MBNA - say defaulted me but send a default notice???

[nuke em]

Well, bears no relationship to any debt related letter that I know of.

In my humble opinion the Contract method is the only way forward for closure, the CCA route will buy time and may involve different DCA's going forward but the alleged debt doesn't go away, it just means they "shouldn't" be able to enforce it in a court. Of course that doesn't mean that DCA's wont try it on, the Stat demand route for example or their more mundane threats....which seem to keep appearing .. and catching out newbies

 

Challenging the validity of the alleged "contract" in the first place is the future, because if un-rebutted means that everything just goes up in smoke! ie you achieve closure

 

please research on the links earlier on this thread as there are people "left-field" who are successfully using this remedy. you wont find this yet on cag - it is not yet mainstream!

 

Imaging if you could turn their invalid claim into a valid judgment against them for example.. that way you become the creditor! now the boot would be truly on the other foot!

 

its all out there, hidden in plain view

 

peace & enlightenment !

 

n em

[nuke em]

This is a bloody interesting thread, everyone. Its certainly learnt me a thing or two about the 'contract' aspect. Its a side I hadnt considered before.

 

Scales tipped nuke-em.

jed

 

thanks, most people haven't!

[willtheywontthey]

well have to say I can see advantages of both letters - the contract one and the cca request. Will be pondering which route to tak most of the day but have decided I need to send something.

 

so far:

 

1. SARing MBNA (again - they not complied from some months ago) because I need to see their documents.

 

2. cca letter ready to new DCA (they have not had one)

 

3. contract letter ready also (this is the pondering bit - do I send and if so before / same time / after cca letter) to send to new DCA

 

4. SAR to new DCA

 

In the end what I'll probably end up doing is sending them abolutely everything to prove I am serious. Am tempted to also send something to the so-called buyers - further opinions invited!

 

Without anybody falling out I'd be very pleased to hear more of the arguments rearding which document to send and why. IN the end possibly there will be no consensus but at least a good discussion?

[nuke em]

i have used the CCA route for a year or so now because if they don't have a valid agreement as per the CCA then that is grounds for dispute so there is nothing wrong with using the CCA route in the first instance.

 

But that wont mean the alleged debt will go away, the Creditos will just keep passing it/selling to low life DCA's (of course as mentioned before, if they sell it that is good for you) so apart from them selling .. where is the closure?

 

The legality of the Contract gets closure because if it proved that a contract was fraud/ lack of proper disclosure etc then the whole thing is null & void - ie you get closure

 

please look back on the links , you will learn about "Conditional Acceptance" for example where a person can Conditionally accept anything upon proof of claim. This removes controversy ( controversy is the whole reason they have to take you to court)

 

No controversy = nothing a court can rule on

 

Remember Lawyers love controversy , my client says A, yea but my client says B etc etc , also remember games are played on Court!

 

The law of the Courts (without a jury) is Admiralty, and Admiralty law is

a)by consent ( this is important ‘cos you have to consent to it, or NOT as the case maybe)

b)& Honour & Dishonour

So if you end up consenting to their Court , remember to stay in honour, Conditionaly accepting anything they claim subject to proof of their claim is very honourable. And as we all know the creditos can’t provide the proof !!!!!!!!!!! now who is in dishonor ?

Not you!

[teaboy2]

Hi - have read with interest this thread as my OH has recieved a DN dated 12th August with remedy of breach 29th August demanding the whole amount. The DN is a joke as it states that they have already registered a default with credit reference agencies on the actual default notice (which they had on the 31st July!!) and no other DN had been sent which MBNA admit too. My opinion is that they have terminated the credit card agreement by demanding the whole amount and not just asking to remedy the breach by paying the arrears or missed monthly payments per agreement (which I have to say they don't have and have not produced). This DN was the only response to a request for a CCA. They even tried to tell me that they sent a charge off letter which they said is a DN - it is just a threatogram.

 

I have reported their activities to the Credit Fitness Team at the OFT and they have repsonded by wanting further info to investigate. I would urge anyone with these faulty DN's to contact OFT Credit Fitness team - you can e-mail as the more people making them aware, the more they will have to take note of their ridiculous underhand methods. I have been lied to by their staff telling me that the debt has been sold on (before they issued the DN) after many conversations, even the dca they told me they sold it to said it wasn' true!Finally they had to admit that they made a 'mistake' and that it hadn't. Do not take their word for anything being true MBNA are ruthless!

 

I personally take the view and will pursue this that if they are stupid enough to send an invalid DN and ask for the whole debt, then they have terminated the agreement therefore nothing is owed as it is an unlawful recission of contract. It says in my OH's one that they will terminate on or after the date which has now expired (which I may point out did not even give the 'not less than 14 days' required).

 

Written to eveyone in MBNA to complain as well as OFT above, and have finally got a repsonse saying that their complaints team is looking in to it. Meanwhile MBNA account disappeared without trace from credit files. Will update when get response but won't hold my breath!

 

Keep fighting them - I am not stopping until they get what they deserve!

 

Winged piglet

 

i am in the exact situation as your OH is i started my own thread about it (link to thread is in my post on page 2) you should have look at it. i would be very interested to hear more details about your case too, so if you could pm me that would be great.

[blueotter]

there's a lot of us in this situation but lets try and keep it to a thread and out in the open can we.

I've also had a default notice requesting the full amount and its defective,just waiting to see if i get a termination letter as mbna have sent out loads of defective default notices.

[vint1954]

thanks, most people haven't!

Credit agreements are not simple contracts under English Civil Law. A credit agreement is regulated specifically under an act of parliament, hence there are specific ways of moving through the act and the process to acheive your aims.

 

In a contract under english civil law, there are no requirements for prescribed terms, no requirement for the possitioning of terms and no requirement for a signature to be in a prescribed place within a document.

 

However, each to their own and if you wish to try something new, then no one will stop you.

[vint1954]

somebody linked earlier today to the correct updated CCA template - cannot find it. I need nappies I think as am absolutely useless today. I don't think it's the template library one?

 

On separate issue I thought they did not need to supply a 'true' copy of a cca???

The requirement is for the creditor to supply a "True Copy". The debate is surrounding the creditors recent interpretaion of that term. They seem to have taken a big leap in understanding the meaning of that term, where they noew try and send out a typed agreement and not a copy oth the one signed by the debtor. This is ok, if they can prove that the True Copy was actually taken from the origonal agreement. That is also the view of the OFT.

[vint1954]

Great post - MBNA told me my debt (10k - mastercard) has been sold to Hilsden securities/DLC. They have written to me today saying ring now and enclosing a payment options form - which amongst other things asks about employment details/do I own my house etc. Idiots. My letter (or shall I just not bother sending!):

 

I am presuming that having purchased this alleged debt; you have also purchased the history, so I will ask that review all previous correspondence with MBNA for further detail.

 

I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond with you further on this matter.

 

Or:

Ref Account xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear xxxxxxxxx,

 

I was somewhat bemused to receive your letter of xxxxxxxxx 2009, the content of which is noted. No debt to your company is acknowledged.

 

On xxxxxxxxxx 2009 I made a formal request to your client pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. MBNA have failed to comply within the statutory time limit, or at all. In addition, this alleged account was placed in dispute on the xxxxxxxxx 2009. It should not be necessary to have to remind you that the provisions of s.78(6) now apply. These letters are enclosed.

 

In the circumstances, your involvement and threat of legal action would appear to be a breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection and your attention is drawn to this guidance document.

Your attention is also drawn the ICO on Data protection, as passing details on to a third party while an account is in dispute is contrary to the Data Protection Act. I have previously issued letters to MBNA under s10 of this act. You may wish to refresh yourselves of the implications of ignoring the Data Protection Act.

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be considered vexatious and unlawful. The Court's attention will drawn to the above statutory breaches . Furthermore, I reserve the right to bring the conduct of your client to the Court when the issue of costs is being considered.

I would remind you that while this alleged account remains in dispute, that MBNA:

• May not ask for payment against this account.
  
• I am not obliged to offer any payment against this account.
  
• Cannot register any data with a third party.
  
• Cannot take any enforcement action, including registering Defaults.
  
• Cannot pass the account on to a third party for collection.
  
• Cannot sell the account.
  

I trust this out lines the situation and that you will take note of my comments, to avoid any further breaches of the Law, being committed by you. I would suggest that you return this matter to MBNA, for them to resolve and complete their lawful obligations.

 

 

Did MBNA issue you with a DN and a Notice of assignment.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the agreement related to this account. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement, under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

2. A full statement of account.

3. A copy of any other documents referred to in the agreement.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. Please note that under no circumstances should this payment be set aside any alleged debt. If you are unable to supply the documentation requested, this fee should be returned.

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

Please note that I am making a specific request that contact with me is in writing only and I will not deal or discuss this matter over the telephone. I will consider any contact by telephone as harassment and will make an appropriate complaint via my solicitor. Other actions I will consider harassment include (but not limited to):

 

-Threats of ‘home visits’ (you have absolutely no legal right to attend my home without my express permission)

-Attempts to contact any third parties without my express permission, including but not limited to my employer, neighbours or family

-Repetitive contact by post

-Any type of ‘postcard’ or similar sent without envelope

 

Please be aware, I have recently claimed (and won) a case for harassment against a company who breached the above requests.

 

I am presuming your company adheres to the OFTs Guidance on Debt Collection, together with those issued by the CSA.

 

I note your inclusion of a payment options form, which I have returned as I do not consider any of the questions on that form of direct relevance to you.

vint

[vint1954]

well have to say I can see advantages of both letters - the contract one and the cca request. Will be pondering which route to tak most of the day but have decided I need to send something.

 

so far:

 

1. SARing MBNA (again - they not complied from some months ago) because I need to see their documents.

 

2. cca letter ready to new DCA (they have not had one)

 

3. contract letter ready also (this is the pondering bit - do I send and if so before / same time / after cca letter) to send to new DCA

 

4. SAR to new DCA

 

In the end what I'll probably end up doing is sending them abolutely everything to prove I am serious. Am tempted to also send something to the so-called buyers - further opinions invited!

 

Without anybody falling out I'd be very pleased to hear more of the arguments rearding which document to send and why. IN the end possibly there will be no consensus but at least a good discussion?

At the end of the day, you have to weigh up the advice on this thread and the forum. The decission must be yours. At the ned of the day, this is a self help forum, that draws on the experience of many, and the knowledge of some.

Edited September 30, 2009 by vint1954

[vint1954]

there's a lot of us in this situation but lets try and keep it to a thread and out in the open can we.

I've also had a default notice requesting the full amount and its defective,just waiting to see if i get a termination letter as mbna have sent out loads of defective default notices.

Agreed blueotter. Advice by PM is frowned on, as it does not give others a chance to comment, plus any benefits cannot be used by all.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi,

There’s already been quite a lively discussion on the principles behind this type of contract letter here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/211974-what-do-when-debt-2.html

Ultimately as Vint says this is a self help forum and the decision on how to proceed is your own.

I’m very open minded and any workable method of redressing the balance with the greedy banks and DCA’s would be welcomed by me.

Unfortunately, with all due respect I’ve not been able to find anything yet that proves this system to work..no successful threads, case law or authorative articles.

If anyone can provide any such evidence I’d be most interested to read it.

 

One of the few things I could find is that the contract letter in post 5 is a slight amendment of one of a package of alternative Debt Clearing Methods originating in the USA, and on sale on Ebay for a few pounds. In the same section you can get a seventh daughter of a seventh daughter witch to cast a spell to "magick" away your debts (Paypal and Credit Cards accepted) ( I kid you not! )

 

Interesting, exploratory, controversial discussion is healthy and I defend anyone’s right to state their views. Many boundaries have been pushed forward by CAG in this way.

However, if they are still in the realms of opinion, speculation or theory then I believe this should be made absolutely clear.

I do not feel that they should be stated as fact to people who come to CAG looking for help.

To do so makes them little more than unwitting guinea pigs to the unsubstantiated beliefs of others, and can ultimately cost them dearly.

 

As Vint outlines above, there are tried, tested and proven methods to dealing with your debts, methods which are well documented, have the backup of case law and are recommended throughout CAG. They don’t always work, for various reasons, every case and judge is different, but they’re the best options we have at the moment.

 

But that’s just MY opinion

 

Elsa x

Edited September 30, 2009 by Undercover-Elsa
dusting and tidying :-)

[teaboy2]

it appears as though i have been misunderstood. i had actually asked winged piglet if she could send me more details. details that she may prefer not to post in public, and not to give advice with regards to my own situation. So i in no way asked, requested or offered to receive/give advice by pm.

 

that a side, i will point out that there is alot of people on here that do offer advice through PM in order to help one an other with there situations. i understand it is more helpful to us and other users if they post in the threads, but thats not always the case as threads can become confusing and some what misleading with regards to the threads actual subject matter. truth is alot prefer to keep some details out of public threads. thats why i offered winged piglet the chance to PM me a more detailed account of her situation and to view my own thread of a similar situation. weather she were to choose to PM or post a more detailed account in this thread or in my own thread would be her choice, but atleast the choice was offered to her. alot of people who prefer not to go into details in public threads, will lose out on helpful advice if they are not offered the option of dicussing their situation or comparing situations by PM or a thread closer matching their situation. which could ultimately lead to losing their case or confusion due to the large amount of varying advice posted in the threads, where alot of the advice posted is based more on opinion of right or wrong, than on actual law.

 

i know personally i prefer to follow advice given that is based on case law and legal obligations (which i can then read more into before taking any action) than someones own personal definition of law. which in alot of cases are based on a misinterpretation of law that is passed on from person to persons in threads based purely on the assumption the original advisors advice is correct and legally sound.

 

i hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

[Pinky69]

Whatever your thinking, PMs are not encouraged and the forums are the place for advice so we can all share each others experiences. There is no evidence that a lot of advice is given in PMs, which defeats the purpose of the forums.

[nuke em]

Credit agreements are not simple contracts under English Civil Law. A credit agreement is regulated specifically under an act of parliament, hence there are specific ways of moving through the act and the process to acheive your aims.

 

In a contract under english civil law, there are no requirements for prescribed terms, no requirement for the possitioning of terms and no requirement for a signature to be in a prescribed place within a document...but there is a requirement for:

 

A copy of the contract signed by both parties and therefore binding both parties

Full disclosure of all the material facts

A Meeting of the minds

Consideration by both parties

Performance by both parties

 

Now how many so called credit card/Mortgage/loan agreement ( CONTRACT ) has any of the above??

 

 

 

However, each to their own and if you wish to try something new, then no one will stop you.

see above

[vint1954]

it appears as though i have been misunderstood. i had actually asked winged piglet if she could send me more details. details that she may prefer not to post in public, and not to give advice with regards to my own situation. So i in no way asked, requested or offered to receive/give advice by pm.

 

that a side, i will point out that there is alot of people on here that do offer advice through PM in order to help one an other with there situations. i understand it is more helpful to us and other users if they post in the threads, but thats not always the case as threads can become confusing and some what misleading with regards to the threads actual subject matter. truth is alot prefer to keep some details out of public threads. thats why i offered winged piglet the chance to PM me a more detailed account of her situation and to view my own thread of a similar situation. weather she were to choose to PM or post a more detailed account in this thread or in my own thread would be her choice, but atleast the choice was offered to her. alot of people who prefer not to go into details in public threads, will lose out on helpful advice if they are not offered the option of dicussing their situation or comparing situations by PM or a thread closer matching their situation. which could ultimately lead to losing their case or confusion due to the large amount of varying advice posted in the threads, where alot of the advice posted is based more on opinion of right or wrong, than on actual law.

 

i know personally i prefer to follow advice given that is based on case law and legal obligations (which i can then read more into before taking any action) than someones own personal definition of law. which in alot of cases are based on a misinterpretation of law that is passed on from person to persons in threads based purely on the assumption the original advisors advice is correct and legally sound.

 

Understood teaboy, but I think that the parragraph above, kind of reinforces the point. If someone gives advice on open forum, it can be challenged by others, avoiding a possible disaster.

If there are personal details that need to be kept back, then the poster must do that.

One other reason that was explained to me by the site team, for always posting on open forum, was that the wrong advice could be offered in PM's by those with a vested interest in seeing the site or individuals fail. Thankfully this is very rare, but folks from the other side of the tracks do post on here, and should they PM misleading advice, then the outcome is unfair in the extreme.

It is just for everyones protection and the benefit of all, that the site team discourage PM advice. It's not personal and I suspect most of us make the mistake at some point. I did.

 

i hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

No misunderstanding teaboy, just helpful advice.

[nuke em]

Hi,

There’s already been quite a lively discussion on the principles behind this type of contract letter here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/211974-what-do-when-debt-2.html true i was involved with that one, too many Lawyers i'm afraid - ....they are not part of the remedy

 

Ultimately as Vint says this is a self help forum and the decision on how to proceed is your own. Very true, don't believe what anyone says on here, do your own research, that's what i did.

 

I’m very open minded and any workable method of redressing the balance with the greedy banks and DCA’s would be welcomed by me. i hope you are and are not an undercover agent ...Undercover Elsa

Unfortunately, with all due respect I’ve not been able to find anything yet that proves this system to work..no successful threads, case law or authorative articles.

If anyone can provide any such evidence I’d be most interested to read it.

Follow the earlier links in this thread, then links & articles etc from there will show you the path you need to seek out

 

One of the few things I could find is that the contract letter in post 5 is a slight amendment of one of a package of alternative Debt Clearing Methods originating in the USA, and on sale on Ebay for a few pounds. In the same section you can get a seventh daughter of a seventh daughter witch to cast a spell to "magick" away your debts (Paypal and Credit Cards accepted) ( I kid you not! ) oh purleese , dont demean what you don't (yet) understand , this has nothing to do with anything you will find an auction site....

 

You might want to research the Bills of Exchange Act for example !

 

Interesting, exploratory, controversial discussion is healthy and I defend anyone’s right to state their views. Many boundaries have been pushed forward by CAG in this way.

However, if they are still in the realms of opinion, speculation or theory then I believe this should be made absolutely clear. It all is , even for those who have been successful in finding a solution

I do not feel that they should be stated as fact to people who come to CAG looking for help. is this because now CAG is mainstream?, the only place of

knowledge? is the giver of all truth & light? if it is not on CAG it's not correct? etc etc

To do so makes them little more than unwitting guinea pigs to the unsubstantiated beliefs of others, and can ultimately cost them dearly. you may have a point here, but hasn't CAG also been "guility" of this... my point is we are are all learning , all trying to get to the truth , to seek out remmedy for our situations.

 

As Vint outlines above, there are tried, tested and proven methods to dealing ( & Closing out?) with your debts, methods which are well documented, have the backup of case law and are recommended throughout CAG. ( how many have had ultimate closure, not many i think .. many alleged "debts" are now considered uneconomical to chase or have being sold on or are statute barred.. so the circle doesnt break, the alleged debt is still hanging out there, its true they cant enforce it, (funny though why do they keep trying?) because of the CCA route (yet) but is has not gone away) They don’t always work, for various reasons, every case and judge is different, but they’re the best options we have at the moment. i think not, if you challenge the validity of the contract i.e. & it is shown to be a fraud in factum , then it does GOES AWAY because it is fraud and that is covered under the Fraud Act of 2006

 

But that’s just MY opinion

 

Elsa x

 

& Those edits are just my opinion

[teaboy2]

pinky69 i was not requesting or offering to give advice via the use of PM i simiply requested winged piglet send me more details about her case. So i no way was i offering to advise winged piglet or asking for advice.

 

I was also in my argument simiply stating that not everyone will feel comfortable about posting certain details on an public thread regardless of weather it would help others or not, and it is the choice of the individual weather they do or not. Plus there is evidence in alot of threads i have read, where people have offered to give one to one advice or help via PM's. am not implying that they shouldnt post on the threads just that simply they should be given the option to PM people if they wish to request more details or more specfic advice and that there is no harm in doing so. I also implied how easy it is for poeple to become confused in threads due to the amount of different advice that may have been given which may not be correct or legally sound. yes the same can be said about advice given by PM. but am not implying advice thats been given in PM's should be seen as correct or legally sound either, but that the option should be there if that is what people prefer, so they can then make their own decision based on what theyve read on the threads and from the advice in PM's if they requested it and only if they requested it.

 

threads are and will always be helpful, but thats doesnt mean we should encourage people not to PM each other for more advice, or to explain in more detail, like i had asked, only due to winged piglets situation being very similar to my own. so as such i have a personal interest in such cases. weather winged piglet choose to post in the thread of mine, in which i provided a link for, or PM'd me privately is up to winged piglet.

 

i did make it clear in my last post that i had simply been misunderstood.

[vint1954]

see above

All irelevant to a Credit agreement.

[teaboy2]

hi vint

 

i didnt see your recent post so you must have posted it while i was typing my last one.

 

i understand. i just wanted to make it clear so i wasnt misunderstood as it appeared i had been. your right about bad advice being given in pm aswell, i had failed to be clear about that in post 53, but i was hopefully clearer about it in my last post.

[vint1954]

I think that we all need to agree to disagree.

 

I did check the earlier links out. Maybe the link is incorrect, but all I could see was a site praising pot and bashing the Police.

 

Uniform contracts are ok for country to country dealings, but if you make a contract in this country, it is under english civil law. A credit agreement is regulated by an act of parliament.

 

None of this argument is helping the original poster, make up their mind what to do next and they now seem to have run for the hills.

 

If the argument is to continue, I suggest a dedicated thread.

[nuke em]

I think that we all need to agree to disagree. ok

 

I did check the earlier links out. Maybe the link is incorrect, but all I could see was a site praising pot and bashing the Police. u got the wrong link methinks

 

Uniform contracts are ok for country to country dealings, but if you make a contract in this country, it is under english civil law. A credit agreement is regulated by an act of parliament. and if it is based on a Fraud?? does english law cover that ?

 

None of this argument is helping the original poster, True make up their mind what to do next and they now seem to have run for the hills.

 

If the argument is to continue, I suggest a dedicated thread.

 

i agree, we're done here, people must do their own research!

Edited September 30, 2009 by nuke em

[willtheywontthey]

Hi all - I can actually see benefits of both viewpoints and will be trying cca first and then the contract route if needs be. It's true though that the cca route is really a delaing tactic so will be sending contract letter to one or two to test reactions

 

Thanks for both viewpoints.

[Winged Piglet]

Mini-update - have received a copy of the agreement only over a month late -they must have dug very deep to find this but am not worried. It's signed by OH but not by MBNA - that space is blank - as they've sent a copy and not just a 'true copy' - how come it isn't signed by them too then? Are they going to quickly sign it if they wanted to bring court action then - don't think that would look very favourable with any DJ do you - two dates several years apart? And MBNA can't sign it as they were not the original card provider.The Consumer Credit Act's definition of an executed agreement is that it must be signed by both the debtor and the creditor. Anyway looks a bit of a lash-together but is not a serious issue as the real issue is the DN.

In the DN it states that 'on or after the date shown, your account will be closed and your credit agreement terminated'. My interpretation is that they have clearly stated that the agreement has been terminated as the date for remedy has now passed. ALSO they ask for the whole amount of the outstanding balance therefore the agreement and it's terms i.e monthly payments has been terminated and as they are asking for the whole 'outstanding balance' which if the agreement was still in force, would only be asking for the arrears/or amount of missed payments.

NB I do not pm to anyone - no reflection on you teaboy2 at all but there have been cases that 'the others' like to use this as a tactic to gain personal info - saddos that they are. Sorry but I cannot oblige.

[teaboy2]

No problem winged piglet. i completely understand what you mean as i know just how low these low life **** can go, and try to fool you into thinking they just someone else whos had similar issues here n the forums is one their tactics. so i dont believe in sharing personal infromation or requesting such infomation either. but i do believe that people should not be discourage from asking for more details on an issue (if there is any) or asking for further or more clarity on advice that has already been posted on a thread by PM.

 

i am only interested in extra details like what you posted above and what else you may have done to try resolve the issue. because it seems like they done exactly the same to your OH as they have done to me, saying "agreement will be terminated on or after the date shown" and asking for full amount instead of arrears, not to mention selling the debt prior to issuing the so called DN. so am also interested in knowing weather you had recieved the full 14 days from the date you recieved the DN to the date shown on the DN as the deadline for payment, and taking into account the postage by another postal company other than royal mail is deemed as second class post in which 4 working days most be allowed form the date of postage for the DN to be served (2 days if royal mail first class). i would also be interested to know if your DN was exactly the same as the one i recieved, which i posted in my own thread in terms of how they are worded etc. Also was your credit card originally with Abbey? as mine was.

Edited October 1, 2009 by teaboy2