repo date 21/09/2009

[enoughisenough]

Micko

one question. Have you been to court on a repo before?

[enoughisenough]

Micko

 

just urging caution here. A lot is going to depend on the District Judge lottery here. You should proceed as if all your arguments and evidence will be heard but there's no gaurantee that they will be. Too many judges take the lender at face value and the debtor at anything but. They operate on the assumption that you have put yourself in this position and it's a case of what are you going to do to put it right. Trust me on this. If you can find anything wrong with their claim this is the best line of attack, that the claim is falsely premised.

[micko19]

Micko

one question. Have you been to court on a repo before?

 

Been i court 3 times but never a repo ironically the last mortgage was completed the day before the repo hearing from another secured lender. So the deal I am in now was signed under hell of a lot of pressure. Redstone have been quite wise with this one and waivered all the admin charges etc. However i will go throught the payment dates and bank statements for a double check.

 

I know you are right and the judges tend to rubber stamp these things in 20 minutes. MY wife will be long gone and the house is already nearly empty, so I am prepared. Ialso know that much of my problems were of my own making. AT the top of the bubble I had £44,000 equity this was no where near enough to survive this tumble.

 

I am going to chase up the huddersfield help group that was set up to reduce repo's in the area. I will go with their advice and keep pushing the police and the FOS.

 

I have a mindset for being 10X better mannered than I am on building sites and forums LOL when in court. I will take it on the chin if I am not allowed to present my objections but may request transcripts at a later date. I have always come out on top in courts even against the barrister that ge sent when I had them up for section 15 DPA. For 40 minutes the judge was 100% behind the barrister I gave my evidence in 10 minutes and the judge turned to the barrister and told him he could not dismiss the case.. My attitude is to bring a happy face with me regardless of the outcomes...

 

There are some other issues.

1. Countrywide conveyancers do not have a signed copy of the offer on file as I got my file through rights of possession and their offer document is unsigned.

2. The offer itself has a covering letter that is signed by a Beacon Home Loans rep and our signatures are on the 5th or 6th page with no cosigning from Redstone..

 

I do believe that I have very good evidence that MCOB rules were entirely ignored and documents falsified in an effort to cover this.

 

Again it is great to just explain things on here. I know lots of people who have been stitched well up in courts and the most important thing is that I fight as best I can... but not allow myself to become bitter about it ...I have seen this happen to others and they get eaten by it....

 

cheers

 

micko

[micko19]

I have official court documents now and am wondering if there would be any benefits to me of trying to delaying the repossession.

 

1. I cannot see work coming back until next year.

2. If my MCOB and other claims even succeeded I would still be mounting more debt.

3. I am on income support at the moment and cannot really make any sensible offers.

 

Would it be my resposibility to inform the court that I have made complaints to the FOS and the Police but do not want an increasing debt through repo delay...

 

Can Redstone sell my property for half its value and sue me for the shortfall. I really could do with some advice on this and will be making lots of phone calls tomorrow..

 

micko

[enoughisenough]

Hi I'm posting on the mobile so I'll need to keep this short because typing is a real pain. Apologies in advance for any spelling mistakes. I think that first of all you are as prepared ready and in as good a frame of mind as you are likely to be. I admire your organisation and your stoicism in the face of adversity. You will need to make your own choice here. I don't think that anyone can advise you on your decision but would stress that you will get stiffed royally on legal fees management fees locksmiths impovements marketing and god knows what else. Also the less the equity the more they will hit you. Usually peple assume that possession is the end of the matter. In fact you can be hounded for years. I'd fight as hard as I can on everything you can lay your hands on but this must be down to you.

 

Good luck micko.

[micko19]

I will prepare a defence.... and do i have any rights to legal assistance being on income support ie pro bono???

 

cheers

 

micko

[enoughisenough]

Pro Bono is only offered on referral. You need to get to the Cab asap and get referred to the free representation unit. These guys put in a load of effort on behalf of the underdog. If they didn't care they wouldn't sign up for the fru.

 

You definitely have need of this IMHO. You need someone who knows the routes available to you. It's also the case that the judge is less able as once happened to me to pull fast ones.

 

Ggod luck again.

[micko19]

I have a CAB REP ZELDA already in the LEEDS mONEY ADVICE team I will email her tomorrow see if she knows anything about FRU, CHEERS..I think the huddersfield set up might be sort of the same thing anyway i am phoning them in the morning. and I am not using a mobile and have no excuses for my writing lol

 

micko

[micko19]

does anyone have or can refer me do a decent cpr request that covers assignment and proof deed ie all the things typically queried by these 3 card trick securitization companies.

 

I would also need to request all the email, handwritten/ telephone converstaions between Beacon and the IFA. The emails I have... show that the search document for suitable products was done with the use of a crystal ball... as the further advance is included even though it was not requested untill 2 weeks after 2/11/2007.

 

I think I will need the police to help me prove that what i have... is worthy of a fraud investigation...In the event of a police fob off I will go directly to my MP hopefully with a bit of help from Dougal(wording) insisting that these criminal activities be investigated as is my right in law..

 

The only thing I can do with FOS is request fast track with repo looming and for a written commitment to investigate.

 

I will request the additional time for a response from the police and the FOS even an extra month might get a commitment to investigate which may put the brakes on the repo...

 

The falsified search criteria is surely tantamount to gross misrepresentation and a completely miss sold product making the contract void and a right to recision should be available....

 

My hope is the court might give me the time to get responses from these very important sources. I also have a 25 year solid working history in my favour.

 

micko

[jansus]

Have you actually thought about putting the house on the market yourself and asking the court to let you stay there while it is on the market?

 

this may give you a couple of advantages - buy soem time to investigate the fraud and possible mis- selling of the mortgage.

 

If you receive and offer but the re-possession continues and they sell for less then you will have good evidence about the lender not gaining a fair price for the property.

 

You will have more control over the costs involved in selling.

 

The main reason I am suggesting this is at the moment your defence will be based on legal arguments rather than your ability to pay so you are entirely at the courts mercy.

 

just a thought

[micko19]

Hi jansus and thanks for looking in.... what you say certainly sounds reasonable but can they stop me doing it because I have negative equity albeit only small I think ....

 

cheers

 

micko

[jansus]

in theory yes - and you do have to get their permission to sell for less than the debt - but they can give that permission. IF you had a reasonable lender they would realise that you are still MUCH more likely to sell while the house is occupied and not sold at auction so losses would be at a minimum. Also if they refused permission you could use this against them at a later date. Also if they agreed for the sale to go ahead you would be in control of all the costs associated withe the sale which would be preferable.

 

I am not saying you can not pursue the other angles just trying to think of buying time.

[jansus]

"You may be able to sell your house with permission from your lender. You will need their agreement as they can stop a sale going through if the sale price will not cover the outstanding mortgage. You will need to persuade them that you have obtained the best possible price for the property. Point out that if the house was sold by your lender they would be likely to get a much lower price as the property would be empty and could fall into disrepair.

The Mortgage Conduct of Business Rules say that a lender must “deal fairly” with anyone in arrears. It also says the lender must: “give consideration to the customer being allowed to remain in possession to effect a sale”. This means that if you cannot afford to stay in the house, the lender must look seriously at allowing you to sell the house yourself whilst you are still living there.

If your lender refuses to let you sell the house it is possible to apply to the county court for an order for sale under the Trusts of Land & Appointment of Trustees Act 1996. The court can order a sale on whatever terms it thinks are reasonable, even if your lender objects.

In some circumstances you can use Palk v Mortgage Services which is a case where the lender was ordered to sell the property after repossession rather than rent it out indefinitely. This was because the rent would not have covered the interest being added to the mortgage so the debt was still growing.

In the Halifax v Barrett case the court let the borrowers sell their house for the “best possible price” even though the Halifax refused permission for the sale. The borrowers were also allowed to take the sale costs out of the sale proceeds before the money went to the lender.

• Talk to your lender about selling your home yourself.
  
• You may have to prove to your lender that sale is the last resort and the sale is in everyone’s financial interest.
  
• Provide your lender with full information about your financial circumstances.
  
• You will need evidence from several independent estate agents that you have found the best sale price for your home.
  
• The lender may ask you to sign an extra agreement saying how you will repay the shortfall debt.
  
• Consider handing the keys in and making an arrangement to clear the shortfall once the house is sold by your lender. This is only an option if you do not want a new mortgage in the near future as your details will be on the Mortgage Possession s Register for six years.
  
• You will also have a problem with being rehoused by the council as they could treat you as having made yourself homeless voluntarily.
  
• Make sure you keep any valuations from estate agents and keep adverts for sale of similar properties in your area in case there is a dispute in the future over the price for which the lender sold the property.
  
• You will still be liable for the regular mortgage payments until the house is sold. You will also be liable for interest charges, costs for estate agents, legal fees, repairs and insuring the building. "
  

[jansus]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/repossessions/191027-were-you-mis-sold.html

[jansus]

also a couple of other things, Ell-enn is your expert on the defence document. But this hearing will be about the possession only - they will not be concerned with anything else except maybe you showing evidence that part of the loan is in dispute - and that you are asking for more time to establish that.Any other complaints should be firstly passed to the FOS and possible the police as a first action ( as far as I am aware within my limited experience)

 

That is why I think you should really think hard about how you are going to remain in the property if you are unable to offer some sort of assurance about how you can maintain payments.

[Crapstone]

Hi Micko,

 

Jansus has made a good point. Your priorities have to lie with the purpose of the hearing and making plans for a payment proposal, asking to sell the house yourself or getting an adjournment.

 

Then on to your defence which could include disputed arrears if they have added the charges on. Trying to sell your house could earn more time and Brownie points to have the case adjourned during which time you will also be backing up your defence of misrepresentation or fraud if it's not taken into consideration at the 1st hearing.

 

It's a rock and a hard place. You don't query your mortgage until you get into arrears and only then do you find that you were stitched up by being sold an unsuitable product or there has been some fraudulent activity, by which time it's too late. The judges just want to see it as a simple case of inaffordability instead of what it truly is.

 

You can still carry on your fight whatever the outcome on the day.

 

Community Legal Services may be able to give you some help and pass you on to a solicitor as you seem to fit the criteria. They won't represent you but can draw up a detailed defence and negotiate with your lender. I used them for an eviction order and I can't fault them as they did over and above what was expected and more importantly it was quick.

 

Make use of any free legal helplines you may have with your home or car insurance for specific questions.

 

If you want someone from CAG to go along with you then make use of the Buddy system here. It's always helpful to have someone that has been through it to keep you calm.

 

And take a notebook listing all your points and questions instead of trying to flick through bundles of paperwork.

[Crapstone]

i apologize abjectly for my huffing and puffing which has caused offence. Some of my stuff last night was entirely inappropriate to the the conduct of these threads. Please accept my apologies specially suet. All the entries are so much appreciated and I should have shown more gratitude that all you take the time to contribute.

 

A big apology from a big eedjit

 

micko

 

I see no eedjit, just a person going through hell and a fellow cagger.

[micko19]

Hi everyone and thanks for all the contributions. I have read them all very carefully. I have just come of the phone to the Huddersfield Possesion Court Duty Scheme. They were certainly not over positive or negative and reiterated much of what you guys have said. However they will assist me with the defence and sending me forms by email so we can get the ball rolling quickly, they will accept my scanned docs and halpmake a case for adjournement based around the irregularities of which you are all aware and mentioned the possibility there could be enough to void the loan. All that being said I was advised that the negative equity will make a deal around selling very difficult. The fact that I cannot give an honest assurance of continued payments at the moment will also go against. As you say it is a rock and a hard place. In the event that a barrister looked at my docs and said 60% chance of voiding the loan then yes i would go all the way. If he said the chances were poor I would throw in the towel straight away(and take the long term FOS ROUTE). At the moment I am not going to get that level of advice and will run with the defence srategy offered... they also said they can help with rehousing etc

 

many thanks

 

micko

[micko19]

Small glimmer of good news. Police sent me a letter saying they have forwarded my information to the economic crimes unit who i will hear from shortly. Dougal stand up and take a bow. I know that it does not mean a right lot yet... but it is not the fob off I expected either.

 

thanks

 

micko

[Crapstone]

You've had a busy day but a very constructive one and a step forward.

 

Try Trading Standards as well, as they can advise in depth on contracts and what is void or voidable, even in land law. I'm sure they'd be happy to have a look and relieve the boredom they face daily since Consumer Direct was introduced.

 

I know how you feel as my mortgage is lost in the system along with all the original paperwork. False documents were entered by my broker..enough said..

[micko19]

I have repo coming up 21/9, things pretty grim wife and daughter left me returned up north to ashington.....

The duty solicitors at huddersfield are doing a defence and I have an adjudicator from FOS BEING ASSIGNED FROM 6TH SEP. My forged docs from the IFA have been sent by the police to the EConomic Crime Unit. ....

I hold out no hope whatsoever now on all fronts.

The solicitor and barristers working on my GE stuff don't even know or wil discuss section 18?? and are taking simply forever to process simple claims for secret commisiions and ppi which were laid on a platter for them.

 

Hard not to be cynical but the truth is most legally qualified solicitors/barristers do not understand cca or do not want to help ... and despite the great and truly admireable efforts of all on here the odds are massively stacked against us. LIP GENERALLY MEANS Loser in person if up against a barrister because judges naturally choose the course of least resistance...

 

Please don't take me wrong we should all keep fighting as things may be made better for our children...remember they don't go up chimneys anymore..... change is inevitable and some government at some time will have to challenge not just the banks and money lenders but the complicity from the judiciary.

 

I would freely allow children in schools access to all the documents for my loan... that show how a loan showing 10% actually became 40% and the banks get away with it...

 

I also blame myself for not understanding how corrupt society really is and must take blame myself. every company we deal with on any sort of contract basis should be sent SAR AT LEAST TWICE A YEAR.. and we should audit all transactions because more than 50% of the time they are stealing from us.

 

usual rant rant bla bla...

 

micko

[jansus]

I can appreciate how you feel and think that you are doing all you possibly can - if all fails at least you can feel you have done your best to rectify wrongs to the end. At least you have some help with the defence and you must explain to the FOS as soon as you can how urgent your case is.

Really sorry you are having to cope with this on your own - but all of this must put tremendous pressure on an family life - and that is what I dont think the government or the lenders truly appreciate.

 

The house is bricks and mortar and when push comes to shove if there is negative equity they will not be able get money out of you that you dont have. Well not at the moment anyway.

 

Are you ok for accomodation if it does not go your way?

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Micko!

 

All true, sadly.

 

All we can do is keep fighting these grasping feckers and, one day, we may gradually help to break the back of the corrupt triangle that is formed by our banks, politicians and judiciary.

 

The banks and politicians have been weakened, that just leaves number three.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[enoughisenough]

Micko

 

your despondency and lack of faith in the legal system are well understood. The slippiest and the best barristers are snapped up by city law firms because they have dubious morality and like the greed. When it is said that the courts are a lottery this is true. I have been in court twice recently. The first was wilfully ignorant of the issues raised but in putting up a good fight I got the order I wanted ( not all of it but enough). The second DJ was brilliant. So...

 

Keep the faith and keep heart. You are batting on a strong wicket albeit you won't be able to pay. If you could they'd be running for the hills. Try and get some evidence together or your job apps and prospects and contact whoever is in charge of crossrail in London. The work has already started!

 

Best EiE.

[enoughisenough]

BRW just because you're right doesn't mean I'm wrong!

 

glad to see you back!