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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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Banning from stores-how can it be enforced ?


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Hello all

 

I just want to ask, if you are barred from say a Sainsburys or Asda store for shoplifting in that particular store, and they say that you are barred from ALL UK stores, is this true? and how would they monitor it?

 

Someone I know got caught shoplifting (police didn't press charges) and he was told by that Store Manager, never to enter any store in the UK again, otherwise he will get arrested for trespassing!!!! Surely that store wouldn't send his picture to every store in the UK, or would the stores head office keep a log of these sort of offences? - if the police just gave you a slap on the wrist? It is doing my head in, I need to go shopping (with him) and he poop's himself and won't come inside the store with me from fear! - Do the CCTV tapes and incident reports get issued to head offices?

 

Any tips or advice would be appreciated thanks

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Welcome to the site.

I have moved your post into your own thread and re-titled.

This is something thats been discussed in detail within a number of threads.

There is evidence to suggest that some groups do circulate known or problematic customers details who have been banned from one store.

I dont know of any prosecutions where a store has sought to enforce it through the Courts (although thats not to say theres been none)

I would imagine that the costs involved would not justify the result unless it was for hard core serial offenders.

Some Courts already order restrictions and Police have powers too.

In this day and age theres lots of places to shop and many people on here have expressed no real desires to revisit a place they have had the experience of detention accusations and threatened Court action with.

No doubt you will get replies from some of those people here.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thank you for your reply. That is helpful, see another issue is, my friend has started a job at a different to store to the incident, and is worried that in time the retailer may find out what he has done. Are they likely to have an offenders register at head office for example? He hasn't been into the store when the incident happened, so he is safe there, he is more worried about his name being know at head office, and maybe the tapes. This incident was over 12 months ago. I have told him not to worry as I "think" that store would just manage it at a local level with no need to tell HO? Thanks in advance for your help and responses!

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CCTV data is usually wiped well inside of 12 months since the data protection act lays down quite stern guidelines in relation to the storage of recorded images-they should be kept for no longer than is reasonably required.

Its difficult to say whether information will surface which may tie your friend in with anything implicating.

Its reasonable to assume that since they are working in the job now,that any initial tests will have been satisfied.

Its something that really he can only try to deal with if it becomes a problem.For the moment it doesnt seem to be the case.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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lady meow Many stores now run secret programs behind their CCTV which measure your gate, your facial features & your voice, it is by this method that they can enforce a countrywide ban. You go into any other of their stores you'll be automatically identified via their CCTV

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Thanks Martin, that is what I suspected. And as you say, if he was offered the job, then it hasn't been picked up.

 

JonCris, what a strange reply, I don't think that Retailers would go to that expense, unless the criminal was a repeat offender maybe, sounds more like MI5 that a retailer!!!

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Technology now is very advanced and the costs of using this stuff have become very much in the reach of many,let alone the big stores we are talking of here-dont forget they offset these costs against tax so its not like employing them will break the bank.

Insurance companies are increasingly demanding it too.

You only have to look at the advances in technology that we can see in everyday domestic life from mobile phones to Av equipment to understand that James Bonds tac from yesteryear is here for many today.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thanks Martin, that is what I suspected. And as you say, if he was offered the job, then it hasn't been picked up.

 

JonCris, what a strange reply, I don't think that Retailers would go to that expense, unless the criminal was a repeat offender maybe, sounds more like MI5 that a retailer!!!

 

 

Nothing strange about it & I can confirm beyond doubt that they do operate such systems The only thing that is unclear (for now) is do they share it with other retailers who operate the same systems

 

It appears that the systems are provided AND operated by independent companies with multiple clients thereby reducing costs. Also if correct then whilst they can claim the data stays with one firm the data would be available to ALL of their clients

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surely sharing images of people would breach the data protection act and civil rights? hummmm your comments have interseted me so I think out of cauriosity I will have to research this further, do you have any tips, websites, etc I could visit?

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Thanks Martin, that is what I suspected. And as you say, if he was offered the job, then it hasn't been picked up.

 

JonCris, what a strange reply, I don't think that Retailers would go to that expense, unless the criminal was a repeat offender maybe, sounds more like MI5 that a retailer!!!

 

 

Nothing strange about it & I can confirm beyond doubt that they do operate such systems The only thing that is unclear (for now) is do they share it with other retailers who operate the same systems

 

It appears that the systems are provided AND operated by independent companies with multiple clients thereby reducing costs. Also if correct then whilst they can claim the data stays with one firm the data would be available to ALL of their clients

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surely sharing images of people would breach the data protection act and civil rights? hummmm your comments have interseted me so I think out of cauriosity I will have to research this further, do you have any tips, websites, etc I could visit?

 

Please do some research then share it with us I'm sorry I don't want to be mysterious but I can't provide any advice as to where to look as these allegations are already being investigated elsewhere & such inf/advice might jeopardize these.

 

However I can say in order to cause them concern if they are reading this forum some very very senior persons are interested in what's been going on behind their backs. So far they see it as mission creep & wholly unwarranted

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erm its their access to their gardens or pathway leading to their front doors.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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ah right. street CCTV, that seems slightly more viable. What is a persons gate?

 

 

It's not just street CCTV Some retailers use in the hope it will ID 'potential' thieves

 

A persons gate means how you walk, body language etc Body language which as you must know many physiologists claim can identify many things about a persons personality

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Guest Andropod

I can tell you now (as a serious professional with years of experience in this area) that UK retailers do NOT employ super powerful software programs that recognise your gait or facial features and certainly do not use such stuff for looking out for problem customers. This is scifi. They do employ sophisticated software to analyse sales data for fraud, they use EAS tagging and CCTV cameras linked digital recorders or VCRs to passively to detect or prevent theft. But this stuff is no more intelligent at spotting a face from a crowd than my cat was (before he got run over).

 

The only mechanism for the retailer to recognise anyone as a "banned" customer, (I love the fact they still use customer to describe someone who they don't want in their stores) is to take a hard copy picture and circulate it. Doesn't work for retailers with hundreds of stores and to be honest they only bother to do this when trying to catch professional thieves/gangs who are hitting their stores within a geographical area.

 

At best all they can do is ask the person who is banned to leave their property and if refused can use reasonable force to make it happen. The idea they'd take legal action for someone who was never charged with an offence and just got a banning notice is laughable. However, there are some very nasty and professional criminals who have received court orders that prevent them from visiting certain retailers, this is a different thing altogether.

 

There are too many consipracy theorists out there who want to think big business is watching their every move and spend millions on surveillance, know everything about us and probably have UFOs secreted away too. Rubbish.

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You have watched too many scifi movies I am afriad!

 

 

You must have been watching them too then-or else wouldnt be able to make the comparison:!:

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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"They do employ sophisticated software to analyse sales data for fraud"

 

"But this stuff is no more intelligent at spotting a face from a crowd than my cat"

 

 

So its sophisticated but not intelligent ?

There is very intelligent software and hardware to analyse CCTV recorded images-multiplexers being one.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Guest Andropod

Ah, please do not get into a debate on what the difference between sophisticated and intelligent is!? That could go on for days.

 

A CCTV multiplexer allows multiple CCTV images to be shown on a single screen in a grid. Hmmm, clever yes, the technology to allow this, but still requires a human being to analyse the images.

 

Please believe me, I have nearly 20 years experience in law enforcement and retail Loss Prevention industry, often working with cutting edge technology. There are some really impressive software packages that do clever things but nothing replaces the human brain, not even close, plus humans are really cheap in comparison!

 

So nobody, not even the government, MI5, the Police, actually not even the US government, can do reliably some of the stuff being talked about here at the prices retailers would want to pay!!! Why should they spend millions upon millions when they can employ someone just above minimum wage in each store for a fraction of the cost?

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