Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • A full-scale strike at the firm could have an impact on the global supply chains of electronics.View the full article
    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Debenhams/Santander Cards-Viking Collection Services LTD


Nicola85
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5088 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Ignore Viking and them telling you they want all or nothing, that is an unlawful request, and they will never admit to saying that in front of a judge!

 

If all you can manage to pay them, is the token payment of £1 a month, then do that, until such time that you are able to post up a clearer image of the agreement they sent you.

 

All you need is their bank details and you can set up a standing order, DO NOT set up a Direct Debit with them under any circumstances.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Images are just the front of the agreement. The right to cancel box is contained within the terms and conditions which were sent seperate from the agreement. The CAA I was sent was an A4 piece of paper with a 4x5 inch copy of the agreement. The back of the A4 piece of paper was blank and the terms and conditions for it were sent out seperate so I have no idea if they are the right ones for this agreement.

 

Is it still enforceable without the pescribed terms i.e repayments? Or are they allowed to put them in the terms and conditions?

 

I have been sent loads of documents by the DCA. They just say the usual like this debt isint going to go away so pay us the money you owe us and if I don't they will take me to court etc.

Edited by Nicola85
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mean to be a pain but I would really like to move on with this. Is there someone who can tell me If my agreement is legally enforceable in court? It would really help so I can get started on the best course of action.

 

The agreement I recieved was a Microfiche.

 

The terms and conditions sent seperate from the agreement are current and not those used when I signed the agreement.

 

The 'right to cancel' box and the repayments are contained within the terms and conditions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

On the face of things, what they have produced could be seen as enforceable. However if it went to court you could bring them to 'Strict Proof' where they would have to produce the original agreement... not a microfilche copy.

 

If the T&Cs they have supplied do not pertain to the CCA at its inception then it makes the CCA unenforceable. Send Viking this & see what their response is;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

Link to post
Share on other sites

I recieved a letter on Monday from Viking stating that it was more than likely that since they can't get payment from me they would be passing back my account back to Santander cards who will probably take legal action. Is there anything I should do? Should I start to worry yet?

Link to post
Share on other sites

No nothing at all to worry about, wait until the OC starts sending you correspondence then take it from there.

 

What they are saying, when you read between the lines, is that they have no evidence to legally extort money from you, so will off load this lemon back to the idiots that sold it...

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Bazooka Boo. Is this what happens with most peoples debts? Debt Collector buy the debt from Original Creditor then the Debt Collector finds that they have no legal evidence to take money from people so they sell it back to the Original Creditor? How often does the Original Creditor persue legal action? Just thinking that if a Debt Collector has not got enough evidence then it's not very likley that the Original Creditor will have any more.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How often does the Original Creditor pursue legal action? Just thinking that if a Debt Collector has not got enough evidence then it's not very likely that the Original Creditor will have any more.

 

What normally happens is the the OC will use their own in-house collection agency first, for instance if you ran up a debt with the Halifax:D then you can expect to get letters from Blair Oliver & Scott, which is an acronym for Bank Of Scotland. Hence Halifax using their own in-house DCA.

 

Then to off load these 'Bad' debts, they will sell them in 'bulk' to other DCA's for a knock down price, and has been reported, for as little as 6p in the pound!

This then frees up the OC from having this Bad debt around their necks, and the rest of the money they are still owed is paid for by their insurance, so they don't lose anything.

 

The DCA who has bought your £1000 debt for say £160 will tell you that you owe them £1000, but are able to offer you a once in a lifetime offer to pay the debt off and can reduce that amount to say £800, this is how these companies make their profits and a why they are able to remain in business.

 

So rest assured that asking for the CCA, and then being told by that DCA that they have sent your file back to the OC is clarification that they bought your debt in bulk and have not been given the full file on your account.

 

And if they 'close' their files, it is safe to say that there is no such agreement and it will go quiet for a while, until such time as the OC flogs it on again to another DCA.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Today I recieved court papers. I'm not quite sure what to do. I know that I have to either deny or accept that I owe the debt. The problem I have is that YES I do owe the debt but I have no money in which to pay it with. If I accept that I owe the debt then I'll recieve a CCJ and I have no money to pay the CCJ. If I deny the debt then it's more than likely they can prove I owe them money and I'll still end up with a CCJ. I was never trying to get out of paying my debt. I just hit a bad financial patch and then things sarted to go down hill from there. I've tried talking to theese people and come to some sort of a payment arrangement but I'm not getting anywhere. Is there anyone who can give me some advice? Thanks so much. Nicola.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you kept all correspondence relating to your payment proposals?

 

If you have stated to them that you will pay X amount per month/week and they have refused then, they will not have a leg to stand on in court, the judge will simply tell them that all they will get from now on is the amount you stated that you could afford, and if thats £1 a week, then tough on them.

 

Is it an SD you have received? If so you have 14 days in which to acknowledge it, and you can even do it online, so are able to take it right up to the 11th hour.

 

It's a shame you can't post it up for Cerbs to have a look at, does it refer to the document as a Statutory Demand?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I can tell, it's a Claim form and a response pack. I'm suppost to fill in one of the two forms. One is to deny the other to accept. From what I can tell they are real papers they have been stamped by the court and it has a reference number. It's not a statutory demand.

 

What I really would like to ask is can I be issued with a CCJ if I don't have a wage and I don't owne a home or car?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I'll just fill in the form and say I accept the debt. I can't fill in the one to deny as I have no defence as Yes I do owe the debt. So I'll just fill it in and tell them I have no wages and I don't have any outgoings and see what happens from there as they are never going to get any money out of me I have none and I doubt I'll have any for the forseable future. They can't take what I have not got.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just read through your thread and can't see any reply re default notice? Have you had one? Also, an assignment? Does it refer to these docs in the court claim? If so, you need to see them.

I'm going through a similar case. I sent a CPR request to the solicitors who came back with ...'don't have in their possession, are in process of retrieving...etc'. Then go on to give me extra time...etc!!! Do NOT fall for this. They try to get a CCJ by default.

 

Please try to find the strength to defend yourself. You've nothing to lose. Ask to see all docs they refer to now and file an embarrassed defence in the meantime. Online is very straightforward. Then it's up to them to prove they have a legitimate claim.

Good luck!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, it might be wise to send them a CPR request, I understand that you admit you owe this money but I would still defend, as you really have nothing to lose, I owe circa 55K and even though I do know I owe that money, I will defend myself at every turn.

 

If you need expert help quickly, then you can always click on the Red triangle to get the site teams attention and help.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...