Bailiff refusing to accept an amount

[nameloc]

Bailiffs turned up at my place this morning regarding my partners parking fines. I got the parking fines but obviously its in my partners name. They turned up this morning with a truck to take the car away she offered to pay them £250 to which they claimed "wouldnt pay a quarter of the bill" and refused, in the end she had to take money out of her birthday cards to make it up to £500.

 

Are they allowed to refuse that amount and still take the car away, I dont know who the bailiffs are at this moment but I thought they had to be at least willing to take an amount which to be fair wasnt a stupidly low amount.

[nameloc]

Ok so my partner sent through the paperwork. It was collect services and the breakdown of fees are as follows

 

4 x PCNs - £320

Court Fee -£20

Bailiff Charges - £939.37

Total - 1279.37

 

Now surely thats illegal what the are charging, it is completely extortionate!!

[Bodymelt]

Hi nameloc, who are the bailiffs

[letsmakeamark]

did your partner know of these or did he act ?

[nameloc]

The company are "Collect Services". The first she knew of them was when the bailiff letter arrived a few weeks ago but then they came back around this morning. I called after they visited last time but never got a response or a call back

[hallowitch]

not great with parking tickets(read posts by tomtubby she is the expert on here ) but your bailiffs fees are extortionate

do you have the name of the bailiff he must be certificated to the company he is collecting for or self employed (no company name)

www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/CertificatedBailiffs

this list is not 100% and if he doesn't appear on it

phone Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355

 

you must write to collect services and ask for a screenshot of your account this should give you a breakdown of the bailiffs fees

 

you want

the reason for the fee the time and date the fee was added to your account and the name of the bailiff who added the fee

 

 

a bailiff collecting 4 pcn at the same time can only charge 1 set of fees

multiple charges are not allowed

you must also send a letter of complaint to your council

 

any letters sent to Collect Services send copy to the council

any letters sent to the council copy to collect Services

send all letters recorded delivery (keep receipt)

[nameloc]

I will do that thanks. The fella is Wayne Doyle who is on the list on that link.

[tomtubby]

Ok so my partner sent through the paperwork. It was collect services and the breakdown of fees are as follows

 

4 x PCNs - £320

Court Fee -£20

Bailiff Charges - £939.37

Total - 1279.37

 

Now surely thats illegal what the are charging, it is completely extortionate!!

 

These fee are WRONG.

 

A bailiff enforcine MORE than one PCN ar any one time CANNOT apply multipule charges. A bailiff fee of £939.37 is clearly calculated as a fee for EACH PCN.

 

You have said that your partner was unaware of these PCN's until receiving a bailiff letter.

 

That normally means that the bailiff has "cleansed the warrant" to obtain a new address. This applies where a person has moved addresses since the PCN was issued.

 

If this is the case, then it is a simple matter of filing Out of Time Declaration with the Traffic Enforcement Centre. Your partner will need to telephone TEC on 08457 045 007 . The phone lines ar BUSY !! She will need the PCN numbers and she needs to ask them to confirm the date of the warrants and the address of the warrants.

 

Please post back once she has made this call.

 

PS: By filing an Out of Time Declaration all bailiff enforcement, by law..... MUST CEASE!!

[nameloc]

hiya, thanks for the information, here is what they said

 

#1 - 21/01/09

#2 - 01/07/09

#3 - 01/07/09

#4 - 07/09/09

 

The address was the same throughout which was an address we moved out of over 2 years ago.

 

What happens with the £500 she was forced to pay out today?

[Guest Happy Contrails]

These fee are WRONG!

 

Very wrong indeed.

 

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid parking tickets is Schedule 1 et-al of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993. If you have been overcharged then you have a right to reclaim them. Broadly speaking the law provides:

 

Letter Fee £11.20. If letter arrives after first visit is made then its £0.00

Levying Distress up to £100 (excluding bailiffs fees but including court fees) - £28

More than £100 - 28% for the first £200 then 5.5% on everything over £200.

If no levy is made then bailiffs can charge fees for a maximum of three visits.

Multiple fees cannot be charged for simultaenous unpaid ticket collections.

 

The law does not provide for a bailiff to charge a fee to fix or remove a wheelclamp to a car or sending a tow truck or a van to an address. The law provides "reasonable costs" for attending an address with a view to transporting goods in a van, if no goods are transported in the van then the van fee is £0.00. Culligan -v- Marston Group Ltd et-al, no. 8CL51015 the court ruled that because the Bailiff produced no breakdown of his charges, he is unable to show that it is reasonable costs. Therefore, van fees, tow truck fees and attending to remove fees = £0.00. More

 

This is the procedure to clear up parking ticket fee irregularities.

 

The Bailiff Company

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Your fees.

 

I write following visits by your bailiff however there appears to an irregularity with your fees and I am writing to ask you to provide me the following within seven (7) days:

 

1) The name of the court that issued the certificate for the bailiff in charge.

 

2) Written itemised breakdown of a) your fees, and b) the original debt.

 

3) The name and address of the organisation that instructed you

 

4) a) Truthfully confirm in writing your fees are lawful and comply with legislation or, b) refund me the unlawful fees plus reasonable compensation for being cheated by your bailiff with his fees by midday the seventh day from the date of this letter.

 

A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an arrestable offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss therefore, if no satisfactory refund is made to me by 12.00 midday seven (7) days from the date of this letter I will automatically file a complaint to police under the 2006 Fraud Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. If you have charged VAT on unlawful fees then you may be reported for VAT fraud and your documents will be given in evidence.

 

Case law requires I recover unlawful bailiffs fees from your client that instructed you. If you fail to make the required refund within seven days I will automatically proceed by filing the claim at court.

 

This is a letter before action and is not a request to access any personal data about me in the meaning of the Data Protection Act 1998. It is delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

Copied to: The Mayor and Burgesses of [NAME OF COUNCIL]

 

 

Send a copy of the letter to the council along with a copy of the bailiff’s fee document.

 

Head of Revenue

Borough Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Parking ticket [CAR REQUSTRATION/PCN] and your bailiffs fees

 

Please find a copy of a letter before action that has been delivered by even post to your contractor who is claiming you have instructed to act.

 

You contractor is cheating with his fees and it is my intention to reclaim them by filing proceedings in the small claims track if they are not refunded in full within seven days.

 

As the council is liable for its agents it is my intention to name the council as the principle defendant, however, Court rules require me to give the council reasonable opportunity to settle the claim beforehand.

 

If you wish to settle the claim, please pay me the sum described in the enclosed letter at the above address within seven days from the date of this letter.

 

You may wish to launch an investigation or make your own enquiries; this does not delay the proceedings being filed at Court, and to protect other taxpayers from being defrauded in this way, the case will pass to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

These documents are delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests they are handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

 

Encs:

1 Copy of letter to bailiff

2. Copy of bailiff document showing his fees.

 

If you don't get a refund in seven days or the bailiffs fob you off with excuses, download and complete a Form N1 from the HMCS website. The Defendants are addressed as:

 

THE MAYOR AND BURGESSES OF [NAME OF COUNCIL] 1st DEFENDANT

 

AND

 

[NAME OF BAILIFF COMPANY] 2nd DEFENDANT

 

Brief Details of the Claim - enter - Reclaiming unlawful bailiff's fees.

 

Particulars of claim:

 

I received a bailiff acting for the defendant collecting an unpaid parking ticket. The bailiff dishonestly charged me [£AMOUNT] bailiffs fees contrary to the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993 which prescribes £28 and reasonable costs for transporting a debtors goods in a van. The bailiff did not move any goods in a van and I did not sign any documents for the bailiff. I have been defrauded by the bailiff who is cheating with his fees and I asked for a refund but it was the bailiff’s choice to keep the money. On 20 April 2007, Lord Lucas in the House of Lords asked HM Government (inter-alia) "whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter"? Baroness Scotland of Asthal, The Minister of State, Home Office replied: (inter-alia) "A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006". Reasonable costs have been defined by District Judge Advent on the 9th & 24th September 2008 presiding over Case No 8CL51015 Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). The court ruled that “because the Bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable". I claim i) the sum of [£AMOUNT], ii) Interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from the date the money became due at the daily rate of 0.00022%, iii) reasonable costs the court thinks fit for being defrauded by the defendant iv) Reasonable costs the court thinks fit for Discovery of Information and compiling this case for court, v) costs allowed by the court at the prescribed rate.

 

Note: The law says the Bailiff can charge a letter fee £11.20, unless the bailiff gives you a certificate of posting this fee can be disregarded.

 

If you are on a low income then complete an EX160 fee remission form.

 

File the Form N1 at you local county court. The claim will be defended (with the same old bailiff's ramblings) and the court will send you an allocation questionnaire. Keep all documents and receipts given to you by the bailiff and await the hearing date. Do not be bullied by bailiffs or the council's barrister to get you to drop the claim. You want ALL your money back plus your costs and interest in CLEARED FUNDS. Go before the Judge and ask for it. When the judge has awarded your judgment, always ask the judge for your "costs of today at the prescribed amount", he'll award you an extra 60-quid on top of your costs. Remember, you are a litigant-in-person and court rules say the judge must advocate for you in court.

 

When a bailiff defrauds you with his fees he commits an arrestable offence.

 

The Chief Constable

Name of Police Authority

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Reporting a crime committed under the Fraud Act 2006

 

I enclose a document given to me by a man saying he is a bailiff firm [and threatened to commit breaking and entering and take property unless I pay him £AMOUNT]. He charged fees £AMOUNT when the law prescribes a fee of £28.

 

I appreciate the police have a propensity to dismiss bailiff crime to be a civil matter, but the official legal position is the bailiff commits an arrestable offence under the 2006 Fraud Act. Lord Lucas at the House of Lords on 20 April 2007 when he asked HM Government whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter. The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal) replied with, inter-alia (quote) A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 (unquote).

 

Section 1 means by which this offence can be committed is set out in Section 2, on fraud by false representation. This section applies where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss. It is also possible that, where a bailiff repeatedly charges for work that has not been done, this conduct will amount to fraudulent trading either under Section 9 of the 2006 Act or under the provisions on fraudulent trading in company legislation.

 

The law can provide reasonable costs in respect of bailiffs transporting goods in a van (attending to remove fee) however no goods have been levied and no document has been signed by me. District Judge Advent on the 9th & 24th September 2008 presiding over Case 8CL51015 Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). The court ruled that (quote) because the bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable (unquote).

 

Any offence committed under the 2006 Fraud Act is an arrestable offence under Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Please assign a crime reference number and I request the crime is investigated professionally and objectively and I am happy to help you in your enquiries and stand as a prosecution witness at trial.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

Enc: copy of bailiff document giving contact details

 

If the police fob you off with excuses, write down the name and rank of the police officer and contact the IPCC and your MP with a written complaint of 'Perverting the Course of Justice'. It is an offence under Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 to conceal a crime under false pretences.

[nameloc]

Ok so let me understand this.

 

The bailiffs can only charge 28% for the first £200 and the 5.5% afterwards - or - their charges for each visit?

 

And

 

That they wouldnt have taken the car this morning as they would have needed to give reasonable notice to repay before taking it.

 

Turns out that there wasnt even a tow truck, he told her "the truck had to go and get a different connector because it wouldnt fit her wheels!!!"

[Guest Happy Contrails]

The law doesnt say the charges are on a per-visit basis.

 

If your car is leased on on HP, the bailiff cant take it. Theres a procedure to recover a finance car.

[nameloc]

There is finance on the car but I dont beleive its HP as its 3 years into the 4 year contract

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Is the finance secured on the car? if so, the bailiffs goose is cooked.

[nameloc]

thanks guys will let you know

[nameloc]

Ok here is an update, basically, the letter got delayed in the post so we were told to email it to them. Since the agreed date to pay the remaining amount on the 25th has passed and he stated that he put a levy to remove the vehicle when he turned up originally that as soon as the car is spotted, they can take it. So the vehicle "belongs to them" at the moment.

 

I had a long conversation with him and he was basically saying whilst I am waiting for the information to be emailed to me, the vehicle can be taken at any time as the levy was put on there. Is that right?

 

Is there some sort of form that they can fill out to take the car if it is under finance cos I was unsure of telling him the truth about that so he doesnt get a head start

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Herewith...

 

 

The Omnipotent Bailiff Co, Plc

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME]: Notice of Ownership

 

I write to you understanding you or your firm of bailiffs has seized, or is intending to seize a vehicle [MAKE & MODEL AND REGISTRATION] at the above address as collateral for an alleged debt.

 

I confirm that I am the registered keeper of the vehicle but it is the property of the finance company and remains so until the final payment has been made. If you wish to make your own enquiries, please contact the DVLA. Please be advised the law does not provide for you to charge me fees for making your own enquiries.

 

You are now unable to consider the vehicle to be prima facie my property. You cannot seek to embezzle any property while knowing or believing it to belong to a finance company as this commits an offence.

 

Please be advised that any attempt to subvert or rebuke this notice will result in a Form 4 complaint being automatically filed at the certificating court along with an application for costs without contacting you further. Both you as a firm and your bailiff may also be criminally liable for committing offences under Section 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 and any criminal element to this matter will be passed to the police.

 

This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it to be served upon you by the ordinary course of post in the meaning of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 and therefore it is your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

YOUR NAME

[pink_eeyore]

did he leave paperwork detailing the levy on your vehicle ?

[nameloc]

Hi, no just the usual receipt and paperwork showing the amounts and charges, no specific levy paperwork, should he have done so?

[hallowitch]

yes he should have left you a Notice of seizure of goods and inventory

 

however you wont be the first person to get one shoved through your letter box after telling the bailiff that there was no notice left

so be very careful

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

[nameloc]

haha, no inventory but funnily he did leave through the door a notice of seizure of goods a couple of days ago, does it count if we havent been given it directly?

[hallowitch]

so notice of seizure of goods hasn't got your car listed on it

[Guest Happy Contrails]

no specific levy paperwork, should he have done so?

 

Yes.

 

Regulation 45(5) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

[nameloc]

Ok so I have checked all the paperwork and when he originally turned up, he handed a notice of seizure with only the car listed but I have sent him the “you cant take the car cos its under finance letter”.

Given the postal strike, to be sure I sent an email last Monday at around 7.30 pm. Would the 7th day be classed as today or tomorrow?

How much does it cost to put something through the local courts and where would I do that?

 

Thanks

[nameloc]

Also, will the fact that they havent contacted back go against them, only I am a little concerned about the court costs and then they come out with something in court which for some reason makes their charges correct and I am out of pocket even more