Picture Loans - anyone help?

[Gram1]

Hi

 

I have a Picture loan as a 2nd charge on my property which at the time put me to 125% LTV -ve equity on the house so i was surprised at the time to get it.

 

Anyway, we are in finacial difficulties and have arrears and are struggling to pay the monthly amounts.

 

Does anyone have any experiences of dealing with Picture -

 

Any unenforceable agreements?

Any debts written off?

Any reduced settlement agreements?

 

The last option particularly interests me as ideally i would like to sell the house and start again, but could only do this if Picture (and Welcome who have a smaller 3rd charge on property) would agree to probably 50% f&f settlement figures. I know they are both in trouble now so anyone know if this is more/less likely or just pie in the sky wishful thinking?

 

I suspect things are going to heat up considerably soon with Picture and Welcome due to increasing arrears and they they will start to take further steps to recover funds, but would they push for bankruptcy/repossession when they would probably get less or nothing compared with if they worked with me to come to some sort of settlement or agreement?

 

Anyway, ramble over.

 

Any thoughts or experiences anyone?

 

Many Thanks.

[brassed-off-2]

1st thing to do is get a sar, full statement of account from inception to date...this will help you get the clearer (excuse the pun) picture...

 

other more experienced picture experts should be along soon to assist...but in the meantime im off for a google!! as the ltv/-ve equity is a new one for me!!

 

will let you know what i can unearth later gram1

 

b-o-2

[brassed-off-2]

one more question...did you approach them directly..or was it through a broker?

[Gram1]

one more question...did you approach them directly..or was it through a broker?

 

 

It was through a broker - Central Capital i think.

[brassed-off-2]

might be worth sending them a sar too.

 

from googling picture finance, it seems that they no longer giving mortgages, and have a company called target..??something acting as loan administrators (money collections). and as per the link i posted in your wfs thread, the fsa? stated they were in default...worth spending more time on this gram to get all your facts together...to take it forward..if you get chance have a look around the forum/ mse and google..to get further background info!!

[Gram1]

yeah, basically i think it is similar to welcome's current situation, but Picture have already gone tits up a few months ago and Target are the company who have taken on Picture's exisitng loan book.

Not sure if that makes them more open to settlement offers or not as i would imagine they would just be desperate to get as much cash as possible, but maybe Target are happy to play the waiting game and get as much as possible.

 

I've had a search through a lot of threads so far but there doesn;t seem to be too many Picture cases on the go that i can see.

 

Hoepfully some Picture experts will emerge soon to offer assistance/advice.

 

Thanks for your input so far!

[Londres]

Haven't dealt with them but know any Picture loans were probably securitised by Merrill Lynch earlier in the year. The loans would have been sold on to Scannan Finance. Attached is a rating agency report about the deal.

 

Any reduced settlement opportunities may be limited by the terms of the securitisation documentation as the servicer has to act in accordance with the servicing guidelines set forth there.

 

I've attached the prospectus from the Irish Stock Exchange.

 

This deal was done at a time when the securitisation market was completely shut, so it's most likely Merrill retained the bonds for its own account with a view to sell them down the road.

Scannan.pdf

10933Scannan.pdf

[Gram1]

That's a bit over my head but thanks for the info.

 

So basically it is unlikely Picture would go for a reduced settlement?

[Londres]

That's a bit over my head but thanks for the info.

 

So basically it is unlikely Picture would go for a reduced settlement?

 

They may be limited by the terms of an administration agreement, but it can't hurt to try. Ultimately, it's a cost benefit analysis for the lender. It's costlier to foreclose on a second lien because there is a first lien involved and if the combined loan to value of the borrower is close to 100%, then it may not be economical to foreclose at all as recovery will probably be next to nothing. If after taking into account the costs of potentially foreclosing on the loan, the lender sees that recovery will be minimal, it may be in their interest to settle for a reduced amount.

[Gram1]

They may be limited by the terms of an administration agreement, but it can't hurt to try. Ultimately, it's a cost benefit analysis for the lender. It's costlier to foreclose on a second lien because there is a first lien involved and if the combined loan to value of the borrower is close to 100%, then it may not be economical to foreclose at all as recovery will probably be next to nothing. If after taking into account the costs of potentially foreclosing on the loan, the lender sees that recovery will be minimal, it may be in their interest to settle for a reduced amount.

 

Do you think it would be worthwhile me sending some figures to them to see what they say - along the lines of -

 

My house is worth approx XX

I owe YY to mortgage and ZZ to you

If i sell house and pay off mortgage there will be XX - YY left to pay to you. Will you accept this as f&f settlement on our loan, as due to the current status of our account and the arrears, if you decided to repossess on the loan then this would be far more time consuming and costly for yourselves and you would probably end up receiving less? etc etc.

[Gram1]

or would this just be a waste of time?

[ZillaK]

I'm not an expert here so just giving my opinion.. but I think it's worth trying.. paint as poor a picture (hehe) as possible re: house value, local property market conditions, your situation relating to bankruptcy & repossesion/pursuing you for money if insufficient funds achieved through house sale etc etc..

 

..I believe it's best to start very low on offers and work up... especially where you've had the loan for a while and paid quite a bit to them.. but perhaps a little digging around is essential before mentioning offers at this stage..

 

..are Target the legal owners of rights/benefits of the loan now?

..is the loan regulated by the CCA1974?

 

ZillaK

[norm1aj]

Target are just a bunch of servicers for the loan, they get paid by the now defunct picture to "get the money in" pure and simple, be interesting to see if their employer cant pay them, based on the numbers that were in those PDF's that had been posted up, with increasing arrears etc etc, sooner or later something will happen.

 

x

[sgianthebard]

I have a crippling loan with Picture. (it's crippling because my circumstances have changed completely since taking out the loan 5 years ago)

 

I'm considering cancelling my DD to Picture of £800 per month and instead diverting that sum to a savings account for a few months just to see what will happen. Is it likely that Target will pursue the remainder of the loan all the way through the courts and repossession of my home which is in -ve equity?

 

Any advice/opinions would be welcome.

[Gram1]

I have a crippling loan with Picture. (it's crippling because my circumstances have changed completely since taking out the loan 5 years ago)

 

I'm considering cancelling my DD to Picture of £800 per month and instead diverting that sum to a savings account for a few months just to see what will happen. Is it likely that Target will pursue the remainder of the loan all the way through the courts and repossession of my home which is in -ve equity?

 

Any advice/opinions would be welcome.

 

Hi sgianthebard

 

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you.

 

First piece of advice - don't panic and try not to get too stressed.

 

I have been where you are, and at the moment am actually in a much worse position, but Picture/Target - although putting the pressure on a wee bit at several points - have on the whole been pretty good and pretty understanding. You just need to stand firm and dont agree to something with them that you cannot afford, but at the same time, try to work with them as they will try to help you. The best thing i have found is to be open and honest with them as it helps when it comes to making arrangements or agreements. ie if you make 1 arrangement with them and dont stick to it, or immediately after the arrangement is finished you go straight back to the same position, then it will make them less helpfull for future difficulties - I found the this out the hard way! - but my suggestion would be to be completely open, cards on the table and see what they have got to say for themselves. It could well be (as was the case with me ) that they wont do a hell of a lot to either help or enforce the debt if you are teetering around 1-2 months arrears (just give you monthly phonecalls laying it on a bit thick saying it is important you catch up, this is secured on your home bla bla bla.) , but the more in arrears you become the more urgent they will become to get soemthing in place. I strongly suggest you dont let it get to this level if u can help it as arrears are serious and i would never advise deliberatley going into arrears, but in my case i am now starting to see the light for the trees and that only happened when i was begining to think i was in serious trouble. Anyway.....

 

A brief outline of my knowledge of how they operate if u fall behind -

 

I think if you are around 1 -3 months in arrears i think you are dealt with by the usual team where they will try to agree a plan to pay extra over a set period to catch back up. Alternatively you can ask for a 1 month payment break due to exceptional circumstances. If you can explain to them that you are unable to make 1 months payment for a valid reason (ie income lowered, or some other unexpected priorty payment) then they will usualy agree to a 1 month only break and essentially they will add the month you didnt pay onto your overall balance owed and your repayments for the remaining months will increase very slightly to accomodate this. This can be a good option if it is a temporary 1 month blip and you reckon you will be ok after that. They dont shout about it from the rooftops so ask them and be firm on it to find out about it if you think this is a viable option for you. Also they only let you do this a max of once a year.

 

If you are 3-6 months arrears i think you are dealt with by what they call the "pre legal team" which sounds a lot scarier than it is. They are actually more helpfull and i think have more scope for what they can do to help.

eg if you make 3 monthly payments in a row for your full contractuall monthyl payment then they will consider "capitalising" your arrears. ie they will add it back into the loan and your remaining monthly payments increase a bit to accomodate this. It is effectively doing the same thing as the 1 month payment break but on a larger scale. So if your circumstances improve and you believe u can afford the monthly payments going forward but u have arrears that you want rif of, then this might be the way forward if you can afford the slightly increased monthly payments going forward.

 

Once you become up to 6 months arrears the pre legal team will start mentioning solicitors and the need to keep arrears below 6 months to prevent passing to solicitors for enforcement. In reality, more than 6 months may not be passed to solicitors but may be passed to the recoveries department who again may have a bit more scope for helping such as temporary reduced payment plans or reducing interest or something like that. Hopefully this wont ever be an issue for you though.

 

If you have any questions feel free to reply or pm me if u like.

 

None of what i have said should be taken as fact. it is only my opinion through experience myself or of 3rd parties or what i have read/researched, and your case may be completely different and not dealt with by Picture in the same way so please dont take anything ive said as given.

 

Having said that i hope u find it usefull and it helps you decide your next step.

 

My main suggestion is to talk to them and be honest and see what you can agree that is reasonable to both of you.

 

If, as your post suggested you are at the early stages of falling behind with payments then to answer your original question:

i do not think they will pursue the remainder of the loan all the way through the courts and repossession of your home. certainly not this stage.

 

In my opinion the steps i have described above are more than likely to happen before it gets to that stage, but take the first step to prevent it yourself by communicating with them and see where it gets you.

 

Best of luck and let me know how you got on/get on.

 

Cheers

[sgianthebard]

Thanks Gram1 for your good advice. I'm currently 2 months in arrears, but have made the last 5 months payments on time.

 

My situation is this: I took out the loan as a consolidation on various debts my wife and I accrued over many years. At the time we took the consolidation loan from Picture, my wife and I were both working in reasonably paid jobs and the repayments were not a problem.

 

One year after the loan was taken out, my wife and I separated. She agreed to sign her half of the house over to me if I would pay the loan back on my own. I agreed to this. Now, although I have been paying the loan on my own for 4 years, making the loan payment along with my other monthly living expenses (VERY frugal) takes me right to the edge of my financial limit. Whenever an unexpected expense comes along (car repair or boiler blowing up, etc), I have to make a choice whether to pay the loan or pay the emergency because I can't afford both. I've been in arrears a couple of times within the past 4 years and Picture has wiped the arrears by adding them to my total bill. This has, of course, increased the monthly payments putting me closer to the edge financially and with increased interest rates, sometimes I don't know if there will be enough money in the bank on the due date to pay it

 

I pay just under 800 a month to this loan and to be honest I can see me missing more payments before the loan is paid in full (in another 5 years).

 

I'm going to send a SAR to Picture so that I can have a better look at the situation and I'll take it from there. I may take your offer and PM you when I receive the details.

[madh21]

I have a picture loan too. I fell into arrears. Since then they have frozen interest indefinitely and reduced my payments to around 2/3rds of contractual. They were very keen to work with me and pay a comfortable amount each month. Now anything I pay is used to reduce the balance and they have said I can continue with this as long as I wish.

 

Hope this helps.

[Smokieone]

Hi Madh21 -we currently have three months worth of arrears and would like to offer a reduced monthly payment for next 6 months until we get in a position to get back to monthly amount. Would be interested to hear how you got the interest frozen as this ould help us out greatly

 

Thanks

[sgianthebard]

I'd be interested to hear how you got them to freeze interest too madh21 please.

[madh21]

They offered to do this for me indefinately so that the balance would reduce and I could work at increasing my payments. Unfortunately, since, I have missed a couple of payments and now they have passed my account to a solicitors to deal with. Strange thing is....they have issued a claim for the balance but not a reposession???? I received this yesterday from Cardiff County Court, its all photocopied, not originals. Claimaint seeks payment of the money outstanding, VALUE - expects to recover more than £15000 ( balance is 42000). The Claimant claims the total sum, and daily interest. No mention of a repossession. It also enclosed the usual forms, again photocopied versions. Very confused now!!!!

[sgianthebard]

Any update Madh21?

[sgianthebard]

Anyone in a different position now that Webb are involved?

[indeep63]

Just written to Webb to tell them we can't afford our monthly payments and need to agree a reduced payment. Currently pay £512 a month on top of a £350 a month mortgage on a house that is now worth about 115000 if we are lucky - at it's peak worth about 130k

 

Cancelled the DD which has upset them already but told them if they give me their bank details I will pay them by direct transfer. That way the ball is my court : )

 

Surely the gov will have to do something soon to get the housing market sorted? We could try and sell and see if Webb will accept about 20k less.

 

Please picture/webb people keep posting!

[gem007]

Hi everyone,

just reading through this thread, albeit a couple of years ago, just thought I would ask what situation you're all in now with Picture.

My Husband and I too was a sucker for taking out a secured loan with them in February 2007 for £30k and although we have paid £20k to them over the last 6 years we still owe £28k

Our property has been valued at £96k and our mortgage is £92k, We're desperate to move due to work/family balance but this second charge on our home with Picture is making me feel like there is no light at the end of the tunnel and very upsetting to say the least, infact it'd be fair to say it's like having a massive anchor pulling us down!

Has anyone managed to get a much reduced settlement figure off Picture or secured debt turned into unsecured debt.

Any info, thoughts or ideas would be very much grately received.

Thankyou

gem007 x

[indeep63]

Hi everyone,

just reading through this thread, albeit a couple of years ago, just thought I would ask what situation you're all in now with Picture.

My Husband and I too was a sucker for taking out a secured loan with them in February 2007 for £30k and although we have paid £20k to them over the last 6 years we still owe £28k

Our property has been valued at £96k and our mortgage is £92k, We're desperate to move due to work/family balance but this second charge on our home with Picture is making me feel like there is no light at the end of the tunnel and very upsetting to say the least, infact it'd be fair to say it's like having a massive anchor pulling us down!

Has anyone managed to get a much reduced settlement figure off Picture or secured debt turned into unsecured debt.

Any info, thoughts or ideas would be very much grately received.

Thankyou

gem007 x

 

Hi we are now much further on. Convinced Webb to let us sell, paid off half off our loan to them and they agreed to convert the rest to unsecured as we are now renting. They are still being a pain, trying to get more out of us in monthly payment. Their communications between departments is appalling. They keep ringing us but don't respond to letters. So yes, definitely state your case for selling although if planning to buy they will want to transfer security. Good luck!