HSBC CCA going to court

[Gemz]

Hi, was recommended by MSE to post here too.

 

This is the paperwork trail we have so far:

 

02/12/06: Experian report: HSBC - Card Service

26/12/06: HSBC Statement: Balance showing

17/12/07: HSBC Letter: confirming new standing order (no further details) - started DMP

01/02/07: HSBC Letter: Default notice

08/03/07: Payment Services Bureau: confirms 170 payments at £50 a month and 1 payment at £45.25

08/03/07: CCA'd HSBC (letter missing - we have a signed for slip)

28/04/08: CL Finance Letter re. CCA: "We have been in contact with our predecessors, HSBC Bank PLC, who have advised us that this document is unavailable." They returned the £1 cheque

12/01/09: HSBC Letter: "account assigned to CL Finance as of 15th December 2008. The total balance sold was £xxxx, as at the date of sale."

12/01/09: CL Finance Letter: confirms that they have debt and we should continue to pay £50 a month.

20/02/09: CCA'd CL Finance (we have a letter from Post Office confirming postal order was crossed and receipt from Post Office)

March 2009: Stopped payments

09/06/09: CL Finance Letter: formal notification we have failed to make payments

06/07/09: Lewis Debt Recovery Final Demand: issued on behalf of CL Finance Ltd

13/07/09: Letter send to Lewis Debt Recovery stating account is in Serious Dispute (certificate of posting)

14/12/09: County Court Claim Form: on behalf of CL Finance Ltd

 

What do we do next?

Edited January 11, 2010 by Gemz

[gyos]

28/04/08: CL Finance Letter re. CCA: "We have been in contact with our predecessors, HSBC Bank PLC, who have advised us that this document is unavailable." They returned the £1 cheque (balance = £7345.25)

 

they've gone to court despite that? Whoops!

[Gemz]

Actually the court letter is from CL Finance Ltd, sorry should have made that clearer, but yes no CCA admitted.

[blind-as-a-bat]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2164565

 

Advise given so far, just so you know;)

 

Thanks in advance guys n gals:)

Edited December 24, 2009 by blind-as-a-bat

[supasnooper]

Please can you post up the Particulars of Claim (normally located on the bottom left hand side of the claim form) being vague with the numbers.

 

You will need to send CL Finance a CPR 31.14 request -

 

 

Your Name

Your address

Your Town

Your County

Your Postcode

Date

Dear Sir,

 

Re:

In the XXXXXXXXXXX County Court

Claimant XXXXXXX -v- Defendant – Your Name

Claim Number: xxxxxxxx

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1. The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2. The assignment*

 

3. The default notice*

 

4. The termination notice*

 

5. [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully,

Your Name

Amend to suit.

Send the letter unsigned and by at LEAST Recorded Delivery.

[blind-as-a-bat]

The claimant's claim is for the sum of

xxxx being monies due from

the defendant to the claimant under

a regulated credit agreement between the

defendant and HSBC bank plc

under reference xxxxx

and assigned to the claimant on the

xxxxx of xxxxx notice of which been

given to the defendant.

 

The defendant has failed to make payment

in accordance with the terms of the

agreement and a default notice has been

served upon the defendant pursuant to

Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act

1974

 

The claimant claims the sum of xxxxx

 

Standard POC for HC/CL.

 

Fermi has already suggested CPR 31.14 request on MSE, but is a CPR18 also needed to get copies of statemants to see if the amount is correct and how much is charges(if any) I am rusty at this, so not sure CPR 31.14 request alone is enough

 

just to add, Not seen, or even sure if a valid default has been issued yet.

 

thanks supasnooper

[Gemz]

That's all the paperwork we have, shall I try and post the default notice we have from HSBC from 07?

 

Thanks blind, will send that Monday, recorded.

[Docman]

gemz

 

You have 14 days from the date of service (ie 16 December) to file an acknowledgment of service. If the claim form (N1) was issued through the court's bulk centre in Northampton, you can acknowledge online. Otherwise you have to send your acknowledgement to the court that issued the claim. If you haven't done so yet, you should acknowledge service now. That will provide a further 14 days to file a defence. I suggest you also send the letter that supasnooper posted in #5 above.

[blind-as-a-bat]

gemz

 

You have 14 days from the date of service (ie 16 December) to file an acknowledgment of service. If the claim form (N1) was issued through the court's bulk centre in Northampton, you can acknowledge online. Otherwise you have to send your acknowledgement to the court that issued the claim. If you haven't done so yet, you should acknowledge service now. That will provide a further 14 days to file a defence. I suggest you also send the letter that supasnooper posted in #5 above.

 

Done yesterday:)

[Gemz]

As blind-as-a-bat said, the acknowledgment was filed on the 23rd December

 

Letter has gone off First Class Recorded today (was the next available posting day).

 

Next move?

[Craftygirl42]

Nothing you can do at the moment, except wait and see if they send anything back in response to your request.

 

You could search around the forums for an embarrassed defence, its usual for nothing to be supplied and thats the defence you would need to enter in that scenario. Make sure you keep a close eye on the date you need to submit your defence, you dont want them to get a Judgement by Default.

[Gemz]

Does MCOL show the cut off date or do I have to work it out?

[Docman]

I don't think so but others may have a more knowledgable response.

 

You have 28 days from date of service to file a defence but I wouldn't leave it too long. I suggest you file a defence the week after next ie around 10/11 January.

[gyos]

Have a look through the DCA Legal Successes board.

 

Plenty of cases like yours where Cohens have come unstuck.

 

For example

 

CL Finance Ltd. Recieved a court claim form**WON** Discontinued

 

Howard Cohen/C.L Finance / **DISCONTINUED**

 

Cohens Claim Form Received ***WON***

 

Welcome Finance and Howard Cohen **WON - DISCONTINUED**

 

Looks as if Cohen tend to ignore the CPR request. So presumably part of the defence would include that if it applies in time.

[Gemz]

Thanks gyos, I keep seeing AQ's mentioned - what's this?

[gyos]

Allocation Questionnaire.

 

Just a form that you and the creditor have to fill in once you are defending so that the court can work out where and how to hold the case.

 

It also gives you a chance to request that the court makes directions.

 

In this case assuming that Cohens ignore the request for an agreement, then you would ask the court to make an order requiring them to to do so before the case progresses.

[Gemz]

Just want to clarify on dates.

 

Submitted Acknowledgement of Service on the 23rd December.

Sent CPR 31.14 Request on the 29th December.

 

So CL Finances two weeks is up on the 12th? (14 days later) Shall I enter defence after that or is that too late?

[gyos]

You have 28 days from date of service to file a defence but I wouldn't leave it too long. I suggest you file a defence the week after next ie around 10/11 January.

 

See above I think.

[nick20045]

First question: Once you got told that there was no copy of the agreement, did you send a letter putting the debt into dispute?

 

Second question: You say you got a letter from the bank saying the debt as sold and a letter from CL saying debt bought. You give the same day. Important questions: (a) The dates on the letters are they the same dates? (b) Were they both received in the same envelope? © Were they sent by recorded mail? (d) On the letter which is supposed to be from the bank, does it have any special markings? (Like Barcodes or a small box or something?).

 

Third question: Rough idea of when original agreement taken out.

 

Answer the three above correctly (and honestly.......... not that I am implying that you will not but it will make a big difference between "What I think" and "What I know").

 

After that and pending your replies good chance to get the case struck out.

Edited January 10, 2010 by nick20045
Added question 3 and changed question 2

[nick20045]

Am adding question 4: Any chance of an upload of the default notice? Once you scan it and before uploading just cover any sensitive information (name, address etc) and upload. It is best to see if you also have a defective default notice.

[the main man]

Date of sevice is 5 days after the date stated on the claim form, you then have 28 days to enter a defence.

[nick20045]

Adding question 5: (Might as well get them in). You DID change the avenue of Court from wherever it is to YOUR local County Court???????

 

That is 5 questions asked. Please reply to them. Will give more insight into the problem.

[MandM]

Hi Gemz,

 

Have read your thread now on both sites. Out of interest, did you also send CPR 18 request? as I can't see it.

 

As TMM stated, it's 28 days + 5. But don't leave it until the last day (just in case your PC blows up )

 

Do you have your ED ready yet?

 

Might still be worth putting in a SAR to HSBC as it could flush out something of interest.

 

M

Edited January 9, 2010 by MandM
added a bit

[nick20045]

Hi Gemz,

 

Have read your thread now on both sites. Out of interest, did you also send CPR 18 request? as I can't see it.

 

M

And why does the member have to send a CPR18 request when a Site Team member has advised (in post 5) and correctly said (and even gave a specimen letter) "You will need to send CL Finance a CPR 31.14 request"?????

[MandM]

And why does the member have to send a CPR18 request when a Site Team member has advised (in post 5) and correctly said (and even gave a specimen letter) "You will need to send CL Finance a CPR 31.14 request"?????

 

In some instances it pays to send both as it gives the OC little or no room to manouvre.

 

M