explain to the District Judge that as a Litigant in Person you're inexperienced in such matters and would appreciate this being taken into account.

 

Explain what you have written above, and state that you are seeking advice and may wish to make a counterclaim, dependant on the Claimants statements at the hearing, as your son wasted 2 years of his life and has suffered. Clarify that the Claimant did not provide what was promised and as such you should not be liable for any of the claimed fees.

 

You would also like to know from the Claimant if there is an Ombudsman or Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme that covers the Claimant's college, and if there is, you would ask of the court to stay the claim pending a decision of the relevant Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme or Ombudsman scheme; who you will complain to as soon as you have a copy of the court order.

 

If the District Judge asks when you would be ready to make a counterclaim, or decide against this, ask for 28 days.

 

Which college is it?

 

I do believe you may have a counterclaim but want to see the Particulars of Claim, Defence and know what happens tomorrow before I make such a recommendation. Please attach those to a new post - removing confidential details before you do so.

 

Also state to the District Judge that whilst the amount claimed is above £5,000, considering you are a Litigant-in-Person and the claim is relatively simple and far from complicated, you would respectfully request that if the claim is not struck out at this stage, it is allocated to the small claims track.

 

Make sure you understand everything I've written above ASAP tonight, and post any questions ASAP, if you don't understand.

 

Good Luck tomorrow. Don't panic!

[Parent84]

Hi.Thank you so much for your quick reply. I have made a counter claim claiming back the fees I have already paid the college.

 

Is there a reason why i should urge the track to be the small claims track and not the fast track? As i thought the judge wouldnt allow small claims track if the amount in dispute was over £5,000.

 

Also I dont think the collees Ombudsman or ADR scheme woukd help me in fact i genuinely believe they would find against me. But if you think this is still advisable then I shall request this at the hearing tomorrow.

 

Sorry for all the questions but you say explain to the judge that I am seeking advice - do i say I am seeking legal advice from a lawyer or just generally seeking advice?

 

I cannot thank you enouh for taking time out to advice me on this - thank you so much..

[legalpickle]

Hi.Thank you so much for your quick reply. I have made a counter claim claiming back the fees I have already paid the college.

Please post as an attachment the Particulars of Claim, your Defence & Counterclaim and anything else filed ASAP, removing confidential information.

 

Is there a reason why i should urge the track to be the small claims track and not the fast track? As i thought the judge wouldnt allow small claims track if the amount in dispute was over £5,000.

Technically claims below £5k in value go onto the small claims track, claims between £5k-£15k fast track & above £15k multi-track. BUT; a claim below £5k can go on fast-track or multi-track if it's complex, a claim between £5k-£15k in value can be moved to small claims track if it is far from complex or multi-track if it's substantially more complex.

 

The benefit is that costs will be substantially more limited if either side fails, and considering you don't have a Solicitor the costs you can claim are limited anyway.

 

Also I dont think the collees Ombudsman or ADR scheme woukd help me in fact i genuinely believe they would find against me. But if you think this is still advisable then I shall request this at the hearing tomorrow.

An ADR scheme is not run by the college, but covers the college. If it was run by the college then understandably it would rule against you. Is there any other reason it would rule against you? We need to know EVERYTHING now.

 

I think it is advisable to ask for 14 days to submit an Amended Defence and Particulars of Claim on the basis that you also wish to refer to other precedents that may be relevant to this claim.

 

Regarding an ADR scheme or Ombudsman scheme - don't ask the District Judge at this stage, but it may be worth offering such a stay by consent to the Claimant at a later stage.

 

Sorry for all the questions but you say explain to the judge that I am seeking advice - do i say I am seeking legal advice from a lawyer or just generally seeking advice?

State that family [and work] commitments which have been increased due to the effects of the Claimants behaviour on your son, and you would appreciate the courts compassion in dealing with this matter considering the aforementioned and the fact that you are a Litigant-in-Person.

 

I cannot thank you enouh for taking time out to advice me on this - thank you so much..

No problem. But:

 

1. In future please leave people with more time, last minute posts are hard to deal with, and some people who are very competent - and otherwise would help - don't like to deal with them because they feel too pressurized. I am also VERY busy with work, studies & helping other people on CAG whom I have committed to help already; so as much notice you can give me as possible is better - and works in your favour, because I am more likely to think more coherently if I don't feel like I am racing to type stuff for you in time.

 

2. Please make an effort to write coherently, in full sentences and spell correctly. I make an extreme effort for this and it frustrates me when people don't make a similar effort, especially when I am helping them.

 

3. Please understand that CAGgers don't get paid. We have other commitments too. This follows on from 1 above. Whilst we all do our best to help, sometimes things will come along that are more important to us, hence we won't be able to.

 

4. Nobody can guarantee success. I am very competent - and other CAGgers can attest to my competence - and have an above 98%, probably even 99% success rate. But cases are lost unfortunately.

 

5. Try to follow instructions to the letter. If you don't understand - ASK! If you think I'm wrong - I'm only human - so ASK, BUT RAISE YOUR REASONS WHY YOU THINK I'M WRONG, PLEASE! If I agree after reading your reasoning, I'll admit it and if I still think I'm right, we'll continue to discuss it - like mature adults - raising our reasoning.

 

6. I help people to help themselves. I feel better when somebody I help takes my comments on board and shows that in future documents. Some cases I am involved in or have been involved in have taken a long time. Where one takes those comments on board and later drafts better documents because of my advice, I feel better - it contributes to self-esteem of both me and you, as I will compliment you (as well as criticize when necessary!) - and feel that my help is benefitting you. If all I am doing is doing your work for you, I am less likely to want to help in future, and it makes me feel bad that I wasted time on your case.

 

My aim in being on CAG is to help you to help yourself and others & to spread the knowledge and wealth about! Please help us make CAG bigger and better by cooperating.

 

I am offline from Friday afternoon till Saturday evening every week as I am Orthodox Jewish and that is my Sabbath. Please respect this as I will respect your religious commitments.

 

Any more questions for tomorrow?

 

Good Luck.

 

Please keep us posted and post those documents up as soon as you can!

[Parent84]

Hi.

 

I have attached the original claim form unfortunately i cannot seem to find the copy of the defence document i sent but i did have a word copy of what i wrote in the defence. Please find both of these documents attached. I really appreciate your help and apologise for asking for help so late.

defence.doc

[GuidoT]

I have asked the Site Team to approve these.

 

Ensure that you have no personal details on them.

[Parent84]

Thanks. I have removed all personal details.

[maroondevo52]

Attachments approved.

[legalpickle]

Hi.

 

I have attached the original claim form unfortunately i cannot seem to find the copy of the defence document i sent but i did have a word copy of what i wrote in the defence. Please find both of these documents attached. I really appreciate your help and apologise for asking for help so late.

1. Prepare a folder - preferably lever-arch - with plastic punched pockets in it, and put all documents - a document in each punched pocket - with the newest documents first.

 

2. When you send documents always print 3 copies, and keep 1. 1 goes to the other side, and 1 to court.

 

3. Please don't attach images, and instead put them into Word documents and attach the Word document, that way it doesn't come up as a thumbnail. Please do this with the Claim Form and attach it ASAP.

[Parent84]

Hi, please find attached a typed version of the claim form in a word document.

 

Thank you once again.

claim form.doc

[legalpickle]

Hi, please find attached a typed version of the claim form in a word document.

 

Thank you once again.

That's not what I asked for. I asked for the claim form inserted into a Word document, not for you to type it up.

 

Your defence could be a reason that there's an Allocation Hearing. There's no Statement of Truth or breakdown of amounts. You've accused the Claimant of fraud - always a mistake - and haven't detailed your counterclaim.

Did you pay a court fee for the counterclaim? Did you detail the amount you were claiming anywhere else? Did you claim interest?

I wish you the best of luck and sincerely hope the District Judge shows compassion and lets you file a new Defence & Counterclaim within 14 days.

Please let us know what happened as soon as you get back home.

[Parent84]

I have made a complete shambles of this.

 

I shall go to court tomorrow and request I am allowed time to file a new defence and counterclaim. I thank you for your time and shall let you know what happens tomorrow.

 

Thank you so much for all your advice.

[legalpickle]

I have made a complete shambles of this.

 

I shall go to court tomorrow and request I am allowed time to file a new defence and counterclaim. I thank you for your time and shall let you know what happens tomorrow.

 

Thank you so much for all your advice.

GOOD LUCK!!!

 

Keep us posted.

[Parent84]

Hi legalpickle.

 

I went to the hearing and the other party didnt show up - the finance officer of the college called in ten minutes before the hearing to say he was unwell and wouldnt be attending.

 

When talking to the judge - he seemed clear in his understanding of the case which was that we owed two terms fees for two AS subjects and we should pay that since as matters stood at the moment we were on the wrong side. The judge said the other party rightfuly refused to give a reference as they werent paid their fees.

 

Do you think I do have a case or should I just cough up before the costs begin to build?

 

I appreciate today is your sabbath - but I would be most grateful for your reply when you get a chance tomorrow.

 

Thank you.

[bigegg]

Did you receive a copy of any signed agreement with the claim form?

Do you have a statement of account? (What you paid, for what, and when?)

When is your next hearing? (You can settle right up to the time of the hearing).

Are the college claiming for two course fees, or three - This could form part of your defence.

Without more information, it would be very difficult to advise.

Presumably you have agreed to pay x amount in return for your son's education - depending on how the contract is written, this could be "to make classes available", regardless of your son's attendance in the class.

I think your entire case depends on how the contract is written.

I have no experience of education contracts, but I would guess that even if your son's withdrawal from the class was accepted by the college, there would be a "cancellation charge"

[legalpickle]

Hi legalpickle.

 

I went to the hearing and the other party didnt show up - the finance officer of the college called in ten minutes before the hearing to say he was unwell and wouldnt be attending.

 

When talking to the judge - he seemed clear in his understanding of the case which was that we owed two terms fees for two AS subjects and we should pay that since as matters stood at the moment we were on the wrong side. The judge said the other party rightfuly refused to give a reference as they werent paid their fees.

 

Do you think I do have a case or should I just cough up before the costs begin to build?

 

I appreciate today is your sabbath - but I would be most grateful for your reply when you get a chance tomorrow.

 

Thank you.

I can't answer anything till I know what the order was. The reason the Judge said that is because your defence & counterclaim was so badly written - no offence meant. I believe that had you competently written the defence & counterclaim - quoting the legal reasons - you would most certainly - though I cannot guarantee anything - have heard a different opinion from the Judge.

 

What did the Judge say would happen next? What is the order the Judge is going to give?

Did you receive a copy of any signed agreement with the claim form?

Good question.

Do you have a statement of account? (What you paid, for what, and when?)

Good question.

When is your next hearing? (You can settle right up to the time of the hearing).

I think this is a bit misleading. The next hearing may not be a final hearing. The claim is above £5k. It's not that simple and clear cut.

Are the college claiming for two course fees, or three - This could form part of your defence.

I think it did, though badly written unfortunately.

Without more information, it would be very difficult to advise.

Exactly.

Presumably you have agreed to pay x amount in return for your son's education - depending on how the contract is written, this could be "to make classes available", regardless of your son's attendance in the class.

It could not be entirely regardless.

I think your entire case depends on how the contract is written.

Whilst I would say that this is relevant, I'd hardly agree that the entire case depends on this. There is a lot more than the contract, and I do have a clear route of what I would do in defence of such a claim. There are legal precedents and legislation that relate to this that would have a larger bearing on the outcome of the claim than the contract.

I have no experience of education contracts, but I would guess that even if your son's withdrawal from the class was accepted by the college, there would be a "cancellation charge"

Which dependant on the reasons for withdrawal could be unlawful or even illegal.

[Parent84]

Dear legal Pickle,

 

I am sorry for not getting back to you sooner - I did check onthis link a few times but didnt see an answer, I checked today and see that you replied on the same day for which I am so grateful.

 

I have received an order - which states that upon hearing the Defendant in person and the Claimant not attending, it is ordered that

1. The allocation hearing shall be adjourned to TUESDAY 23RD FEBRUARY 2010.

2.Costs of today are reserved.

 

In answer to bigeggs questions - to whom Im grateful for a reply!

 

 

Originally Posted by bigegg

Did you receive a copy of any signed agreement with the claim form?

 

I didnt receive any signed agreement with the claim form.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigegg

Do you have a statement of account? (What you paid, for what, and when?)

 

Payment was made via cheque for the terms fees and the holiday trip which the college originally claimed wasnt paid for but later accepted was paid for - was paid in cash to the administrator. Unfortunately I have no record of these. But the cllege do these accept these payments were made.

 

Originally Posted by bigegg

Are the college claiming for two course fees, or three - This could form part of your defence.

 

The college is claiming for three course fees.

 

My son struggled with Psychology and as his teacher wasn’t very fond of him (he expressed this clearly at parents evening) no help was offered to him instead he was removed from sitting the examination. So my son only sat two examinations in his first term.

In the second term my son was only studying two AS subjects per term. I then spoke to the college principal, to allow him to continue with psychology or otherwise only teach him two AS levels with him possibly doing a short course in the summer for his third subject.

The Principal was extremely aggressive with me and refused to entertain my suggestion and decided to enrol him for ICT although my son absolutely dislikes this subject and finds it extremely challenging. my son was very behind and no attention was given to him to help him catch up, he was then removed from the subject within the first few lessons.

The education he received was horrendous with me spending every waking hour I could muster after work to teach him to get him through his first set of exams.

 

I hope this helps - once again i am so sorry forthe late response and I would be extremely grateful for your advice.

[legalpickle]

Parent84:

 

I received your PM. Help given on CAG is given publicly. I cannot accept you sending me documents privately, sorry.

 

You have left this to exactly 2 weeks before your next hearing! The last hearing was 8th January, so you've seriously procrastinated.

 

I understand you're probably busy, but so am I. I don't ask for money for helping people on CAG and don't expect it. But I do expect people to act quickly and give me as much time as possible to respond.

 

There is no way I can prepare anything this quickly when I'm so bogged down with work:

- I have a defence & counterclaim to file, that will take me about 8 hours to prepare tomorrow.

- I have to prepare 2 AQ's & Responses to Defence by Friday.

- I have to prepare a Schedule of Costs & Response to Witness Statement by Monday.

- I have to study.

- I have to help others I am committed to helping and have been assisting for a lot longer.

- I have a hospital appointment on the 16th, court hearings on 17th & 18th.

- Over 20 documents to prepare by 24th February besides the above.

- Then I have court hearings on 3rd March, 7th April (x2), 21st April (x3) & 28th April (x2) besides for numerous other things on. And I'm going away on 6th May for 3 and a half weeks.

 

Had you given me more time, even with my VERY busy schedule, I would have at least tried to get you through this hearing.

 

I just can't do it at such short notice.

 

My recommendation - instruct a Solicitor. Get him to ask for an adjournment by consent, and get the documents in order.

 

If you need help finding a Solicitor, please advise whereabouts you live, approximately.

 

Apologies.

[Parent84]

Hi Legal Pickle,

 

I appreciate that you are busy and I appreciate more so the help that you are providing me.

 

Would it be possible for me to make a request to the court for the hearing date to be postponed?

[legalpickle]

Hi Legal Pickle,

 

I appreciate that you are busy and I appreciate more so the help that you are providing me.

 

Would it be possible for me to make a request to the court for the hearing date to be postponed?

The word is adjourned and possibly. But it would be more likely to be accepted if it came from a Solicitor who had just been instructed by you, unless you had darned good reason for leaving it so late!

 

And it wouldn't make me be able to find the time at this stage to assist. Apologies.

 

I seriously recommend you find a Solicitor to help you. If for that you need my assistance I'm happy to try and help.

[Parent84]

So even if it was adjourned you wouldnt be able to help me?

 

If not then do you think a part 36 offer would be a good step to take then? If so could you kindly tell me what arguments I could use to favour my case? Please, any help would be really appreciated. I know yu're busy but just some pointers as to what you're thinking that would help support my case I shall do the rest of the research and work the rest out my self I just need a lead.

[legalpickle]

So even if it was adjourned you wouldnt be able to help me?

 

If not then do you think a part 36 offer would be a good step to take then? If so could you kindly tell me what arguments I could use to favour my case? Please, any help would be really appreciated. I know yu're busy but just some pointers as to what you're thinking that would help support my case I shall do the rest of the research and work the rest out my self I just need a lead.

I do not think you have the ability to do this yourself. No offence meant. Your defence document proves this.

 

This is not a simple case where yes/no answers will suffice. It would be incompetent of me to give such short notes. A lead would not help you on how to phrase the documents. That is only something that experience teaches you.

 

This is a case where I would say unless you have legal background don't do it yourself.

 

Till it is clear as to their case and your case I would recommend against any offer. As you haven't written your case up competently they would refuse now, and if it were phrased competently they would probably be running to you to make an offer!

 

I seriously recommend you retain a Solicitor. I cannot reiterate this recommendation enough.

 

When I commit to something I see it through, and I would have likely committed - at least to phrasing some documents - a month ago, but now my schedule is so chocabloc I can't see myself having the time to phrase some lengthy and competent documents in your case till June/July at the earliest! Apologies.