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    • I did ask them why, but seems they have more spare cash than we do .. ;-( .. I doubt their bank would even support a chargeback after a year has passed. Anyway I've constructed my first DRAFT Snotty Letter .. so here goes ..   RE: PCN 4xxxxx Dear ALLIANCE PARKING Litigation Dept, Thank you for your dubious Letter Of Claim (dated 29th April 2024) of £100 for just 2 minutes of overstay. The family rolled around on the floor in amazement of the idea you actually think they’d accept this nonsense, let alone being confused over the extra unlawful £70 you had added. Shall we raise that related VAT issue with HMRC, or perhaps the custodians of the unicorn grain silos? Apart from the serious GDPR breach you’ve made with the DVLA and your complete failure in identifying the driver, we’re dumbfounded that the PCN is still not compliant with the PoFA (2012 Schedule 4 Under Section 9.2.f) even after 12 years of pathetic trial and error. We also doubt a judge would be very impressed at your bone idleness and lack of due diligence regarding the ANPR entry / exit periods compared with actual valid parking periods. Especially with no consideration of the legally allowed grace periods and the topological nature of the Cornish landscape versus a traditional multi-storey. And don’t even get us started on the invisible signage during the ultra busy bank holiday carnage, that is otherwise known as the random parking chaos in the several unmarked over-spill fields, or indeed the tedious “frustration of contract” attempting to get a data connection to Justpark.  We suggest your clients drop this extreme foolishness or get an absolute hammering in court. We are more than ready to raise the issues with a fair minded judge, who will most likely laugh your clients out in less time than it takes to capture more useless ANPR photos. We will of course be requesting “an unreasonable costs order” under CPR 27.14.2.g and put it toward future taxis to Harlyn Bay instead.  We all look forward to your clients' deafening silence. Legal Counsel on behalf of the Vehicle Keeper.  
    • Hi,t I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right subsection but General Retail appears to be the closest to it I think... About a year and a half ago I got a new phone so I listed my iPhone 10 on eBay.  The listed stated 'UK only' and 'no returns accepted'. Considering I had had the phone for about 4 years, I myself was amazed that I had kept it in such good condition all that time - apart from being slightly scuffed around the charging port there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. It had the original box, its unopened original Apple cable, plug, and earbuds, and I threw in a case for it and It had always had a screen protector on it. Someone wanted it from Armenia, and I stupidly agreed to it.  She paid and I sent it off, fully insured. Not long after she received it, she sent a message saying it 'was not as described', so I asked to see photos of whatever was the problem.  She sent two photographs of the box.  Just the box.  I said I wasn't even going to consider refunding her unless she told me what she meant by 'not as described'.  I thought, if it's been damaged in transit, then it would be covered by the insurance. Anyway, she didn't respond at all, even though I had messaged her several times, so she opened a case with eBay. I have sold a fair few things of mine on eBay in the past buy had never had had anyone come back to me asking for a refund.  I got in touch with eBay several times by phone and by email, and found out they always side with the buyer, no matter what with their 'eBay Seller Guarantee'.  She had been told she could keep the phone and told me they would recover the money from me from my account blah blah.  So I unlinked all of my cards etc and changed my bank account to one that I never use with no money in it. My account got suspended.  I continued to try to explain to eBay that I had been scammed but I got nowhere. My account was permanently inaccessible by this point. I reported the phone stolen and the IMEI blacklisted but I'm not sure if that would make any difference being in Armenia, but it was all I could think of to piss the buyer off. A couple of months later I was contacted by email by a debt recovery company (I can' remember who now), to whom I explained I will not discuss the matter with them until I had received an SAR I had requested from eBay. As I could no longer access my account, I couldn't review the communication I needed to show I was not in the wrong. The SAR was produced but I was advised that the information I was looking for would not be included but I said I wanted it anyway.  There were so many codes etc. and hoops to jump through to access it, that even after trying whilst on the phone to them, I still couldn't get into it, so I never got to see it in the end.  I think they said they would send the code by post but they never did and I forgot about it after a while. I've just come across a couple of emails from Moorgroup, asking me to phone them to discuss a private matter regarding eBay.  I haven't replied or done anything at all yet.  The amount they are trying to recover from me is £200ish from what I remember. I know it's not that much but I don't want to pay the b*astards on general principle. I've had a lot of useful advice from CAG in the past about debt collectors but it has always been about being chased by creditors, I've never been in this situation before. I don't know what power they legally have to recover the 'debt', and most importantly, I am two years into a DRO, and the last thing I want is another CCJ to shake off if I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face.   Any advice gratefully received!!
    • Hi, I have the Sims 4 on Macbook. Over the last year I have paid for multiple add on packs spending a lot of money on them. I bought them all in good faith as my Mac met all the minimum requirements to play them. I have been playing happily for about a year and bought my latest pack just over a week ago. The games were all working fine yesterday. Then suddenly today EA released a new app to launch the games and this new app requires a MAC OS that my computer cannot use. Now suddenly none of my games are accessible and I am unable to play anything. They did not warn us about this change in requirements and if I had known they would be doing this I wouldn't have bought all these add ons as they are now all totally unusable. The games themselves have not changed, only their app to launch them and I can't afford to buy a brand new mac just to play. So my question is how can they change the minimum requirements after I have paid for a game? I agreed to pay for them based on the fact my mac met their requirements and was not informed when purchasing that this would be an issue in the future. I understand new games (like Sims 5 which is to be released next year) might not be compatible but this is a 10yr old game that they have suddenly made inaccessible due to their new launch app. Does anybody know if I can do anything or anyway to get a partial refund from them? Thanks   Here are their T&C... I can't find anything in there about them being able to do this so not sure what to do https://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/
    • OK. Thank you all for the input.  I'll ignore their letters of demand but NEVER ignore a letter of claim. I'm bracing myself for the stress as their demands £££ goes up and the case gets sent to debt collectors. 
    • OK.  It was worth a try. Their case is still pants and they have broken their own Code of Practice numerous times.
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Letter from a debt collector on behalf of Excel, owner of vehicle mentally disabled


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Hello

 

i have followed your advice about ignoring letters from Excel but now we have received a letter from a debt collecting company saying that in the "absence of payment or any valid dispute" they will "pursue the matter".

 

The letters are all addressed to my father who is the owner of the vehicle but is not allowed to drive because he is classed as mentally disabled after a motorbike accident. Several people are therefore on his insurance policy to drive him around. Can we argue that he does not know/remember who was driving the vehicle and as a mentally disabled person he cannot be liable?

 

Many thanks

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Yes you can argue this but I would like to see you continue to ignore.

 

I'm not too sure that a mental disability absolves liability though.

 

Raises some interesting thoughts on "Owner Liability" for LA issued PCNs though which I know this is not.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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argue what? You are not in anyway legally obliged to tell me or any other random 3rd party (including Excel) who is driving. IT is their responsibility to prove who is driving ... and they have no legal powers to carry out investigations or force people to tell them under oath!!!!

 

Let them chase your father all the way. If they take it to court (which they wont) the case would be dismissed as soon as you can prove your Dad was not the driver.

 

Remember, debt collectors have absolutely no powers. They are just agressive individuals who are paid comission and so bend the truth to make you think you must pay!!!!

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Wow, thanks for the really quick replies guys!! :-)

 

i remember reading somewhere amongst all the other threads that the owner of the vehicle cannot be held liable on private carparks and that when Excel write in their letters "you are liable as owner of the vehicle" that this is a lie, but i can't find that post anymore, could you possibly give me some tips on where to find the exact legal regulations on this?

 

Also, i read something in the letter templates thread about behaving reasonably. The debt collector's are saying "If we do not hear from you within 7 days we will pass the matter to our solicitors, who will review your case for potential legal action". It therefore seems a bit unreasonable not to reply... Would it not be reasonable to reply saying that my father was not the driver, is mentally incapacitated, cannot drive and does not know who was driving?

 

Thanks again!

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DO NOT respond in anyway otherwise they'll never leave you alone.

 

Please accept the advice already given here that they have no legal right whatsoever to demand from you or anyone else payment. They certainly have no legal entitlment to demand the details of the person who may have been driving on the date in question

 

& even if the owner IS mentally ill that's none of their business Also if you did you could be in breach of the law by divulging such highly confidential info without the subjects consent which it would appear they can't give as they don't have capacity

 

& last but not least it's not a good idea to let strangers know that there is a vunerable person at that address as who knows what might happen ................ the drive tarmac:rolleyes: .............. the roof repaired:rolleyes: all costing thousands of pounds........... need I go on:cool:

Edited by JonCris
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argue what? You are not in anyway legally obliged to tell me or any other random 3rd party (including Excel) who is driving. IT is their responsibility to prove who is driving ... and they have no legal powers to carry out investigations or force people to tell them under oath!!!!

 

Let them chase your father all the way. If they take it to court (which they wont) the case would be dismissed as soon as you can prove your Dad was not the driver.

 

Remember, debt collectors have absolutely no powers. They are just agressive individuals who are paid comission and so bend the truth to make you think you must pay!!!!

 

Whilst I agree whith most of your comments I would point out that the original poster doesn't have to 'prove' anything, if anything it's for Excel to 'prove' who was driving NOT the otherway round & even then they'd have to prove a valid contract existed between them & the driver

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okey dokey, will follow your advice, especially about revealing his condition, thanks for that!

If we get a solicitor's letter i suppose we'll have to reply though, so i'll just say he is the owner but cannot drive the vehicle as he has no licence and he doesn't know who was driving.

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Oh my gawd ............NO you won't have to reply to anyones letter, even a solicitor. Anyone can get a 'solicitors' letter sent for a few quid. In your case it would be meaningless as they would have no more status than Excel which amounts to now't as they still have to establish who was driving & if a contract was entered into but if you do then come back here I we'll tell you if or how you should respond

 

Perhaps because your new here you don't realize but some here on this site who give free advice are lawyers

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oh ok, didn't realise that. Was thinking about getting our solicitor to reply in the case of a letter from theirs but then i thought our solicitor would probably charge us the same for a letter as the original £40 fine. Ok, will come back to you if we get a solicitor's letter from them.

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In summary:

• it is a mail [problem]

• there is no 'fine', only a charge which is completely unenforceable

• the keeper was not the driver and has nothing to do with the charge

• Excel's paperwork is unlawful. Claiming the keeper is liable is actually fraud under the 2006 Fraud Act

ignore everything and if hell froze over and it went to court, your defence would be more solid than diamond. But it won't go to court anyway - the letters will just dry up and they'll move onto another victim.

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Whilst I agree whith most of your comments I would point out that the original poster doesn't have to 'prove' anything, if anything it's for Excel to 'prove' who was driving NOT the otherway round & even then they'd have to prove a valid contract existed between them & the driver

 

I said that! Though if it went to court you would have to reply to the defence stating why it was incorrect and then show evidence to prove why they were not the driver...

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Great thanks!

Haven't understood the difference between keeper and owner but will follow your advice and do nothing.

i really don't want my dad to have to go through the ordeal of a court appearance though....

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in your case, the difference between the keeper and owner is irrelivant. They have got your Dads details from the DVLA and are writing to him hoping he'll just believe the rubbish and think that he is responsible for all the drivers (like the police/council tickets) and pay up.

 

It will never get to court... but if it did, you can tell the courts that your father is unable to attend due to his disability... the judge would probably throw it out before it even got to that stage!!!

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For all intents and purposes, they are the same. It's just that the owner may not necessarily be the keeper.

 

This is a mail [problem] though - court is economically unviable for them. I doubt your father would have to get involved if he isn't fit anyway.

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okey dokey, will follow your advice, especially about revealing his condition, thanks for that!

If we get a solicitor's letter i suppose we'll have to reply though, so i'll just say he is the owner but cannot drive the vehicle as he has no licence and he doesn't know who was driving.

If you'd care to look you'll see several people got a letter from Roxburghe's linked to Excel this last week. And yes, i speak from experience. Some for a carpark where Excel were exposed, again on here.

 

If i sent you an official looking letter demanding money, would you pay me?? Of course not.

Now do yourself and your family a big favour and file the nonsense away and ignore.

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agreed

 

ignore totally

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I said that! Though if it went to court you would have to reply to the defence stating why it was incorrect and then show evidence to prove why they were not the driver...

 

 

No you don't THEY have to PROVE you were, prove being the operative word. Just because your the registered keeper doesn't mean your liable & even then as Excel have already found out to their cost their 'contract' both with the driver AND the land owner would have to be enforceable

Edited by JonCris
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Well I aint going to argue, but it would be a pretty poor reply to the defence if you didn't submit a reason why them saying the disabled father wasn't the driver.... the judge isn't psychic, he's going to want to see the reason why you state he wasn't!! There is no point in holding back that sort of evidence!

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I said that! Though if it went to court you would have to reply to the defence stating why it was incorrect and then show evidence to prove why they were not the driver...

In a civil claim the onus of proof is on the claimant. Both parties are assumed to be telling the truth. It is sufficient to deny their claim.

 

They can't just show up in court and say the registered keeper was the driver. The first thing a judge will ask them is How do you know? And as one PPC (of porcine persuasion) found out "We just do" will not suffice.

 

Only if they have some form of evidence they can present e.g. CCTV footage and a clear identification of a driver from a third party (otherwise the face in the picture is just a face) and/or a letter naming the driver will a claimant be entitled to conclude the RK and the driver are one and the same.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

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Yes but to claim the keeper doesn't remember may also be stretching credibility to an extreme & statements if proven false, may land the keeper in more trouble namely perjury. In addition as pin & I say it's upto them to prove who the driver was. Failure to do so would be enough to have the case thrown out at the outset

Edited by JonCris
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IMO the 'not the driver defence' is weak if the keeper was the driver (otherwise it's sound). The judge could perfectly reasonably decide that on the balance of probabilities the keeper was the driver if there is no evidence otherwise.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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