Suspended pending investigation thats already happened ?

[elpulpo]

Costs are only awarded at ET in a small minority of cases.

Having read your posts Majik, I can't imagine yours would be one of them.

[majik]

Many thanks Elpulpo for confirming my thoughts.

 

Do i have to have a solicitor or can i represent myself/ get my OH to represent me ?

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

When you filled out the form for the ET what did you raise as the main point for going to ET ?

 

What compensation or remedy are you seeking ?

 

Just helps me give better more targetted advice

 

Regards

[majik]

Unfair dismissal is the reason for the complaint as to date no proof has been provided to back up their allegations.

 

Loss of earnings and my months notice is compensation i am seeking.

 

How does that help target the advise ?

 

The advise i require is how do i defend alleagtion 4 when the company have not released any evidence to prove their allegation.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

The main reason is, if the ET judge feels you are just after a quick buck it may sway there decision.

 

Are you still out of work ? if not did you wait till the appeal decision before seeking work.

 

Im hoping you did not accept a new job while on paid suspension, as this will severely hamper the decision.

 

Regards

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Having been through an ET myself, i fully understand how devious and underhanded some employers can be to win the ET case.

 

They do get the chance to cross examing you, and any witnesses you supply, so you must make sure you are ready for any questions.

 

Regards

[majik]

I was on paid suspension for 2 weeks and was then dismissed, i was out of work for 3.5 further weeks before starting my new job.

 

My appeal was heard almost 6 weeks after i was dismissed and as i was trying to mitigate my losses i could not really sit around waiting for the company to decide when the appeal was going to be etc.

 

For all the stress that the company have caused me to date and still are the money i am requesting is peanuts in all honesty, im not in it for the money and to be honest after costs etc i will be left with very little should i win.

[majik]

Hi,

 

Having been through an ET myself, i fully understand how devious and underhanded some employers can be to win the ET case.

 

They do get the chance to cross examing you, and any witnesses you supply, so you must make sure you are ready for any questions.

 

Regards

 

I have asked how you found it to try and prepare myself but you dont seem keen to answer that question.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

It is not that i am not keen, it is just you have to realise how serious an ET is.

 

You have to make sure that you have all the facts and allways tell the truth.

 

Any slight wrong doing or if your company have anything on you. it will come to light in the meeting. and believe me the employer has allways done there homework and has a mass of evidence and signed documents , and a signed employee handbook.

 

You have to make sure that you have everything in writing and make sure that you have done nothing wrong, for example the alleged threatning behaviour towards the staff by your other half, they may bring the member of staff as a witness and they will tell the judge how they felt threatned and had to press the panic alarm and involve the police etc.

 

Regards

[majik]

I understand that but my partners behavour is him not me, Secondly Police attended at OH request and we have police URN number to confirm this, Thirdly CCTV has been viewed by CEO and he issued a letter confirming that no offense took place etc etc etc.

 

I understand an ET is serious and i would not be taking the action unless i had to, I have been accused of 4 things, 3 i have sucessfully cleared myself of and the 4th i am in the process of clearing my name, Once i have the CCTV i believe it will prove the OH version of events and that is why the Witness Statement has not been released, i believe it is because it is full of libelous comments about my partner. The company have repeatedly slagged him and he has successfully defending his actions and got a full retraction from the CEO. I feel that can be the only reason for the non release of the Witness Statement .

 

My partner was about to Issue Court Papers for defamation and libel due to the comments that were made about him and it has been confirmed by the CEo that it was completely untrue.

 

The evidence they have provided to date has all been proved useless and they clearly did not do their homework hence how ai defending myself against the first 3 allegation.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

From my experience most panic alarms are connected to the local police station, so you may find that they may have called them as well.

 

even though the ceo has issued that statement the individual may still want to take this up in a seperate private court hearing, have you spoken to them or has the ceo confirmed that they have spoken to the member of staff and confirmed that they will not take any action against your other half ?

 

What comments have they made about your other half and why ? and has he got involved in the disciplinary or appeal in any way ? Phone calls to your employer etc, as they may twist this as harrasment etc.

 

regards

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

It would be interesting to see this statement from the ceo, to see how it is worded etc ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Comments that he was violent and abusive to staff which have been retracted by the CEO as after viweing CCTV can find no evidence to support this. Comments are made by HR, not quite sure where they got the info from though. Probably the staff members witness statemen which has not been released as of yet.

 

Panic alarm was not connected to the Police and the Officers who attended confirmed they were there at my OH request hence why he has the log details etc. I believe the second car was called by store but have no proof of this.

 

OH has not spoken staff member concerned as nothing took place as confirmed by CEO.

 

The appeal and OH case against the company, (SAR and issuing court papers has all kinda of been merged and now the OH just speaks direct to the CEO about all issues, His complaint and Disciplinary and CEO replies direct to him)

[majik]

unfortunetly i cannot scan it without giving away personal details etc or company details

 

What wording are you after and i can type it up tomoz. Basically it confirms that following an investigation he can find no evidence that any illegal act took place and the he gaurentees that no action will be taken by the company now or in the further in relation to said date.

 

He acknowledges that given the circumstances everyone acted as they should and that maybe the situation could have been handled better.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Why has your other half got involved ? the disciplinary and appeal are about you, the ET judge may look down on this. your ex employer should not be dsclosing anything to your other half about your case ?

 

so what comments have been made about your other half and by who ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Due to my partner complaining about breaches of Data Protection Act the CEO has solely dealt with him from then onwards.

 

The CEO has kind of merged everything into 1 (partners claim of libel and DPA offenses and my disciplinary etc) and has dealt with OH, i have no issues with it and means we get the answers a lot quicker than we were etc.

 

comments made against other half are that he was violent and aggressive to a member of staff, comments were made by HR and after viewing the CCTV CEO has confirmed that it was incorrect, OH never even spoke to said member of staff and CCTV proved this in the eyes of CEO. OH is still waiting for SAR request to be completed etc once it is he will have a copy to view.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Are you absolutely sure that your other half did not speak to the member of staff ? if he has this will definetly be shown in the ET as it shows that your other half may have tried to sway the outcome of your disciplinary.

 

sorry just playing devils advocate as i know how harsh they can be when they cross examine.

 

Does this member of staff still work for your ex employer ? if they do they will definetly have a copy of the cctv as well.

 

If they have left the company they may pursue a private court case.

 

Regards

[majik]

OH did not speak to staff member, OH works in security so knows all about CCTV evidence etc which is why he made sure he didn't.

 

I was not present during any of the issues around allegation 4 so i would have thought i wouldn't be cross examined about it, my response would be i was not there if i was cross examined.

 

Yes they still work there, doubt they would persue a private case, as i have repeadtly stated nothing happened there were 20-25 metres apart, nothing was said by either party so unless you can take action against someone breathing there is no issue or risk of private case. Of course this is my OH version of events which he can prove once CCTV is released. Also the letter from CEO does also put my mind at ease that nothing untoward took place.

 

Private court case would require my OH details which he does not have and also as Police attended and left they confirmed nothing took place as has the CEO.

Edited December 12, 2009 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

it will be every difficult to defend against allegation 4 until you can see the evidence.

 

Have they gave you a date as to when you should receieve this by ?

 

I would definetly advise asking the ceo or member of staff to put it in writing that nothing happened and no private court case will be filed.

 

Regards

[majik]

CEO has already confirmed that nothing happened in the letter OH already has.

 

OH hasn't been given a date as of yet, OH requested footage to clear his name not mine and to prove his witness statement. Im hoping that once that is done it will result in the company dropping allegation 4.

Orignial 40 day limit on SAR request was up begining December but due to the CEO believing the letter cleared my OH he didn't think OH still wanted CCTV requested, OH has now clarified what CCTV is required and were hoping to have it by xmas.

 

As i have been accused of allegation 4 should i not have been supplied evidence for this ? what happens if no evidence is ever supplied to me in relation to this ? How do i proceed at the ET. Can i state that as no evidence has been provided i feel i have no case to answer ?

 

Hoping to have acceptance letter from ET over weekend/begining of next week and then company have 28 days to respond so hopefully by middle January we should have the reply, by which time we would have had CCTV and hopefully resolved allegation 4

Edited December 12, 2009 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

This is what acas say about the evidence :

 

9. If it is decided that there is a disciplinary case to answer, the employee should be notified of this in writing. This notification should contain sufficient information about the alleged misconduct or poor performance and its possible consequences to enable the employee to prepare to answer the case at a disciplinary meeting. It would normally be appropriate to provide copies of any written evidence, which may include any witness statements, with the notification.

employees

should be informed of the allegations

against them, together with the

supporting evidence, in advance of

the meeting.

 

Hope this helps.

 

It doesnt say that they HAVE to give you copies of the evidence it just implies that they should do where appropiate.

 

Regards

[majik]

Thanks

 

I have read the extract from ACAS before hand, The issue is they have chosen not to provide me with the evidence and also not to present/use it ini the disciplinary meeting or appeal, they refer to it but it isn't actually used as such and obviously i have never seen it.

 

Could i ask the ET to to dmismiss there defence as they have not provided me with evidence to defend myself, or can i request the ET force the evidence to be released to me ?

 

I can just see it going the distance and on the day im asked question relating to the Witness statement and the only answer i can give is it have not seen or ever been given a copy so cant comment etc.

 

Kinda defeats the object to me, if they have proof i have doen wrong provide it, if they dont why are they allowing it to go this far ?

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

They do not have to supply you the evidence, but when it goes to ET you will get the chance there to review the evidence as they have to disclose it there before you go in front of the judge.

 

are you not worried that they will now supply a bad reference to your new job ? as we all know, that no employer nowadays will take anyone on without a full reference check.

 

Regards

[majik]

No

 

I didnt use them as a referance so no worries at all

 

But surely the ET will ask why the evidence was not released at the time ? Will that go against the company as surely its a Breach of ACAS rules etc ?

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Be very carefull as it will show up a gap in your employment history when they run your references.

 

They will want to know why your ex employee was paying your tax and you did not declare it on your application. This is definetly a gross misconduct charge. what sector are you working in at the moment ? it depends how tight they are on there reference checks.

 

If it is police or local councils etc it will show up.

 

It is not a breach of acas rules as they do not have to disclose the evidence to you if not appropiate, just refer to it in the disciplinary.

 

Regards