Stat demand - a complicated story

[Nomore Baloney]

Its a bit of a long story here, so sorry in advance

 

I purchased some specialist equipment (I would prefer not to say what the equipment was on an open forum as I and the co. concerned could be identified)) from a manufacturer a couple of years ago.

 

The requested delivery date was some 3 months late, meaning I had to hire some replacement equipment to tide me over.

 

When the equipment arrived it had 4 faulty parts. The company asked me to send them back for rectification to the manufacturer of those parts which i did.

 

When I got them back, they were still faulty, so with eerybodies agreement took them to a local 3rd party repairer who identified the problem and was able to effect a partial repair, but needed the tech spec of these very specialised and technical items to allow thenm to work as intended. The manufacturer of those parts paid for this work, but was unable to supply any of the exact spec as they had lost it!

 

Time was of the essence, and no more help was forthcoming as the specs were lost. A couple mopre months dragged on with no progress, so in the end I suggested I obtain some used, but identical items, have them stripped to ascertain the spec, and have mine rebuilt to that spec.

 

I asked the supplier of the main equipment (not the component manufacturer) if he thought that was ok as time once again was a serious issue. As usual, i recieved no response, so bearing in mind the sale of goods act, paid to have the items repaired.

 

Once sorted, Iwasable to contact the manufacturer who agreed verbally to recompense me.

 

In the meantime, I had recieved some spares from them, the cost which was roughly the same as the rectification costs I had incurred.

 

The supplier asked me for payment, but my point was that they owed me more money, so call it quits.

 

They have refused to accept liability for my rectification work and so after various emails to the planet thick, I recieved form them a Statutory demand under section 123 (1) OR 222 (1) OF THE INSOLVENCY ACT 1986.

 

It doesn't appear to have been issued by solicitors, but has been produced by 'infolaw' which looking at the net appears to be an online resource centre. The name and address for response is the company concerned.

 

On it it states that I must deal with it within 21 days of service upon the company or a winding up order could be made in respect of the company.

 

I am not a company though, but a private individual using the goods for a highly specialised competitive sport.

 

It also contends that I am not contending the outstanding amounts, but clearly they are ignoring the monies I am owed by them.

 

The total amount, including interest is about £2500.

 

Rather than just call them up at this stage where do I stand with this?

 

I gave up talking to them on the phone as they are, and i mean this seriously, world class thick people.

[Nomore Baloney]

Hi, not strictly a debt collection agency issue, but....

 

Recieved a stautory demand today from a company for £2600, of which £600 is interest, the rest for some parts I hold on sale or return, and about £700 for parts I ordered and recieved.

 

There has been an ongoing dispute for about 2 years now as they owe me about £700 for rectification work I had to have carried out to some faulty components that they already had 2 goes at repairing.

 

So basically, I can return the sale or return goods no prob, I owe them £700, they owe me £700, but could easily ramp that up to about £2500 given the costs involved in late supply of the goods initially which involved me having to hire equipment and other costs.

 

I have several emails to the company regarding this and trying to mitigate the stituation from day one, but they completely ignore any points I raise.

 

They referred me to their terms and conditions which were only added to their website in July, 2 days before they referred me to them. There is no way to access the t&c's from the site, but only from the link they emailed me. I have never had any T&C's on any invoices in the 2 1/2 years I have been dealing with them. Can I be liable for interest as they have dumped a lot onto the stat demand?

 

Can I issue a stat demand to them?

 

Also, they have issued the stat demand as though I am a business, which I am not.

 

Sorry its all a bit long, but its pretty complicated......

 

So I go to court and apply to have it set aside, and ask for a cost order to be included.

 

How much is this likely to be if it is set aside.

[mandyjayne]

bumping for you:)

[diddydicky]

Its a bit of a long story here, so sorry in advance

 

I purchased some specialist equipment (I would prefer not to say what the equipment was on an open forum as I and the co. concerned could be identified)) from a manufacturer a couple of years ago.

 

The requested delivery date was some 3 months late, meaning I had to hire some replacement equipment to tide me over.

 

When the equipment arrived it had 4 faulty parts. The company asked me to send them back for rectification to the manufacturer of those parts which i did.

 

When I got them back, they were still faulty, so with eerybodies agreement took them to a local 3rd party repairer who identified the problem and was able to effect a partial repair, but needed the tech spec of these very specialised and technical items to allow thenm to work as intended. The manufacturer of those parts paid for this work, but was unable to supply any of the exact spec as they had lost it!

 

Time was of the essence, and no more help was forthcoming as the specs were lost. A couple mopre months dragged on with no progress, so in the end I suggested I obtain some used, but identical items, have them stripped to ascertain the spec, and have mine rebuilt to that spec.

 

I asked the supplier of the main equipment (not the component manufacturer) if he thought that was ok as time once again was a serious issue. As usual, i recieved no response, so bearing in mind the sale of goods act, paid to have the items repaired.

 

Once sorted, Iwasable to contact the manufacturer who agreed verbally to recompense me.

 

In the meantime, I had recieved some spares from them, the cost which was roughly the same as the rectification costs I had incurred.

 

The supplier asked me for payment, but my point was that they owed me more money, so call it quits.

 

They have refused to accept liability for my rectification work and so after various emails to the planet thick, I recieved form them a Statutory demand under section 123 (1) OR 222 (1) OF THE INSOLVENCY ACT 1986.

 

It doesn't appear to have been issued by solicitors, but has been produced by 'infolaw' which looking at the net appears to be an online resource centre. The name and address for response is the company concerned.

 

On it it states that I must deal with it within 21 days of service upon the company or a winding up order could be made in respect of the company.

 

I am not a company though, but a private individual using the goods for a highly specialised competitive sport.

 

It also contends that I am not contending the outstanding amounts, but clearly they are ignoring the monies I am owed by them.

 

The total amount, including interest is about £2500.

 

Rather than just call them up at this stage where do I stand with this?

 

I gave up talking to them on the phone as they are, and i mean this seriously, world class thick people.

 

can you post up the sd without your personal particulars

 

i strongly advise doing NOTHING until you have done so

[spitfire650]

Does the amount you paid for repairs exceed £1,750, reducing their claim below £750. If so getting this set aside should not be hard.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Bump, you need to deal with the SD asap

[Nomore Baloney]

I have spoken to the brain donors that sent it and am meeting them at the end of the month to discuss.

 

Speaking to trading standards etc, they are soo out of order its almost funny.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

It is my understanding that you have only 18 days to get an SD set aside, I expect to be corrected by one of the experts if wrong.

[the_shadow]

Hi Nomore,

 

As old_andrew has stated there is a set period to this SD, its 21 days... EDIT: INCORRECT, it should be 18 days

 

I feel you are leaving yourself open here to having a bankruptcy petition issued against you if you just accept their "word". After 21 days if you havent set this aside with a court hearing they can apply to the insolvency court AT ANY TIME to make you bankrupt, so if they dont like what you say at the end of the month then they can next day issue the petition.

 

There is a threshold of £750 for bankruptcy, under that and they and you cant issue.

 

Personally I would want to have a signed document on company paper stating they were withdrawing the stat demand as discussions are ongoing... if they are not prepared to withdraw (and lets face it they can issue again anyway if they want to) then I would seek to get the SD set aside.

 

S.

Edited October 8, 2009 by the_shadow

[the_shadow]

There are a number of reasons a SD can be set aside,

 

To successfully get a statutory demand set aside one or more of the following must be satisfied:-

 

• The amount stated on the statutory demand is disputed.
  
• The person issuing the statutory demand also owes money. This is called a counterclaim.
  
• The person issuing the statutory demand is holding security that equals or exceeds the amount owing.
  
• The demand was issued in error.
  
• The amount owing is less than £750
  
• Execution has been stayed on a judgement debt.
  
• The debtor is complying with an instalment order. This would mean the debt is not actually owed as it is being paid back.
  
• The creditor failed to comply with the rules and prejudiced the debtor in the process
  

 

If you can meet one of the above criteria then in theory you can get this set aside.

 

S.

[spitfire650]

Hi Nomore,

 

As old_andrew has stated there is a set period to this SD, its actually 21 days...

 

I feel you are leaving yourself open here to having a bankruptcy petition issued against you if you just accept their "word". After 21 days if you havent set this aside with a court hearing they can apply to the insolvency court AT ANY TIME to make you bankrupt, so if they dont like what you say at the end of the month then they can next day issue the petition.

 

There is a threshold of £750 for bankruptcy, under that and they and you cant issue.

 

Personally I would want to have a signed document on company paper stating they were withdrawing the stat demand as discussions are ongoing... if they are not prepared to withdraw (and lets face it they can issue again anyway if they want to) then I would seek to get the SD set aside.

 

S.

I think you will find it is 18 days to make an application to set aside the statutory demand and 21 days to pay it.

 

Either way you do not want to leave yourself in a position where they can present a petition against you.

 

From what you say above, the demand sounds like an abuse of process and should be set aside without too much difficulty. The company that served this sound a bit underhand too - the terms they rely on can't be binding from the way they introduced these.

[phil_nottingham]

I have spoken to the brain donors that sent it and am meeting them at the end of the month to discuss.

 

Speaking to trading standards etc, they are soo out of order its almost funny.

 

Do not be fobbed of by this. You need to act now. They are simple saying end of the month so the SD cant be set aside.

Not a nice trick on thier part.

 

Ps.

 

Its also free to get it set aside.

Edited October 8, 2009 by phil_nottingham

[spitfire650]

Do not be fobbed of by this. You need to act now. They are simple saying end of the month so the SD cant be set aside.

Not a nice trick on thier part.

I agree.

 

Everything you have said about this company sounds underhand.

 

If someone served a statutory demand on me in these circumstances I would apply to have it set aside without even contacting them and let them learn the errors of their ways by means of an order for costs.

[the_shadow]

I think you will find it is 18 days to make an application to set aside the statutory demand and 21 days to pay it.

 

Either way you do not want to leave yourself in a position where they can present a petition against you.

 

From what you say above, the demand sounds like an abuse of process and should be set aside without too much difficulty. The company that served this sound a bit underhand too - the terms they rely on can't be binding from the way they introduced these.

 

Eeek, never nice to wake up and see you gave mistaken advice... you are of course correct and if I'd bothered to read fully from the notes I'd pasted I would have seen in big bold red letters 18 days highlighted , apologies old_andrew.

 

Please either get them to withdraw or get this set aside... you CANNOT rely on them not proceeding otherwise.

 

S.

[Nomore Baloney]

I have tried to (unsuccessfully) get an appointment with the CAb as they only do 'drop ins' prior to having a full appt. The small place where I live is rammed with people and on the 2 occasions when I attended was a min 2hr wait!

 

Spoken to trading standards who have advised that of the monies they are claiming, because of faulty parts, I only owe them about £250, wheras they owe me £700 for repair work, plus possibly the hire fees for hiring equipment due to late delivery.

 

Are they allowed to charge interest on the amount they allege I owe them?

 

And as a private individual, am I allowed to charge them interest on the moneythey owe me?

 

Its all getting to be a right pain as I will have to attend court in Liverpool to get this set aside, plus a 2nd trip to appear in front of the judge if he wants to hear the set aside facts.

[phil_nottingham]

You dont need to see CAB about this, plenty of people on here to help

 

Your next step is to apply to the court to get it set aside. Is liverpool your nearest county court ?, if not then choose your local one.

 

Dont think about anything else with regards to this apart from setting it aside

[the_shadow]

I have tried to (unsuccessfully) get an appointment with the CAb as they only do 'drop ins' prior to having a full appt. The small place where I live is rammed with people and on the 2 occasions when I attended was a min 2hr wait!

 

Spoken to trading standards who have advised that of the monies they are claiming, because of faulty parts, I only owe them about £250, wheras they owe me £700 for repair work, plus possibly the hire fees for hiring equipment due to late delivery.

 

Are they allowed to charge interest on the amount they allege I owe them?

 

And as a private individual, am I allowed to charge them interest on the moneythey owe me?

 

Its all getting to be a right pain as I will have to attend court in Liverpool to get this set aside, plus a 2nd trip to appear in front of the judge if he wants to hear the set aside facts.

 

did you sign any paperwork which had t&c on them? If you can prove the date the t&c were added to the website and the fact you have never been shown these t&c then you would think they'll be on shaky ground attempting to reclaim interest where no agreement of charging exists.

 

As to you claiming interest, for the same reasons prob not unless you want to attempt to charge them the same interest as they are charging you under s69 interest. Usually this would be at 8% but if they are charging you under a so called contractual amount then I think you can charge the same back and if they are using compound interest then you to can do the same in theory.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Your next step is to apply to the court to get it set aside. Is liverpool your nearest county court ?, if not then choose your local one.

 

Needs to be a county court than handles insolvency cases.

 

S.

[Nomore Baloney]

Never had a copy of their terms and conditions. As the company stated to me their t&c's are available at their factory or on their website.

 

Well their t&c's are NOT able to be navigated to from their website, and as the lady at Trading Std's told me today as I didn't buy the equipment off the internet its not relevant anyway.

 

Interestingly enough, when I asked them for a link to their terms and conds, it was amended (or posted) 2 days before they mentioned they even existed.....

 

Liverpool is my nearest court that deals with set asides - only 25 miles away. Great.

 

Think I will try getthe company to withdraw it...

[the_shadow]

Never had a copy of their terms and conditions. As the company stated to me their t&c's are available at their factory or on their website.

 

Well their t&c's are NOT able to be navigated to from their website, and as the lady at Trading Std's told me today as I didn't buy the equipment off the internet its not relevant anyway.

 

Interestingly enough, when I asked them for a link to their terms and conds, it was amended (or posted) 2 days before they mentioned they even existed.....

 

Liverpool is my nearest court that deals with set asides - only 25 miles away. Great.

 

Think I will try getthe company to withdraw it...

 

Give them a deadline to withdraw it as the clock/calender is definitely key here and ensure you tell them you will apply to set aside and ask for costs against them if they dont agree.

 

S.

[Nomore Baloney]

Can they issue a section 123 stat demand to me as a private individual?

 

Really need to find out about this - tried 4 times to get an appointment at citizens advice and failed! people queing out of the door and they will only do 'drop in' assessments - not muchh good if you have to wait 3 hrs to be seen!

[spitfire650]

This sounds like the 4.1 form which is used for limited companies.

 

A bankruptcy petition based on this would be defective as the demands for individual have to contain additional information, in particular details and the appropriate court for applying to have this set aside.

 

That said, I would still make the application to set aside the demand, which if they have used the wrong form is very likely to succeed, apart from the other grounds because they have abused the bankruptcy process and the set aside order will strengthen your hand in any settlement discussions.

[Nomore Baloney]

Yes it is a 4.1 form. On that basis then any bankruptcy petition from them would be invalid I take it, so do I need to get it set aside?

 

Just that its a 60 mile round trip to the nearest court and its tricky to get time off work....

[spitfire650]

Believe me, if a bankruptcy petition is presented, the inconvenience of dealing with this will outweigh driving 60 miles.

 

You don't have to deliver the set aside application to the court personally - you can send this by post, but bear in mind your 18 days are nearly up. You will however have to attend the hearing of the application which will be in a few weeks time.

 

If you need any help preparing the application just ask.

 

Good luck!

[Nomore Baloney]

Believe me, if a bankruptcy petition is presented, the inconvenience of dealing with this will outweigh driving 60 miles.

 

You don't have to deliver the set aside application to the court personally - you can send this by post, but bear in mind your 18 days are nearly up. You will however have to attend the hearing of the application which will be in a few weeks time.

 

If you need any help preparing the application just ask.

 

Good luck!

 

PM sent.