what should I do now - if anything

[Dotty50]

Heidi Bo born 4.45 am weighing 4 pounds doing great x

 

Many congratulations Laura, such a pretty name too! x

 

Just goes to show Friday 13th is lucky for some!

[Laura Cooke]

Thanks Flooz & Dotty been to see her she`s a tiny bundle of much needed joy my sister in hospital overwhelmed my daughter was born on Good Friday and her baby on bad Friday but as you say it turned out to be good as well she is ecstatic x

[Laura Cooke]

Heidi took ill and was transferred to a specialist hospital then transferred again today to yet a nother hospital her bowels had not formed she has had a operation today to her bowels 2 days old and has a colostemy bag on daughter been in pieces they say Heidi is through the worst isn`t life cruel at times

[flooz]

Laura, that must be so distressing for you all. It really does seem sometimes that all of life's problems come at the same time.

 

I will keep you all in my thoughts.

x

[Dotty50]

Ditto! XXXX

[diddydicky]

yes it is and i wish you all the best- however one thing it DOES do is put things into perspective- as to what it important and what is not!

[chelsealove]

Okay, I think I might have something useful to add to this thread. I've got more or less the same agreement / not agreement with Capital One. They pestered me, then used PW Moody to sue [without the documents], and now have instructed Eversheds to act on the matter post AQ. The debt is about 8k.

 

The agreement is almost identical to floorz. It states clearly that it's an application, like the one in this thread, and the references on the front refer to numbers in the T and C that aren't present on the back. I'll post it at a later date.

 

The difference to the normal threads is that I'm a solicitor specialising in civil litigation and I've been involved with the Courts all my life. I have access to barristers, telephone conferencing and such like. I've put in a long and detailed Defence which remains unanswered. Eversheds say that they're going to put in replies, but they will need the permission of the Court to do so, as it's post AQs. They have also asked for the Court to make a discretionary judgment under CPR 3.4 against me on the basis that the papers they have now submitted are complete. This suggests that they are not terribly confident, as the normal course of action would be an application for summary judgment.

 

I will keep the caggers up to date. If it goes to trial, I will forward you full details of what the judge says on the "application - style" agreement, although as I understand it, there is already a clear judgment at DJ level against a similar Barclays agreement. If successful, I will be happy to provide you copies of all the pleadings and I would also be happy to defend anyone who has such an agreement if their debt is over 5k. I won't post the pleadings now, as if the defence is unsuccessful, I don't want to mislead anyone. If successful, I will probably also look to publicise the verdict as widely as I can so that people with these kind of agreements know what's what.

 

If unsuccessful, I will still forward the details of the verdict, but I will obviously have a sad face rather than a happy face.

 

I'm not a CCA expert, but I do have friends who are, so this will be interesting. This was just another debt to me, but Cap One have decided to make it personal. I will be looking for my own costs of about 3k - 4k. I have defeated Eversheds on a number of occasions on personal injury claims, so it'll be fun battling them again.

 

Not aiming to hijack this thread by the way, but the agreements are SO similar that I thought it would be helpful.

[diddydicky]

look forward to the next installment

[Laura Cooke]

It is with deep regret that after 10 weeks in hospital my dear 49 year old sister passed away at 7.35 am this morning with her family by her side sadly she has left behind 3 orphaned boys thanks for the kind words recently x

[Dotty50]

Oh Laura,

 

I am so sorry to hear this sad news, I can't begin to imagine how you are feeling today, but I am sure you will find the strength to help those that she has left behind, from everything you have had thrown at you in life, it seems so cruel.

 

I do hope little Heidi Bo will ease your heartache and that she makes a good recovery.

 

My thoughts are with you at this very sad time.

[Laura Cooke]

Thanks Dotty your kind words mean so much x

[flooz]

Laura - I've just come on to the thread with an update, and was so saddened to hear your news. My heart goes out to you. I can only echo what Dotty has already said. Be strong my friend. x

[flooz]

Another 'procrastinating' letter received today.

 

 

quote...

 

Thank you for writing back to me about your request for a copy of your executed agreement and statement of account under Section 78 (S78) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA). (My last letter was nothing of the sort)

 

We have previously provided you with a copy of your current terms and conditions and a reconstituted copy of your original agreement; together with a scanned copy of the signature page of your original agreement. You were also provided with a statement of your account. Therefore, we have fully required with the requirements of s78 of the Consumer Credit Act. (I only asked for clarification that the printed terms and conditions they sent to me were the original T&C's)

 

As we have complied with our obligations under S78, we will not be entering into any further correspondence regarding the provision of copy agreements. Your agreement is enforeceable and we will continue to treat it as such. (So they keep saying, I've also suggested that I await service of court papers)

Your account balance remains fully due and owing and we will continue to request payment. It is important that you maintain payments to your account in accordance with the terms of your agreement. Failure to do this may result in negative information being recorded on your credit file, which may affect your ability to gain credit in the future. We will strong defend any claim you bring in relation to your agreement. (I've never intimated making any claim against them)

 

I have noticed that your address is different to the one we have on your system, please could you send proof of your new address so we can update your details on our system. (address has been the same for the past 3 years)

 

As I mentioned in my previous letter, you now have the option of contacting the Financial Ombudsman. Although we have provided you with their contact details, it is our understanding that the Financial Ombudsman Service may choose to not consider your case as issues regarding the enforceability of a consumer credit agreement would be better considered by a court. I must now inform you that any further contact we receive from you on this subject will be acknowledged but we will not enter into any further correspondence. (How will they acknowledge without corresponding?)

 

(Typical call charge, blah blah)

 

YS

Julie Lester-Lee

Executive office.

 

.end quote...

 

Never had this name on the bottom before.

 

I can't see the letter warrants a response, but they are still failing to confirm or deny that the printed T&C's they sent me are the original T&C's. I'm not sure how this will appear in the event they decide to take Court action. I was certainly of the understanding that what they sent were supposedly the original T&C's, but they are different to what is appearing on the reconstituted agreement.

 

Any advice on what my next course of action should be? I don't like not responding at all, but what's the point when they obviously don't even read the letters correctly, and send out another 'standard' response? Or perhaps I should respond simply with that point - again?

[Laura Cooke]

Thanks flooz kind words mean more than ever at moment x

[flooz]

Have prepared the following (short) response. Any comments please?

 

quote..

 

Thank you for your letter of 16th August.

It is noted that Capital One have again failed to answer a simple question regarding the original terms and conditions. Given the ‘standard response’ letters I am receiving, it appears that my letters are not even being read properly.

Hence, it is my belief that despite my making every effort to find a resolution to this issue, Capital One is being deliberately obstructive. This will, of course, be brought to the Court’s attention should it prove necessary.

Unless Capital One is prepared to actually answer my reasonable question, I see no reason in corresponding further.

Yours faithfully

 

..end quote

[Dotty50]

That looks fine to me Flooz, the shorter, the better so that they do not get too confused about what they are replying to.

 

I am convinced that these companies have a library of templated paragraphs and just click on them to produce a reply, hence some totally irrelevent sentences/statements.

 

So, if they have issued a final response and you now do the same, what happens next, I wonder!

[diddydicky]

Dear Sirs

 

I refer to your letter of XXXXXXXXXXXxx

 

i note that you have provided a copy of the terms and conditions of the alleged agreement

 

I require you to confirm if these are the original terms and conditions, or if they are terms and conditons that have been varied or ammended from those embodied in the original agreement

 

If the terms and conditions that you have provided are as varied or amended- then your obligations under s77/9 are to also supply a copy of the original enabling terms and conditions and you remain in default of your s77/9 obligations until such time as you do so

 

Kindly confirm by return of post if what you have provided are, or are not the orignal terms and conditons of the agreement

 

As you have precious failed to respond to this question- I enclose a SAE for your convenience.

 

In the absence of a response i will make the assumption that you have failed to fulfil your s77/9 obligations and this letter will be produced in any future proceedings

 

 

Y F

 

(sent recorded)

[flooz]

Thanks DD. I have previously sent something very similar, back in June, and it is what they are refusing to confirm. Should I still give them this one last chance to answer me?

[diddydicky]

Thanks DD. I have previously sent something very similar, back in June, and it is what they are refusing to confirm. Should I still give them this one last chance to answer me?

 

yes i would (recorded) so that you have evidence of their intransigence to put before a court- if for no other reason than even if you then lost a case it will have a major impact on any costs applications on their part-

[flooz]

OK. Thanks DD, will do so tomorrow.

[flooz]

So, here we are again.....

 

Reply to latest letter received today, which goes as follows:-

 

quote....

Thank you for writing back to me about your request for a copy of your executed agreement and statement of account under section 78 (S78) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA).

 

The documentation we provided to you on the 6 October 2009 was a copy of your current agreement.

 

We have also previously provided you with a reconstituted copy of your original agreement on 30 November 2009; together with a scanned copy of the signature page of your original agreement. You were also provided with a statement of your account. Therefore, we have fully complied with the requirements of s78 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

As we have complied with our obligations under S78, we will not be entering into any further correspondence regarding the provision of copy agreements. Your agreement is enforceable and we will continue to treat it as such.

 

Your account status remains defaulted and the balance currently due and payable is £.....

 

Your account balance remains fully due and owing and we will continue to request payment. It is important blah blah blah (all the usual stuff )

 

...end quote

 

Having gone through the paperwork I have, I realise I have made a mistake. What they provided to me on 6th Oct 2009, was the 'leaflet' type of T&C's, which I believe does constitute the current agreement. The printed T&C's, which I have been requesting that they confirm are the original T&C's, were in fact provided on 30th November, together with a scanned copy of the signature page. That letter (30th Nov) states "I am enclosing a true copy of the original e xecuted agreement, comprising the scanned image of the signature page of the executed agreement together with the terms and conditions".

 

As far as I can see, it is quite clear that they are saying that the printed T&C's sent to me on 30th November are the originals.

 

BUT, these do not correspond with the T&C's that are on the back of the reconstituted agreement provided to me under my SAR.

 

I think I may have inadvertently confused the issue, but the question is - what now?

 

I'll admit to be totally confused by the whole thing; their repeated statements of having complied with s78 and my having a fully enforceable agreement are not worth my arguing about any more.

 

I believe they have made a faux pas (sp?), but until/unless they admit that, they are not going to negotiate with me.

 

I haven't a clue what to do now for the best.

 

ps - I don't like this new CAG format - all the posts are really skinny and difficult to read.

[Dotty50]

Hi Flooz,

 

If you go to the top of the thread, you should see two chevrons on the right hand side, if you click on these it will put the thread into the normal format to view like before. (hopefully)

 

It is difficult to know what to do, they are never going to admit to having an unenforceable agreement, so I guess you either sit it out and see what happens next or just write with an offer of payment that you can afford, request that they stop adding charges (although if defaulted, they may not be adding anything on now?) then just pay.

 

If it ever went to court, you have proof of trying to sort the situation out reasonably with them.

[flooz]

Hi Dotty.

 

Please help me - I'm going mad. I can't find anything at the top of the thread that look like chevrons. I absolutely hate this view, half the shortcuts are on top of each other, it took me ages to sign in because of it. Can you tell me where exactly I should find these chevrons??

[Dotty50]

Screen print.doc

 

Can you see from this?

 

The box headed Consumer Forums Menu, top right and the arrows/chevrons on the side of this.

 

The symptoms you describe I get at work on I/E but at home I use google chrome on my laptop and don't get the same problems.

[flooz]

Don't have that on my screen Dotty