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lady meow

Banning from stores-how can it be enforced ?

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Hello all

 

I just want to ask, if you are barred from say a Sainsburys or Asda store for shoplifting in that particular store, and they say that you are barred from ALL UK stores, is this true? and how would they monitor it?

 

Someone I know got caught shoplifting (police didn't press charges) and he was told by that Store Manager, never to enter any store in the UK again, otherwise he will get arrested for trespassing!!!! Surely that store wouldn't send his picture to every store in the UK, or would the stores head office keep a log of these sort of offences? - if the police just gave you a slap on the wrist? It is doing my head in, I need to go shopping (with him) and he poop's himself and won't come inside the store with me from fear! - Do the CCTV tapes and incident reports get issued to head offices?

 

Any tips or advice would be appreciated thanks

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Welcome to the site.

I have moved your post into your own thread and re-titled.

This is something thats been discussed in detail within a number of threads.

There is evidence to suggest that some groups do circulate known or problematic customers details who have been banned from one store.

I dont know of any prosecutions where a store has sought to enforce it through the Courts (although thats not to say theres been none)

I would imagine that the costs involved would not justify the result unless it was for hard core serial offenders.

Some Courts already order restrictions and Police have powers too.

In this day and age theres lots of places to shop and many people on here have expressed no real desires to revisit a place they have had the experience of detention accusations and threatened Court action with.

No doubt you will get replies from some of those people here.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thank you for your reply. That is helpful, see another issue is, my friend has started a job at a different to store to the incident, and is worried that in time the retailer may find out what he has done. Are they likely to have an offenders register at head office for example? He hasn't been into the store when the incident happened, so he is safe there, he is more worried about his name being know at head office, and maybe the tapes. This incident was over 12 months ago. I have told him not to worry as I "think" that store would just manage it at a local level with no need to tell HO? Thanks in advance for your help and responses!

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CCTV data is usually wiped well inside of 12 months since the data protection act lays down quite stern guidelines in relation to the storage of recorded images-they should be kept for no longer than is reasonably required.

Its difficult to say whether information will surface which may tie your friend in with anything implicating.

Its reasonable to assume that since they are working in the job now,that any initial tests will have been satisfied.

Its something that really he can only try to deal with if it becomes a problem.For the moment it doesnt seem to be the case.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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lady meow Many stores now run secret programs behind their CCTV which measure your gate, your facial features & your voice, it is by this method that they can enforce a countrywide ban. You go into any other of their stores you'll be automatically identified via their CCTV

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Thanks Martin, that is what I suspected. And as you say, if he was offered the job, then it hasn't been picked up.

 

JonCris, what a strange reply, I don't think that Retailers would go to that expense, unless the criminal was a repeat offender maybe, sounds more like MI5 that a retailer!!!

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Technology now is very advanced and the costs of using this stuff have become very much in the reach of many,let alone the big stores we are talking of here-dont forget they offset these costs against tax so its not like employing them will break the bank.

Insurance companies are increasingly demanding it too.

You only have to look at the advances in technology that we can see in everyday domestic life from mobile phones to Av equipment to understand that James Bonds tac from yesteryear is here for many today.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thanks Martin, that is what I suspected. And as you say, if he was offered the job, then it hasn't been picked up.

 

JonCris, what a strange reply, I don't think that Retailers would go to that expense, unless the criminal was a repeat offender maybe, sounds more like MI5 that a retailer!!!

 

 

Nothing strange about it & I can confirm beyond doubt that they do operate such systems The only thing that is unclear (for now) is do they share it with other retailers who operate the same systems

 

It appears that the systems are provided AND operated by independent companies with multiple clients thereby reducing costs. Also if correct then whilst they can claim the data stays with one firm the data would be available to ALL of their clients

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surely sharing images of people would breach the data protection act and civil rights? hummmm your comments have interseted me so I think out of cauriosity I will have to research this further, do you have any tips, websites, etc I could visit?

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Thanks Martin, that is what I suspected. And as you say, if he was offered the job, then it hasn't been picked up.

 

JonCris, what a strange reply, I don't think that Retailers would go to that expense, unless the criminal was a repeat offender maybe, sounds more like MI5 that a retailer!!!

 

 

Nothing strange about it & I can confirm beyond doubt that they do operate such systems The only thing that is unclear (for now) is do they share it with other retailers who operate the same systems

 

It appears that the systems are provided AND operated by independent companies with multiple clients thereby reducing costs. Also if correct then whilst they can claim the data stays with one firm the data would be available to ALL of their clients

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There are already some street CCTV systems which run these systems that claim to be able to identify criminal intent from a persons gate

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surely sharing images of people would breach the data protection act and civil rights? hummmm your comments have interseted me so I think out of cauriosity I will have to research this further, do you have any tips, websites, etc I could visit?

 

Please do some research then share it with us I'm sorry I don't want to be mysterious but I can't provide any advice as to where to look as these allegations are already being investigated elsewhere & such inf/advice might jeopardize these.

 

However I can say in order to cause them concern if they are reading this forum some very very senior persons are interested in what's been going on behind their backs. So far they see it as mission creep & wholly unwarranted

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ah right. street CCTV, that seems slightly more viable. What is a persons gate?

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erm its their access to their gardens or pathway leading to their front doors.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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JonCris means gait - the software used by the systems referred to compares the way an individual walks with the existing record.

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ah right. street CCTV, that seems slightly more viable. What is a persons gate?

 

 

It's not just street CCTV Some retailers use in the hope it will ID 'potential' thieves

 

A persons gate means how you walk, body language etc Body language which as you must know many physiologists claim can identify many things about a persons personality

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It is because they believe that through body language they can ID existing AND potential criminals ... do your research

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Guest Andropod

I can tell you now (as a serious professional with years of experience in this area) that UK retailers do NOT employ super powerful software programs that recognise your gait or facial features and certainly do not use such stuff for looking out for problem customers. This is scifi. They do employ sophisticated software to analyse sales data for fraud, they use EAS tagging and CCTV cameras linked digital recorders or VCRs to passively to detect or prevent theft. But this stuff is no more intelligent at spotting a face from a crowd than my cat was (before he got run over).

 

The only mechanism for the retailer to recognise anyone as a "banned" customer, (I love the fact they still use customer to describe someone who they don't want in their stores) is to take a hard copy picture and circulate it. Doesn't work for retailers with hundreds of stores and to be honest they only bother to do this when trying to catch professional thieves/gangs who are hitting their stores within a geographical area.

 

At best all they can do is ask the person who is banned to leave their property and if refused can use reasonable force to make it happen. The idea they'd take legal action for someone who was never charged with an offence and just got a banning notice is laughable. However, there are some very nasty and professional criminals who have received court orders that prevent them from visiting certain retailers, this is a different thing altogether.

 

There are too many consipracy theorists out there who want to think big business is watching their every move and spend millions on surveillance, know everything about us and probably have UFOs secreted away too. Rubbish.

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Guest Andropod

You have watched too many scifi movies I am afriad!

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You have watched too many scifi movies I am afriad!

 

 

You must have been watching them too then-or else wouldnt be able to make the comparison:!:


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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"They do employ sophisticated software to analyse sales data for fraud"

 

"But this stuff is no more intelligent at spotting a face from a crowd than my cat"

 

 

So its sophisticated but not intelligent ?

There is very intelligent software and hardware to analyse CCTV recorded images-multiplexers being one.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Guest Andropod

You got me. The film Enemy of the State has a lot to answer for. Utter tosh!

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Guest Andropod

Ah, please do not get into a debate on what the difference between sophisticated and intelligent is!? That could go on for days.

 

A CCTV multiplexer allows multiple CCTV images to be shown on a single screen in a grid. Hmmm, clever yes, the technology to allow this, but still requires a human being to analyse the images.

 

Please believe me, I have nearly 20 years experience in law enforcement and retail Loss Prevention industry, often working with cutting edge technology. There are some really impressive software packages that do clever things but nothing replaces the human brain, not even close, plus humans are really cheap in comparison!

 

So nobody, not even the government, MI5, the Police, actually not even the US government, can do reliably some of the stuff being talked about here at the prices retailers would want to pay!!! Why should they spend millions upon millions when they can employ someone just above minimum wage in each store for a fraction of the cost?

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