MandM vs Egg Loan ***Won with Strike Out***

[MandM]

morning MandM

I too have an Egg agreement and they supplied a set of terms and conditions which didn't apply to the 2 page signed agreement (clause references didn't match etc)

 

I highlighted this in my defence and their response completely ignored the point I made about terms and conditions not consistent with the agreement. They later sent some more documentation through and included in the package a further copy of the terms and guess what - these were different and appear to be the relevant ones that would have been in force at the time (albeit they had someone else's name and agreement number on)

 

I was cross that they didn't even highlight the fact that they had sent a different set so highlighted it to the Judge and asked their barrister which set they actually wanted to rely on in their case as they had now presented two sets. I also made the point about them not pointing out that this was different documentation. The judge wasn't impressed but their barrister put it down to an administrative error and said that he hadn't seen the covering letter etc etc.

 

The terms and conditions don't have any information about cancellation rights though. I did say in my defence that even if they did, they should have been in the agreement that was signed and not hidden in multiple supplementary pages of 'things you should know'.

 

good luck

S

 

Thanks Sunshine54.

 

At least i'll be ready for that one now.

They later sent some more documentation through and included in the package a further copy of the terms

. When did they send them out of interest? I assume that it was after you'd submitted your defence but not long before your date in court! If so, would that not be grounds enough in itself to be able to ask the court for the opportunity to amend the defence! Got me thinking now lol.

Thank you for the heads up - will have a look at yours if it's on a thread.

 

M

[Sunshine54]

Hi

 

my case has been going on since January! The first set of documentation was received by me in August despite being requested in early February. Cheeky devils actually said that I'd qlready got the info via a Data Protection request so I suggested that if they wished to use that to support their claim then they should have advised me of that fact.

The August copy had naff terms and conditions and my first amended defence pointed this out. I had been consistently chasing more information about telephone tapes/transcripts which they had avoided sending for months but they did eventually send through one transcript and a further copy of the terms and conditions at the end of October. These are the ones that I queried in my next hearing as detailed in my earlier post here.

 

I got the Judge to order them to provide a statement from a senior person that these are indeed the correct terms that would have been in place at the time my agreement was taken out. He also ordered them to provide financial information about how the money from this disputed loan was dispersed, and how the balance of the loan that it cleared was calculated.

 

I'm then able to send in yet another amended defence but did agree that this time it would be fully particularised.

 

I do have a long thread about my case but must confess that I got a bit worried a few weeks ago that I would be recognised and went in and deleted lots of my posts from it -

 

I'm quite happy to share whatever info I can with you though.

 

My next hearing is scheduled for the new year and then I expect a date in the spring for the hearing.

best regards

S

Edited November 23, 2009 by Sunshine54
typo

[MandM]

Thanks SH.

 

Must admit, the thought crossed my mind once or twice to delete stuff off of here too. But on reflection the best bit of info I have is their useless DN and as they've inadvertantly proved that this is the one that was sent i'm hoping i've got them by the short and curly's. I found out about the "cancelation rights" thingy too late, defence had already gone in so will need to draw the argument out of them. BUT if they do issue some new/revised T&Cs and I do get the opportunity to amend (bearing in mind i've picked some holes in their T&Cs with my defence) they'd be opening another door for me .

 

I am subbed to your thread but see you've not posted in a while. Any further developments (PM if you don't want to put it up)

 

M

[Sunshine54]

Hi again M

 

I'll go and update my thread. In summary I'm awaiting the info that they have to provide within the next week and then I have to submit my defence around Christmas time. I'll be revising my counterclaim too and will definitely be posting on my thread for comment and feedback.

 

You can ask for to be allowed time to review their revised terms and conditions (if that's what they do and I guess they must otherwise they haven't got any Terms that actually support their case) and submit an amended defence.

regards

S

[MandM]

Hi again M

 

I'll go and update my thread. In summary I'm awaiting the info that they have to provide within the next week and then I have to submit my defence around Christmas time. I'll be revising my counterclaim too and will definitely be posting on my thread for comment and feedback.

 

You can ask for to be allowed time to review their revised terms and conditions (if that's what they do and I guess they must otherwise they haven't got any Terms that actually support their case) and submit an amended defence.

regards

S

 

Thanks for the info S.

 

Best of luck with yours.

 

M

[MandM]

Hi all.

 

Have had some paperwork from the court. Into new ground now so I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this or what I'm supposed to send back to whom. Advice and help needed with what to do next

 

Thanks

 

M

 

 

Also, the bit about trying to agree directions - does this mean I have to talk to the Sols???

Any help and advice appreciated

 

M

[MandM]

[MAGDA]

M&M, sorry I can't help with the above, but try getting one of the site team to help by clicking the red triangle if someone doesn't come along soon. Sure there will be someone who can offer some advice on this.

 

regards, Magda

[MandM]

Hi Magda and ty.

 

Got time on it - but into new ground now so not a clue how to deal with it .

Hope you're well,

M

[MandM]

Hi all.

 

Have had some paperwork from the court. Into new ground now so I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this or what I'm supposed to send back to whom. Advice and help needed with what to do next (all above).

 

Also, the bit about trying to agree directions - does this mean I have to talk to the Sols???

Any help and advice appreciated

 

M

[seriously fed up]

This is definitely not my thing as it involves English legal procedure and what little i do know about procedure is not in England.

That said, it looks to me as if the Court is trying to get the parties to the dispute (ie you and Egg) to make a clear statement about what it is that divides you - what are the disagreements (this is para 1), so I would be inclined to work my way back through this thread with the aim of identifying all the things that you reckon are (or could be said to be) wrong with Egg's position. You wont reach a consensus on this with them - if you could there would be no need to go to court. What the court is looking for is as clear a statement about the disagreements.

On the basis that there is no agreement about what the divisions are (they might argue about whether or not there is a disagreement on a particular topic) then each side needs to make proposals about the process to be followed for the court to resolve these (eg fast track or not), when the parties might be ready to go to court, and an estimate of how long the case might take.

I dont know if that helps (much of it is pretty obvious), but its about as far as i could take it, as I am absolutely certain that

 

1. there will be a lot of places that you could go seriously wrong with what you might submit
   
2. on the other hand, by submitting a carefully crafted submission to the Court, you could do yourself a good deal of good (I have a hypothesis that the likes of Egg are less likely to take on someone who seems to know what they are on about as this maximises the chance of them losing in court and creating a precedent - from their pov not a good idea)
   

For these two reasons you REALLY do need someone - probably from the site team - to come along and give you the benefit of their experience and detailed advice.

[MandM]

Hi SFU. Hope you're well

 

 

1. there will be a lot of places that you could go seriously wrong with what you might submit
   
2. on the other hand, by submitting a carefully crafted submission to the Court, you could do yourself a good deal of good (I have a hypothesis that the likes of Egg are less likely to take on someone who seems to know what they are on about as this maximises the chance of them losing in court and creating a precedent - from their pov not a good idea)
   

For these two reasons you REALLY do need someone - probably from the site team - to come along and give you the benefit of their experience and detailed advice.

These are pretty much my thoughts also. If anyone from the Site Team could give a view i'd very much appreciate the help.

 

Thanks

 

MandM

[seriously fed up]

I think if you click the red triangle, someone from the site team will come along and have a look. Now whether that's the right someone .......?

Two things you might do to be going on with

 

1. have a trawl through the site - search engine might be helpful here - to see who has experience with this procedure. Whether or not its Egg doesnt matter - what matters is the procudure and having experience of how it goes
   
2. as I suggested work through your own thread here and write down the areas of agreement with Egg (that wont take you long ) and the areas of disagreement. Just put them in a list just now. Putting them into a coherent order is the next stage, but you need to know what they are first of all. Indeed once you know that you will be better able to make use of whatever support is available to you.
   

best of luck with seeing them off

[MandM]

I think if you click the red triangle, someone from the site team will come along and have a look. Now whether that's the right someone .......?

Two things you might do to be going on with

 

1. have a trawl through the site - search engine might be helpful here - to see who has experience with this procedure. Whether or not its Egg doesnt matter - what matters is the procudure and having experience of how it goes
   
2. as I suggested work through your own thread here and write down the areas of agreement with Egg (that wont take you long ) and the areas of disagreement. Just put them in a list just now. Putting them into a coherent order is the next stage, but you need to know what they are first of all. Indeed once you know that you will be better able to make use of whatever support is available to you.
   

best of luck with seeing them off

 

Thanks SFU,

 

All that I can find on the form N24 seems to be from the claimants point of view relating to bank charges. I'll keep looking though and see what turns up.

 

M

[MandM]

Hi SFU. Hope you're well

 

 

 

These are pretty much my thoughts also. If anyone from the Site Team could give a view i'd very much appreciate the help.

 

Thanks

 

MandM

 

Bump

[MandM]

bump

[MandM]

Hi all.

 

Have had some paperwork from the court. Into new ground now so I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this or what I'm supposed to send back to whom. Advice and help needed with what to do next (all above).

 

Also, the bit about trying to agree directions - does this mean I have to talk to the Sols???

Any help and advice appreciated

 

M

 

Bump

[AndyOrch]

Quite straight forward MandM

 

You just need to submit your draft Directions,not having read your thread have you done your AQ yet and if so did you not submit any directions with said AQ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[MandM]

Quite straight forward MandM

 

You just need to submit your draft Directions,not having read your thread have you done your AQ yet and if so did you not submit any directions with said AQ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy. Yes and Yes! So am I just adjusting them to suit the current situation and re-submitting?

 

Will reply in full when I get home this evening (just sneaking on as i'm at work)

 

Thanks for popping in,

 

M

Edited December 7, 2009 by MandM

[MandM]

Hi Andy,

 

AQs were submitted early October

 

Draft order for directions was attached also.

 

It asked (mine) that the claimant file and serve; (i've summarised )

 

1) Copies of the CCA as referred to in the POC etc

 

2) Copy of the DN compliant with blah blah....which the claimant seeks to rely upon

 

3) Copies of all statements for the duration of the agreement

 

4) Copies of any other documents to be relied upon

 

Then went on to say that if they fail they should be struck out and that i'd go on to file an amended defence if they sent them

 

THEIR draft directions asked

 

1) that the defence be struck out for failing to disclose any triable issues,

 

2) The defendant files and serves a fully pleaded defence in 14 days

 

3) allocated to fasr track

 

4) CMC 28 days after 2 (30 minutes)

 

5) costs

 

They also attached a copy of the agreement, 12 pages of terms and conditions that didn't relate to the agreement in many places, a template of a DN (I have the original ) with a PC screenshot 'proving' that it was sent, and a reconstructed single page statement confirming the figure on their POC (basically an Excel spreadsheet).

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

2 weeks later, N24 from the court giving them a month to file and serve a) copy of the agreement relied upon and b) a full statement showing how the sum claimed is arrived at.

------------------------------------------------------

 

Early November I recieved their WS.

 

It went to great lengths to explain the statement, the reason it appears is that there seems to be a random figure on the end of it called 'Interest Accrued@5/10/09. Problem is (for them) their computer has continued to issue me with statements throughout the year (even in November) and the interest shown on these differs greatly from the figure shown on the reconstructed statement.

 

They also attached another copy of the agreement and T & Cs sent with the AQ!

 

I then filed my defence which, in summary, was as follows;

 

1) The DN - this (my original) did not contain the prescribed terms - not just a little thing - they forgot to print on it that it was 'Served under section 87(i) of the CCA 1974' (I did check - it is supposed to be on there ). I went quite strong on this - why they cannot reissue, the fact they terminated etc etc.

 

2) I raised a whole pile of queries regarding the 'sum' and attached various statements etc that showed their figure to be incorrect, and

 

3) I picked lots of holes in the agreement, terms and conditions and showed that the relationshio between the 2 was flawed quite clearly in 3 instances.

---------------------------------------------

 

So, in summary, we still haven't actually agreed anything! They still haven't (technically) produced the docs asked for in my AQ Draft Directions.

 

Then the letter above appeared from the court. That's where i'm at in summary - any thoughts?

 

M

[AndyOrch]

Hi MandM

 

If you give me chance to read your thread and get up to speed and then I will give you some direction.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[MandM]

Hi MandM

 

If you give me chance to read your thread and get up to speed and then I will give you some direction.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andyorch,

 

Got time - it says within 14 days of service. Front sheet dated 3rd Dec and arrived Friday the 4th

 

M

Edited December 8, 2009 by MandM
date was wrong. fat fingers again!!

[MandM]

Hi MandM

 

If you give me chance to read your thread and get up to speed and then I will give you some direction.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy O,

 

Have you had a peek yet? Would be interested to get your take on this.

 

M

[AndyOrch]

Hi M

 

Apologies for not getting back to you will run through today and post later had a lot on this week.

 

Andy

[MandM]

Hi M

 

Apologies for not getting back to you will run through today and post later had a lot on this week.

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy, Don't panic if you can't manage today, I do appreciate your efforts. Just making sure I didn't drop off your radar lol!!!

 

M