DWP Flexible new deal scheme

[mrsg-UK]

Is there anyway of getting out of this?

 

The providers cant offer any training to benefit me. I normally work in I.T and all they say is we will send you to a Charity Shop to do work and then Maths and English?

 

Could the european convention on human rights help

[ErikaPNP]

No to both questions

[mrsg-UK]

Why not? we are being forced into something that wont help or benefit us at all. yet we get told if we dont go we lose our £60 per week.

 

Surely its againts my human rights????

 

also they want me to do a work placement in a charity shop, yet i have worked in I.T for over 8 years.

 

and work at the shop for no extra pay!!!!

 

what about the national min wage regulations???

[mrsg-UK]

look at (edit)

 

Some shocking readings.

 

Here is a copy of a letter that i received today

 

Following your recent interview at the Jobcentre, we have arranged a meeting for you with one of our Personal Job Advisers (PJA) to discuss the support available to help you get the most out of our Flexible New Deal service.

Your appointment is with (edit) on Dec 8 2009 at 10:00AM.Our address, a location map and details of local transport links are printed overleaf. Your meeting will last up to 1V2 hours and is to discuss the support available to enable your return to work. Please bring the following with you to the appointment:

1. Your Jobseekers Allowance (iSA) signing book (ES4O)

2. Plus one of the following:

Passport, photo-card driving licence, medical card or birth certificate

3. A copy of your current CV if you have one

It is important you attend and take part in the interview as it is a condition of the Jobseekers Allowance you are receiving. If you find you cannot attend the interview you must contact us using the telephone number highlighted at the top of this letter to make alternative arrangements. Please note that failure to attend this appointment without contacting us may result in loss of your Job Seekers Allowance.

During the interview your PJA will also consider supporting your future attendance through assisting with the following:

• Cost of registered childcare (payment will be made direct to the

registered/approved childminder)

• Cost of travel (you will need to bring proof of this to the appointment, e.g., travel

tickets)

• A language interpreter, BSL signer or any other specialist support you may need

If you feel you have any other special requirements to ensure your interview is as comfortable as possible or you want to know more about Flexible New Deal, please get in touch using the telephone number highlighted at the top of this letter.

Now i argue that the lines above that i put in bold letters, is not fair, who gives them the right to demand a copy of my driving licence. Edited December 3, 2009 by ErikaPNP
unapproved link removed, and name of individual removed

[ErikaPNP]

Why not? we are being forced into something that wont help or benefit us at all. yet we get told if we dont go we lose our £60 per week.

 

Surely its againts my human rights????

 

also they want me to do a work placement in a charity shop, yet i have worked in I.T for over 8 years.

 

and work at the shop for no extra pay!!!!

 

what about the national min wage regulations???

 

Why not is because the DWP are entitled to set the conditions of receiving benefit, and have done so.

 

In regard to NMW, you would not be employed, you would be on a work based placement as part of the conditions of your claim. NMW does not apply to that.

[ErikaPNP]

I would assume they are asking for those documents as proof of your identity.

[mrsg-UK]

So we have to go to a Class Room, take a maths and english test

 

be told we all need to go on a 30 hour week session and do work placements that are not relevant to any of our previous jobs.

 

Write a C.V which we already have and worked many times for me in the past, the problem is there is no work in this area in I.T

 

If i ask for training in I.T to allow me to secure work in say London, i get told no, we dont provide that. you will have to go do the New Deal course.

 

do you see what i'm getting at. its a complate wast of time and i want to find a job on my own not have some one paid £3000 to teach me stuff that i already know etc.

[mrsg-UK]

Agreed, but what happens if i refuse?

 

i'm not being funny its just really peed me off with this (edit)

 

I would assume they are asking for those documents as proof of your identity.

Edited December 3, 2009 by ErikaPNP
please refer to section 3.6 of the forum rules

[ErikaPNP]

If you refuse, your benefit will cease. I had a friend in the same position as you, she had to work in a second hand shop. Apparently to teach her "how to settle into employment". She already had a part time job, and had done for a long time. She also has a Math degree. She couldn't work full time as she had toddler and a partner who was very ill and could not be left with the toddler for long periods as he was unable to cope due to his health issues. He was going through an appeal at the time for DLA.

 

Unfortunately that doesn't change it.

[mrsg-UK]

so there is no legal arugument out of this then?

[RaeUK]

I can understand your frustration, mrsg, but if that's the way things are then then ce la vie. That said, is there any way you can do this and drag something positive from it? If I had to work in a charity shop I'd be thinking 'well, every major charity will have an IT Department somewhere, maybe I can use this placement to find out'. And if I was able to identify a contact then it'd be on my own spin. I'd be telling them I admired their charity so much I insisted my placement had to be with them etc etc. Look for the opportunity... [even if it's a long shot!]

Good luck.

Rae.

[ErikaPNP]

so there is no legal arugument out of this then?

 

What legal argument did you intend on using?

[antone]

so there is no legal arugument out of this then?

 

No, there is no legal argument - nothing illegal is taking place.

 

I'm sympathetic to your situation, but sadly the only way to change this is to change the law. The DWP doesn't make that law, it only implements it as directed by the politicians.

[mrsg-UK]

thats what i'm asking.

 

surely there must be something within the european convention on human rights to stop this? We must have some rights.

 

The job centre should not be able to send people on training courses that will not benefit them.

[ErikaPNP]

SCHEDULE 1 The Articles

 

Part I The Convention

 

Rights and Freedoms

 

Article 2 Right to life

 

1 Everyone’s right to life shall be protected by law. No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law.

2 Deprivation of life shall not be regarded as inflicted in contravention of this Article when it results from the use of force which is no more than absolutely necessary:

(a) in defence of any person from unlawful violence;

(b) in order to effect a lawful arrest or to prevent the escape of a person lawfully detained;

© in action lawfully taken for the purpose of quelling a riot or insurrection.

Article 3 Prohibition of torture

 

No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 4 Prohibition of slavery and forced labour

 

1 No one shall be held in slavery or servitude.

2 No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour.

3 For the purpose of this Article the term “forced or compulsory labour” shall not include:

(a) any work required to be done in the ordinary course of detention imposed according to the provisions of Article 5 of this Convention or during conditional release from such detention;

(b) any service of a military character or, in case of conscientious objectors in countries where they are recognised, service exacted instead of compulsory military service;

© any service exacted in case of an emergency or calamity threatening the life or well-being of the community;

(d) any work or service which forms part of normal civic obligations.

Article 5 Right to liberty and security

 

1 Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person. No one shall be deprived of his liberty save in the following cases and in accordance with a procedure prescribed by law:

(a) the lawful detention of a person after conviction by a competent court;

(b) the lawful arrest or detention of a person for non-compliance with the lawful order of a court or in order to secure the fulfilment of any obligation prescribed by law;

© the lawful arrest or detention of a person effected for the purpose of bringing him before the competent legal authority on reasonable suspicion of having committed an offence or when it is reasonably considered necessary to prevent his committing an offence or fleeing after having done so;

(d) the detention of a minor by lawful order for the purpose of educational supervision or his lawful detention for the purpose of bringing him before the competent legal authority;

(e) the lawful detention of persons for the prevention of the spreading of infectious diseases, of persons of unsound mind, alcoholics or drug addicts or vagrants;

(f) the lawful arrest or detention of a person to prevent his effecting an unauthorised entry into the country or of a person against whom action is being taken with a view to deportation or extradition.

2 Everyone who is arrested shall be informed promptly, in a language which he understands, of the reasons for his arrest and of any charge against him.

3 Everyone arrested or detained in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 1© of this Article shall be brought promptly before a judge or other officer authorised by law to exercise judicial power and shall be entitled to trial within a reasonable time or to release pending trial. Release may be conditioned by guarantees to appear for trial.

4 Everyone who is deprived of his liberty by arrest or detention shall be entitled to take proceedings by which the lawfulness of his detention shall be decided speedily by a court and his release ordered if the detention is not lawful.

5 Everyone who has been the victim of arrest or detention in contravention of the provisions of this Article shall have an enforceable right to compensation.

Article 6 Right to a fair trial

 

1 In the determination of his civil rights and obligations or of any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law. Judgment shall be pronounced publicly but the press and public may be excluded from all or part of the trial in the interest of morals, public order or national security in a democratic society, where the interests of juveniles or the protection of the private life of the parties so require, or to the extent strictly necessary in the opinion of the court in special circumstances where publicity would prejudice the interests of justice.

2 Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.

3 Everyone charged with a criminal offence has the following minimum rights:

(a) to be informed promptly, in a language which he understands and in detail, of the nature and cause of the accusation against him;

(b) to have adequate time and facilities for the preparation of his defence;

© to defend himself in person or through legal assistance of his own choosing or, if he has not sufficient means to pay for legal assistance, to be given it free when the interests of justice so require;

(d) to examine or have examined witnesses against him and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against him;

(e) to have the free assistance of an interpreter if he cannot understand or speak the language used in court.

Article 7 No punishment without law

 

1 No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.

2 This Article shall not prejudice the trial and punishment of any person for any act or omission which, at the time when it was committed, was criminal according to the general principles of law recognised by civilised nations.

Article 8 Right to respect for private and family life

 

1 Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

2 There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

Article 9 Freedom of thought, conscience and religion

 

1 Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

2 Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

Article 10 Freedom of expression

 

1 Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2 The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

Article 11 Freedom of assembly and association

 

1 Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

2 No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. This Article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police or of the administration of the State.

Article 12 Right to marry

 

Men and women of marriageable age have the right to marry and to found a family, according to the national laws governing the exercise of this right.

Article 14 Prohibition of discrimination

 

The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status.

Article 16 Restrictions on political activity of aliens

 

Nothing in Articles 10, 11 and 14 shall be regarded as preventing the High Contracting Parties from imposing restrictions on the political activity of aliens.

Article 17 Prohibition of abuse of rights

 

Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein or at their limitation to a greater extent than is provided for in the Convention.

Article 18 Limitation on use of restrictions on rights

 

The restrictions permitted under this Convention to the said rights and freedoms shall not be applied for any purpose other than those for which they have been prescribed.

Part II The First Protocol

 

Article 1 Protection of property

 

Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.

The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair the right of a State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary to control the use of property in accordance with the general interest or to secure the payment of taxes or other contributions or penalties.

Article 2 Right to education

 

No person shall be denied the right to education. In the exercise of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and to teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions.

Article 3 Right to free elections

 

The High Contracting Parties undertake to hold free elections at reasonable intervals by secret ballot, under conditions which will ensure the free expression of the opinion of the people in the choice of the legislature.

 

Which one do you feel would apply here?

[mrsg-UK]

Article 4 Prohibition of slavery and forced labour

2 No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour.

 

 

working in a charity shop

Edited December 3, 2009 by mrsg-UK

[ErikaPNP]

That would be exempt under "civic obligation", the "civic obligation" concerned would be the obligation to adhere to the conditions of your benefit claim.

 

Article 4 Prohibition of slavery and forced labour

 

1 No one shall be held in slavery or servitude.

2 No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour.

3 For the purpose of this Article the term “forced or compulsory labour” shall not include:

(a) any work required to be done in the ordinary course of detention imposed according to the provisions of Article 5 of this Convention or during conditional release from such detention;

(b) any service of a military character or, in case of conscientious objectors in countries where they are recognised, service exacted instead of compulsory military service;

© any service exacted in case of an emergency or calamity threatening the life or well-being of the community;

(d) any work or service which forms part of normal civic obligations.

[antone]

Article 4 Prohibition of slavery and forced labour

2 No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour.

 

 

working in a charity shop

 

You are not being forced to perform labour. You are entirely free to decline the benefit, and no-one will then attempt to force you to work anywhere.

 

My own personal view is quite close to yours, actually. I believe that if a job is worth doing, someone should be paid at least NMW to do it, or at least should be an uncoerced volunteer. Using the unemployed as a cheap labour force is morally reprehensible. But still, it's quite legal, since you don't have to claim benefits.

[coupes]

I think someone has nicked my thread title..? Just kidding i dont mind. I am in the same situation as the original poster.

 

As far as im aware it used to be that people aged 25 or older had up to 18 months before they were required to join new deal and it lasted a maximum of 26 weeks. Now with FND its been changed to after 12 months and the programme lasts for 12 months aswell.

 

The only way i think you may be able to avoid it is if you can convince the jobcentre that you already have the skills and qualifications to apply for work. But even then i think they are instructed to follow their rules and ignore the clients previous education. So its unlikely you will be able to persuade them.

 

It should be optional whether someone wishes to join a course like this. Otherwise it seems that they are just trying to force people off claiming benefits by putting them in an awkward and unhelpful environment. But remember its not the jobcentres fault, the policies come from higher up.