Suspended pending investigation thats already happened ?

[majik]

Apologises i have now added allegation 4 to the first page with all other allegation. I thought i had already done this.

 

I was sent an email telling me that it was going to be involved 1 day before the disciplinary meeting, On the day when it was mentioned (i was asked how my partner obtained my code and just said it was not from me and that he informed me it was from the other member of staff), i also stated that i did not think it could be part of the process and handed a statement to the person chairing from my partner.My partner had written this as his version of the events. He read it then adjurned the meeting for around 30 minutes. He then came back and said after a full and thorough investigation (He made a phone call) he believes that i was lying and so was my partner in his witness statement.

 

This led to my partner being accused of a criminal act which he vigorously denied and threatened legal action due to the libelous and slanderous things that were said. He has now received a full apology and retraction from the CEO of the compnay and it has been confirmed that he did nothing illegal.

 

Very complicated i know but i feel as its noted in the disciplinary minutes that allegation 4 is not part of the process and as i have never been provided anything to back up the claim how can it possibly be used.

 

There side is at the disciplinary meeting the person chairing spoke to the other staff member and believes her and at the appeal the person chairing had seen the witness statement from her and he believes that and he would release a copy to me if he feels it relevant. (3.5 weeks later i have still not seen it) my appeal letter states his decision is final and he is still aware that i have not been sent the witness statement they were using or the minutes from the appeal meeting (i have a photocopy of the eligible hand written ones but not a copy of the typed ones)

 

Also please note i was not aware of what my partner was doing etc but he is requesting CCTV footage via a SAR and has obvisously cleared his name so i honestly believe that no wrong doing took place.

Edited December 10, 2009 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Did they give you 24 hrs notice before including allegation 4 ?

 

Did the ceo put the apology and retraction in writiing ?

 

And by saying your partner done nothing illegal have they withdrawn allegation 4 ?

 

Have you seen any evidence to prove that the member of staff did supply your partner with the code ?

 

Did you sign the handwritten notes in the appeal meeting ? (they do not have to supply a typed version if you signed and accepted the handwritten ones)

 

Regards

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Just saw your update on previous post, what cctv footage is he requesting ? what allegation would this relate to ?

 

Sorry dont quite understand the code part, but did your partner have written permission to use your code ? even if the member of staff had given the code out (this would be dealt with by the company if proved that the member of staff done wrong) did you give permission to your partner to use it ?

 

Sorry just playing devils advocate ?

 

Regards

[majik]

No they have not withdrawn allegation 4.

 

Yes my partner has it in writting and the CEO acknowledges that it could have been handled better.

 

I will have to check weather it was 24 hours but i was sent an email the day before, i dont think it would have been 24 hours, maybe 22.

 

I have not seen any evidence in relation to this accusation, My partner has requested CCTV via a SAR which hasn't been released as of yet but will be released shortly. He feels it should show the staff member checking the system for it them her speaking to him and him confirming the number back to her. Depending on how clear the CCTV is we are hoping to be able to lip read it.

 

Yes signed hand written copy but its noted in the minutes that they will be typed up and supplied as they have done with all others from meetings to date.

[majik]

My partner asked for a code or key and he used the one supplied to him by the member of staff. At the time he had no idea it was my code which it where the problem arises.

 

He was named as a second contact in access to something at my work and was well known to the company and the staff member in question and attended my place of work regulary to help out with handyman type jobs on his days off etc.

 

The CCTV requested is the area he is said to have entered, this would show him taking photos outside taking 2 steps into the building seeing there were no signs inside and walking back. Also the CCTV of them having a 3-4 minute chat which is where he was verbally told the code. He also signed on site and off site correctly as a visitor.

[majik]

To help everyone out the "Code" in question is a 4-6 digit code to open a roller shutter door, that is all it does and most if not all customers have there own code mine was no different to a normal customer.

 

I worked for a storage company so as i said this code would open a large roller shutter thats it, it enables customers 24 hour access to there units etc no access to anywhere else or individual units just the main roller shutter.

 

My partner entered the building during the day, surely if he was going to do it against the companies wishes/without there consent he would do it out of working hours and would not have spokent to the staff on site and told them what he was doing first ?

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

It seems that allegation 4 is the main one they are using to justify sacking you.

 

When you say "secondary contact" does this give your partner the right to use your access code ? what does it state in the rules ?

 

Also you say he "signed in" are there rules for visitors ?

 

Did they only notify you of allegation 4 by email ? was there a phone call or any other means of contact ? if it was just email it will be stamped with the date and time you received it.

 

Regards

[majik]

Yeah it was just email that i was notified only

 

I know that allegation 4 is the only reason for my dismissal but no evidence has been provided other than infomation that has been witheld from me, If a witness statement exsists why cant i see it !

How can i be expected to defend myself if they would provide any evidence to prove there story.

 

Anyone visiting units/store must sign in which my partner did. Secondary contact just provides an alternative contact however the issue is i did not give him the code and they have not been able to provide anything to say otherwise, are they really going to stand up at an ET and say that they carried out a fair investigation that involved them refusing to release any evidence relating to the only reason i was sacked ?

 

I have now checked and i was given 24 hours notice that it would be discussed however it was never actually discussed, I was asked a question about it, i answered and handed my partner witness statement over the meeting was adjurned for 30 minutes, It then restarted and i was told i was lying. That cannot be classed as a discussion surely. 1 question and as i earlier mentioned it is acknowledged in the minutes that it is not part of the investigation and as they have confirmed my partner did no wrong what is the issue !

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Have you requested in writing to see the evidence for allegation 4 ? what was the answer you got if any ? why did they refuse to show you it ?

 

They will argue that your partner should not have asked for an access code and he should have known this as he is regularily in the store (as you mentioned) even if it is proved that the member of staff gave him it, it is still classed as trespass.

 

You need to be carefull as this will be brought up in the ET and they may pursue seperate charges against your partner.

 

they seem very switched on about the whole code thing, what does it say in your contract or staff handbook ?

 

Regards

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Just reading into allegation 2 , the company van.

 

My partner has had dealings with this in a previous job.

 

What does it state in the employee handbook ? did you use it as a customer or as a member of staff ?

 

from what i understand there are distinctly different rules depending on how you was using it.

 

Regards

[majik]

Yes i have requested to see infomation regarding allegation 4 and i was told if its relevant it will be released, so i can only assume that its not relevant so therfore they have no case.

 

The letter my partner has from the CEO confirms no illegal act took place and garentees that no further action will be taken by the company in relation to the events that day.

 

My partner always asked for a code or key each time he attended site and he did so for the past 12 months. He always came onsite signed in and was then either escorted to the building or given a code or key if needed.

 

Nothing in handbook about codes or contract, they seemed switched on about it as they have no proof for the other 3 allegations and have now admitted that.

 

Employee handbook states that you need to be over 25 for insurance. Was used in a customer capacity but they no longer have CCTV which would prove this, all they have is screenshoots off my partner getting out the passenger side of the company van. Also acknowleged in the minutes that as manger i had ability to use van as i wished and chose who used it, also it was given free to customers as a selling point.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

If you used it as a customer, you could use the receipt for the rental and did you fill out a lease hire form ? this is standard practice when hiring a van. if you have these 2 items then they have no case as you have definte proof you used it as a customer.

 

What else happened that day ? "garentees that no further action will be taken by the company in relation to the events that day" it seems that more happened than just the allegation about the codes ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Lets just say Police were called by my partner and i believe the store in relation to Data Protection issues and Police resolved that in my my/my partners favour.

 

my partner was accussed of being aggresive and violent which was proved to be false by the CCTV and the CEO has admitted this now. This was after the code issue and is not related to the disciplinary/ET at all.

 

If they try to use it the letter from the CEO will confirm that it is resolved.

 

No paperwork but as i was driving i did not complate paperwork, paperwork only filled in for customers for insurance purposes. As i was named on the insurance i did not need to fill it in when i used the van (Either as a customer or drivng it for other customers)

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

From my past experience you have to watch out, the company may not be able to use it , but an individual can.

 

If the alleged aggression was aimed at an individual they may be able to pursue this through a private claim.

 

An ET will ask everything, relationships between staff, aggresive behaviour etc. the best advice i have is to be completely honest as most companies record all phone calls and keep all CCTV footage.

 

At my ET they played back all the phone calls i had made to my employer, this was a shock as i wasnt aware they had done this.

 

Can you not sue them for the alleged data protection issues ? what were they ?

 

Remember everything is relevant in an ET

 

Hope this is helping ?

 

Cant stand to see companies treating there staff badly and getting away with it.

 

Regards

[majik]

My partner is currently suing them due to Data Protection issues namely the illegal use of CCTV. They are not registered with the ICO to use it. (Well one of the 4 companies they run is ) He also wants to add that the manager who conducted my investigation was the person continually logging into my personal email account (100% non work related) and as the company sent most infomation to me via email in realtion to my disciplinary he could have deleted infomation i required.

 

My partner showed no aggression at all and was no where near staff, he attended site to request someone to stop accessing my personal (hotmail) email address. he had already made 2 phonecalls regarding this and was told each time it was a mistake and wont happen again.

 

On the third occasion he attended site parked his car and went to go into store, staff on site locked the door and activated the panic alarm, my partner sat outside and called the Police. at no point did he speak to any staff member or attempt to.

 

The CEO letter confirms that after viewing the CCTV no illegal act took place and no action will be taken by the company.

 

They have treated me like dirt and treat all staff differently

 

1 person drove the van under age so uninsured and without authorisation and no action was taken, andother member of staff walked out leaving the main shutter wide open half way through a shift again no action was taken.

 

This is really helping, after looking back at the email it says that the pin code was used without authorisation, it was not, my partner signed in as a visitor and informed the staff member what he was doing so therfore had permission as he was not asked to leave or told he could not do what he asked, this can be proved by CCTV (i hope)

Edited December 11, 2009 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Sounds like you have a good case for data protection, but how did they get the password to log onto your email ?

 

You will probably find that before the ET they will have dealt with the alleged van usage and the leaving the shutter open. this means you will not be able to use that as an example.

 

Even though the ceo has agreed nothing illegal took place , did he consult and does he speak on behalf of the staff at the store ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Was saved on the comp but not auto login in etc so someone had to physically click to log in, which my partner then immedialetly signed out and they immedialetly signed back in etc, cant really claim it to be a mistake.

 

I doubt they would have dealt with the issues, the person who abandoned the store is the same person that says she didn't give my partner the pin code, this happened 10 days after the whole issue and Head Office were well aware, same with the Van issue, its acknowledged in the minutes that management were aware and just stopped in no further action was taken.

 

As i said they dont treat everyone the same.

 

The person my partner was alleged to have been aggresive towards took the minutes to the appeal and also carried out the initial investigation so yes he consulted and he also consulted his own legal team before issuing the letter.

 

Surely the fact that the have provided no evidence to allegation 4 will go against them at a tribunal, im hoping that ACAS deal with it as the breached they own policy to get to where they did, said they were going to do something then didnt, carried out a grievance meeting with the person my grievance was against taking the minutes, My disiplinary took place in a hotel bedroom as the didnt book the meeting room properly

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Was it msn or yahoo etc on the computer ? if it was installed on the computer so it starts up when the pc is logged on, then im afraid to say that they have every right as it is software installed on a company computer. i have dealt with this before as my work accessed my yahoo account, and when i checked it was perfectly legal. as long as the user name and password where filled in then they have done nothing wrong. sorry.

 

The person you was alleged to have been aggresive to, have they confirmed that they will not take it further ? as they can still pursue emotional stress through the courts ?

 

Do you have it in writing that they have refused to give you the evidence for allegation 4 ? was it showed to you in the meeting ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Only thing in writting is in the appeal to the disciplinary where it is stated the witness statement will be released if its relevant.

 

I have not seen any evidence in realtion to allegation 4 only been told and noted in minutes that evidence does exsist.

 

Installed on PC but not on start up, have to actually open the log in page etc. They were requested on 2 occasions before to delete it and said they had it was only when they clearly had not that my partner attended site, there was 3.5 hours between the original request to delete the log in details and stop and when my partner attended site.

 

They cannot claim anything as my partner did not speak to them, unless parking a car can cause stress etc, nearest he got to staff was 20-25 metres and nothing was said from either side. Not sure on the wording of the letter from CEO but i think it says the company or its employees will not take further action, Will need to check tomoz.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Sorry to say that if you have loaded the software onto the company computer then it is there right to access that software, and if the user name and password was allready filled in then they have done nothing wrong, not fair but true, sorry.

 

If there was no threatining behaviour towards staff then why was the panic alarm pushed ?

 

Did you speak to anyone there on the day ? was anything said that could be taken as threatining ?

 

Regards

[majik]

First instance in the morning when the code was used there was a 4 minute conversation with the female staff member very pleasant etc when he was given the code.

 

The second instance (data protection issue) nothing was said to any member of staff, he parked his car and as he did so the staff locked the door and hit panic alarm, my partner then phoned Police and they arrived 30 minutes later, went into store deleted the details from Hotmail and left.

At no point did he speak to any member of staff.

 

Panic alarm was hit for reasons unknown and i believe that is what the CEO means when he said it could have been handled better.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

I hope there was nothing incriminating in your emails, as they have probably downloaded or printed them off !!!!

 

They can use these in a ET as it was installed on there computer!

 

Would need to see this letter from the ceo to clarify further points.

 

Gotta go now chat soon.

 

Regards

[majik]

Nothing bad in the emails

 

Letter from CEO is about my partner not me and makes no reference to me or my disciplinary so would be of little use to me i think.

[mariefab]

From everything you have posted here the Company would need to be suffering from some form of mass insanity to dismiss you for allegation 4.

Not least because you have that letter from the CEO.

 

So, I return to my earlier concern regarding the statement on the appeal letter that they 'upheld allegation 1'.

 

My understanding is that the purpose of an appeal hearing is to decide whether or not to uphold the original dismissal.

Perhaps they have upheld the decision to dismiss based on allegation 1.

 

I sincerely hope that I am wrong, but could you take another look at the appeal letter to see if it's possible that it is so ambiguously phrased that you might have misunderstood it?

[majik]

Hi,

 

Just reading into allegation 2 , the company van.

 

My partner has had dealings with this in a previous job.

 

What does it state in the employee handbook ? did you use it as a customer or as a member of staff ?

 

from what i understand there are distinctly different rules depending on how you was using it.

 

Regards

 

I can confirm that my appeal against this was upheld and my appeal against allegation 1 it was confirmed that there is no proof i have gained. apologises for getting the 2 mixed up