Halifax Overdraft - Changes to Accounts £1 a day

[surprise]

I received what looked like my pension payment slip, however, when I opened it I was surprised to find a note from the Halifax Collections Dept saying they were visiting me on Friday, 23rd April - no time - obviously think I am waiting in all day for them!

 

I have written to them and asked them if the purpose of the visit is to bring me a present as it happens to be a 'big' for me. Also happens that I am being treated so they are in for a disappointment.

 

I am absolutely bemused that they have gone to so much expense and trouble over what is a few hundred pounds when they have wasted so much more of the taypayers money in not trying to resolve the issues.

[the_freedom_trail]

I would like to volunteer to be your appointed representative. At a genuine 6' 4" and 17 stone I would take great pleasure in giving Halifax a taste of their own medicine - see how their employees like to be intimidated

 

I would write back and withdraw their implied right of access to your property under common law.

 

Saying that, this is quite probably a scare tactic with no real intention of a visit. You may be aware of NCO's Mr P Brown who is the only person in the world who can visit 500,000 people all at the same time. People get a note to say he is coming but he never does lol

 

Btw, I think that it is a bloody good show that you are standing up to these corporate bullies - I have much respect for people like you

 

Best Regards,

 

TFT

[surprise]

Thank you for the offer, I may have taken it up about 30 years ago!

 

Yes I have sent the letter today and sent a copy to the FOS and OFT.

[the_freedom_trail]

Thank you for the offer, I may have taken it up about 30 years ago!

 

Yes I have sent the letter today and sent a copy to the FOS and OFT.

 

Well done, keep attacking them back from every angle possible. The way these banks operate makes my blood boil!

[ravenbluemoon]

EDIT: I forgot, NatWest can also close accounts with other banks whatever the money you owe or they think you owe, they have offered this service to me so if you are in a twist with them you can stop the charges building up

 

Interesting - is this feature on all their accounts or just a specific one? I wonder if they'll accept someone with a "less than perfect" credit history?!?

[the_freedom_trail]

It would depend on what a less than perfect credit score is - if you are IVA, Bankrupt or have defaults then you are probably looking at their basic cash card account; however, if you just have a couple of late payment markers then you will probably be offered a bells and whistles account.

 

Regards,

 

TFT

[bigyeti]

After receiving the weekly reminders, I have received two further reminders, but now they've broken out the red printer cartridge.

I've just received a letter dated 22nd April stating:

 

***

Your account is being prepared for further action to commence within the next 7 days. This action may involve referral to solicitors or a debt collection agency.

***

 

I also received a letter saying that my complaint to the FOS is in a queue as they are handling a large number of complaints. I bet I know who are the main target of those complaints.

 

What a hoot. Anyone else reached this stage as yet?

[surprise]

As you will see I had a threat of a visit on 23rd April. I have now received a response saying they are dealing with my complaint. A further letter saying that despite the fact that there is a complaint with the FOS it does not stop them issuing collection notices and default notice.

 

I'm just pass caring do what they will as far as I am concerned.

[sigsoldboy]

I've had a response from the FOS - what an utter waste of time.

 

Very disappointing. It seems more and more power to the Banks. Banks won the unfair charging case, now banks can change terms and conditions "for any valid reason" with only 30 days notice. OFT should change its name to the Office for the Protection of the Banking Industry.

 

The greatest [problem] ever, make sure people can not survive without your service, make sure your service costs you zero (print money for free), make sure your can charge what you want and that any group set up to regulate you have absolutely no power over you. Something something DARK SIDE !!

[bigyeti]

How is everybody managing so far with this? Any progress? I've just received a letter saying they have withdrawn my overdraft facility. Can they do that even if I've complained to the FOS?

 

Also, can I threaten them with an injunction to accept my payment terms?

[HF whO?]

Not sure if anyone has posted up the Halifax Letter that is issued online letting the customer know that they have kindly added charges to their account but I have included it in my thread here

Edited May 9, 2010 by HF whO?

[nigel_bytes]

^^Oops! Internet Explorer could not find http here

[HF whO?]

^^Oops! Internet Explorer could not find http here

 

 

FIXED

[bigyeti]

We've had maybe 8 of those letters (each because it's a joint account)

[bigyeti]

Writing to them one last time:

 

********

I refer to your repeated reminders informing us that you think we are over our overdraft limit by £202.98, the last of which is dated 22nd April 2010. This is an error on your behalf. According to my records, my balance still stands at £1498.95.

 

We have stated many times that we do not agree to the changes to the terms and conditions of our account and therefore you cannot charge your £1/£5 per day charge to our account as we believe this is unlawful. We have made a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service about your attempt to apply these seemingly duplicitous charges and we insist that you cease sending us futile reminders. Today, we received two letters stating that our overdraft facility has been overdrawn and that we must return our cards and chequebooks. I believe the account is formally disputed and that therefore you are forbidden to conduct the account with any further detriment to us. A copy of this letter will be forwarded to the FOS to bolster our case and will be used in evidence against you.

 

In the letter we received on 20th January 2010, you say:

 

With regards to the changes to the account I can confirm we have complied with the terms and conditions.

 

This only applies to the part where you can change the terms and conditions providing you give notice. You have not complied with the terms that spell out our course of action if we do not agree to them. In other words:

 

If you do not agree to the change you can close your account. If you notify us that you do not accept a change, we will take this as notification that you wish to close your account immediately.

 

You cannot force us to agree to the changes. Unless you know of any legislation that states that you can force us to abide to your new terms and conditions. Bear in mind that such legislation would also apply to us and with that we could force you to agree to pay us £35 for each letter we have to send trying to make you see reason.

 

(Legislation quotes)

 

Your terms also state that the overdraft is repayable on demand. However, we strongly suspect the reason you haven't chosen to do this is because the interest on our outstanding balance is considerably less than £1 per day. We fully intend to pay the overdraft back at the agreed rate of 19.5%, with a minimum payment of £10 per week and we reserve the right to make extra payments as and when possible. We are happy for the account to stay open until the account is settled in full. However, we reiterate that we do not accept the proposed charges regime, any attempt to levy the £1 per day overdraft charge or the ridiculous £5 per day unauthorised overcharge fee without our explicit consent in writing will be disregarded.

 

We are more than willing to consider any counter offer you may wish to make should you choose to not accept our proposal. I feel that this is a fair repayment scheme and I am in no doubt that the court will agree given our income and outgoings. It may be worth considering that if you still levy your unlawful £1 per day charge, the balance would not be paid off until August 2019. It will be a sorry day for justice if a court deems that to be acceptable.

 

In addition to the legislation cited above, we intend to recommend to the court that it investigates whether you may be liable for prosecution under section 4-(1) of the Fraud Act 2006;

 

1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

a) occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of another person,

b) dishonestly abuses that position, and

c) intends, by means of the abuse of that position—

i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

2) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

 

I repeat just to make sure there is no ambiguity in our absolute refusal to accept this change of charging regime and that we wish to close the account.

 

We await notification of the closure of our account plus your acceptance of, or a counter offer to our reasonable overdraft repayment scheme. Should you not respond positively in this matter then there will be no further correspondence from us.

*********

 

Would I be seen as a smart arse if I signed off the letter with "Yours correctly"?

[surprise]

I shall be interested to hear the outcome of this letter as the FOS have said that they are within their right to change the terms and conditions providing they give the required notice which is what they did.

 

They will not reach a settlement with me and I have told them to take me to Court as this is the only way I shall pay back what is owed. The best part of this is if they had accepted my offer last October then the overdraft would have been paid off.

 

I have no intention of making any payments until such time that I have it in writing. I'm also awaiting the outcome of the High Court Case on S.140 against the Bank of Scotland next month.

[Bigdebtor]

Just a short amusing aside.... Have you seen the latest HBOS press adverts headlined "With you all the way"?

 

You will see the HBOS guy is actually rolling up the road in front of the HBOS customer - so actively reducing the length of "all the way" right in front of the hapless HBOS customer!

 

A picture speaks a thousand words!

 

BD

[indebtstudent]

"I shall be interested to hear the outcome of this letter as the fos have said that they are within their right to change the terms and conditions providing they give the required notice which is what they did."

 

Everybody agrees with this but that's not the issue. The issue is whether they kind bind people to ANY new terms and conditions where people don't have the money lying around to pay the balance off. It all seems to hinge on thier claim that they CANNOT (read will not) close an account where there is a debit balance.

 

There is a very clear question, therefore, that they need to answer. What do they do with accounts that are overdawrn for a very long time???? They close them and send them to a DCA.

[Its WAR]

My overdraft is now threatened with closure because I am supposed to be paying in my salary. Seems to me to be a good ruse for them, once thet have withdrawn my overdraft they can charge £5 a day rather than the £1 they get at the moment. Cant wait for the Govan case.

[bigyeti]

I received a default notice recently. Claiming I must pay £357 into the account to bring it within my limit by 8th Jun. If I don't, they'll close the account and demand the money. About bloody time, because that's what I kept asking them to do in the first place. Even though they said they cannot close an account with an outstanding balance.

 

This was followed by the usual DCA bollocks and threats to my credit history.

 

Consequently, I've drafted this letter to be posted tomorrow, it's also in the style of the letter they sent me, almost a parody if it wasn't so ridiculous:

 

****

IMPORTANT – YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY

The terms and conditions of the above account state:-

“If you do not agree to the change (of the terms and conditions) you can close your account. If you notify us that you do not accept a change, we will take this as notification that you wish to close your account immediately”

We have repeatedly notified you on 26 Oct 2009, 27 Nov 2009, 6 Feb 2010, 10 Feb 2010 and 26 Apr 2010 that we do not agree to the new charges regime in line with the above condition. You are in breach of that condition as you have elected to ignore our notification that we do not agree to the changes to the terms and conditions implemented by you in December 2009. You have also assumed that you can bind us to your terms and conditions even if we do not agree to them. This is essentially taking money without consent, and you may be liable for prosecution under section 4-(1) of the Fraud Act 2006;

1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

a) occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of another person,

b) dishonestly abuses that position, and

c) intends, by means of the abuse of that position—

i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

2) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

We have offered to repay the outstanding overdraft with a more than reasonable payment schedule commensurate with our income at the agreed interest rate.

To remedy this breach you must accept our offer or propose a reasonable counter offer and maintain our account according to the conditions agreed by us whereby the only charge on the account is the interest rate the balance attracts. You must respond by 08 June 2010.

If you do not accept this remedy by the date above then the further action set out below may be taken against you.

Further action:-

1. We will ignore your demands to repay the charges you claim we owe and no further correspondence will be entered into: and

2. on or after the date above, we may seek an injunction with the aim of having a judgement passed against you to accept our payment schedule or a schedule prescribed by the court and if applicable have any notice against us on any records held by credit reference agencies removed.

For your reference, here is the legislation we believe you are in breach of:

 

 

[legislation and so on]

 

 

Your move*

 

bigyeti

 

*I'm fed up of being faithful or sincere

[surprise]

Good luck. I've adopted a different stance with them.

 

I've sent them a letter in line with the one posted in the General forum on S140, detailing all their failings and unfair terms and conditions.

 

I have asked them to repay the charges, taking off the overdraft owed plus the rate of interest I did agree to. All other interest charges should be waived and a cheque sent to me for the balance and the account closed.

 

I gave them 7 days which is now up, so I am now awaiting the outcome Scottish case to see whether it would be worth taking them to court.

[stacywoodhouse]

I belive this issue is being investigated by BBCs Panorama programme. They are calling me tomorrow.

[bigyeti]

It just gets better and better. I received a default notice dated 11 May saying that I have until 8 Jun to pay off the unauthorised overdraft.

 

I then received a letter today dated 24 May saying that I have failed to repay the requested amount by the date of the notice, as a result they have terminated our credit agreement.

 

Here's the letter I'm sending along with a cheque for the first payment of my offer.

 

*****

I refer to your letter dated 24 May 2010 stating that we have failed to repay the requested amount by 08 Jun 2010 (your date on the default notice). From this, I can only deduce either:-

 

1. You have made an error

2. You are trying to deceive us

3. You are using bullying and aggressive tactics to scare us into paying early

4. You are fed up of waiting and have reneged on your timetable

5. You have a time machine and have yet to read the instruction manual

 

In any potential court defence submitted by us, points 1 - 4 will be used against you and we are certain that the court will see how nefarious your tactics appear.

 

However, as you seem to have ignored all of our previous correspondence to you I will state once more that we will repay the outstanding debt plus the interest on the balance at the agreed rate with a minimum weekly payment of £10, which is commensurate with our finances and we reserve the right to make extra payments. We shall not pay any other charges you have imposed on the account and you shall not apply any other overdraft charges except the interest upon the account balance without our explicit consent. Any such charges will be disregarded.

In order to expedite this, please find enclosed a cheque for the first payment of £10

*****

[jamraz]

f.o.s. adjudicator has replied to my fos complaint suggesting that he is happy with whats happened, and now i have to wait for an ombudsman to look at the complaint???????

crazy!, i thought i had asked the ombudsman to look at it, not an adjudicator....why are the fos so reluctant to sort this out?

[Bookworm]

I belive this issue is being investigated by BBCs Panorama programme. They are calling me tomorrow.

They were supposed to call me last week, I am still waiting.