is this legal

[jamesbond]

i have just been reviewing my mums natwest account with her...she had 14 months of a loan left to pay and exceeded her 500 pound overdraft by 220.21...total od standing at 720.21...

they called her in to the branch to sort it out and informed they could readjust the figures to sort things out for her she agreed as she thought it best..

i will now state the figures from the loan sheet

amount of credit 720.21...cash loan for refinance debt this bank

repayment of exsisting loan 12029.79

insurance loan 3134.00

total credit 15884.00

interest 4129.60

admin fee 0

total payable 20013.60...

now look at this...she was missold insurance she was unaware of...

and basically the cost of sorting out 720.21 o/draft is costing her an extra....wait for it...

7263.60 including insurance. :eek: :mad: ...is this looking after her interests???

[orfoster]

hmmm doens't seem right to me but you will need to ask other people, perhaps a Mod can help?

[barracad]

I don't think there is anything illegal about it unless you are suggesting some fraud was commited or there is some other information you haven't given us.

 

However, some or this may be unlawful but it is difficult to say without further information. If the £720.21 overdraft was made up either partially or completely from charges then these would be unlawful, which may put questions over the rest of the loan.

 

Also you haven't advised how you have come to the conclusion that she was mis-sold insurance.

[jamesbond]

she was not informed of the insurance in its entirety,does not require insurance as she gets paid if off work ,so if it had been explained fully she would have realised it was an unrequired policy and declined its need, and was quoted the loan figures including the ppi and not being fully compliant with bank issues and insurance costs proceeded unknowingly...

there are enough issues regarding ppinsurance abounding most debt boards and cab boards to make your own mind up about this issue.

and clearly aside from all of this how can the bank defend that this is remotely in anyway in my mums interest financially??? a 720.21 debt turning into 7263.60 in extra cost.

[Guest NATTIE]

when was the loan taken out?

[jamesbond]

and to answer your question yes some of these charges on the over draft were made up from bank charges,

[jamesbond]

hi...the first loan or the replacement?

[jamesbond]

surely the banks have a duty of care towards us as customers, how can this be even remotely classed as care?

and who has any ideas as to where to go from here????

[blacksheep1979]

if she has only just had the loan review / overdraft added on then speak nicely to the bank - they may sort it out.

[jamesbond]

wouldnt that be great if you could speak nicely to the bank and get results:razz:

i dont feel that this site would be quite so busy if this were the case??

[blacksheep1979]

You'd be suprised at how many times if you ask nicely for something that has just happened it will get sorted - maybe not something from 3 months ago but last few weeks maybe. However if you go in there shouting the odds and spouting laws etc then all you'll do is get peoples backs up and where once they might have helped you (even when they didn't have to) you now find them hostile and unwilling to help.

 

Does it cost you anything to try and be civil with the bank first? Maybe seeing your sarcastic response to my attempt at help shows where you might have been going wrong when people try to help you.

[dave]

She should be able to get the insurance cancelled. It's her policy, so she can cancel it any time she likes - it's not like Motor insurance which carries a lot of legislation with it.

[jamesbond]

hi to every one who has replied and thanks for the info it really is kind...regarding sarcastic i feel that is a little harsh!! the situation is that this refinancing was carried out over 24 months ago, not yesterday as it may appear..

whilst she may be able to cancel the loan insurance now, and likely get a refund for unused cover,it seems we are missing the point...

the bank have turned her over and in there infinate wisdom have solved a 720 quid overdraft by selling her a loan with insurance that is going to cost a further

£7000 pounds odd more to repay for the sake of 720 quid!!!

my point is duty of care, and putting aside the missale of the insurance and the fact the odraft was made up partly from unlawful charges in the first instance, how can anyone in there right mind consider that this is any way just!!

i wonder if the 2006 finance act that is due in sept i believe? will make this loan unlawful or unjustifiable? perhaps bringing it in front of a judge as the new act will permit them to make a decision on its merits would be worth considering?

[blacksheep1979]

how can anyone in there right mind consider that this is any way just

 

Your problem is your mother accepted it and unless she is mentally handicapped (no offense meant) then you don't have a leg to stand on. If she agreed to paying back £x for having the £720 added to her loan then the long and short is she agreed to it. This would be the same as if you bought a car that was worth £2000 for £20000 - if two years later you went back and said 'hold on a min this car aint worth that much' you wouldn't get very far (and this does kinda happen with people getting cars through the likes of yes with 30% apr).

 

Its really harsh and I feel for you/your mother but she did agree to it and at the end of the day you may be able to cancel your insurance but I doubt you will be able to cancel/rearange the laon.

[blacksheep1979]

I think you may have your figures somewhat wrong

 

repayment of exsisting loan 12029.79

insurance loan 3134.00

total credit 15884.00

interest 4129.60

admin fee 0

total payable 20013.60...

 

The interest and everything else is on mostly the original existing loan of £12029 - unless you have agreed to some rediculous rate of interest or it is over 50+years you will never see £4129.60 interest on £720.21 that would be an interest rate of 100% for over five years, or a more realistic interest rate of 10% for 60 years.

[jamesbond]

unfortuantely its an attitude like that which allows the banks to continue these unlawful practices.....not everyone is compliant with the laws and actions of what is and what is not legal or unlawful regarding bank charges ..perhaps you may have made no mistakes in your life and not had reason to question afterwards what you have done!! sadly for both me and my mum we are only human and due to this have made mistakes as have so many others on here and been misled by banks and other bodies you are made to believe are trustworthy.

[Sophie-Jane]

It seems that your mum could of been mis sold this, It may of been that she did not understand what they intended to do.

 

Is it not this way -

 

She had an existing loan of £12029.79

And an Overdraft of 720.21

 

It seems, But I'm not an expert, she then got a Loan for £12750

 

Then

 

insurance loan 3134.00

total credit 15884.00

interest 4129.60

admin fee 0

total payable 20013.60...

 

So basically, She has been sold a new policy, and starting off again with payments

 

It would of been cheaper to get a loan for £1000, pay it off a year - would'nt It

 

Is this what they call a consolidated Loan?

[jamesbond]

thank you for your reply sophie jane...that is my point exactly!!

the loan they consolidated was in its final 15 months of repayments, so as you are aware that is when you start reducing the actual loan payments as you pay the interest first on most loans and the capital borrowed last....

[blacksheep1979]

unfortuantely its an attitude like that which allows the banks to continue these unlawful practices.....not everyone is compliant with the laws and actions of what is and what is not legal or unlawful regarding bank charges ..perhaps you may have made no mistakes in your life and not had reason to question afterwards what you have done!! sadly for both me and my mum we are only human and due to this have made mistakes as have so many others on here and been misled by banks and other bodies you are made to believe are trustworthy.

Selling a loan is not unlawful, and my attitude is such that I read what I sign before I start paying for it - it is not my way that has landed you here it is the fact that even after being explained the loan and having it laid before her your mother signed it.

 

You say you were mislead by the bank, yet in an earlier post you said that your mother had 'all figures quoted to her' so how is this mislead - she was told what she was borrowing, was told how much she was to pay each month and more than likely how much she would pay in total.

 

The whole point of this is that surely she was given the 12k again (if it was a new loan) or they are sumarising how the loan now is, slightly updating the interest and insurance?

[Sophie-Jane]

On your mums account, has she had Charges, if so, She could claim that back, and as the loan was taken on because charges had made her OD, then I think (please advise) that she Could challange the validity of this consolidated loan

[jamesbond]

"Selling a loan is not unlawful, and my attitude is such that I read what I sign before I start paying for it"

thanks for your advice it is most helpful...

surely if this is the case we should continue to pay our bank charges as we have signed and agree with it??

[jamesbond]

Your problem is your mother accepted it and unless she is mentally handicapped (no offense meant) then you don't have a leg to stand on. If she agreed to paying back £x for having the £720 added to her loan then the long and short is she agreed to it.

surely if this is the case we should continue to pay our bank charges as we have signed and agree with it??

[blacksheep1979]

A loan agreement with a designated interest rate is different than contractual obligations that relate to bank charges - in the contract with your bank regarding your account you agree to pay all costs that they may incur due to missmanagement of your account ie bounced cheques etc, it is the fact that they will not give their costs that we can claim back what they have been charging us.

 

Now your mother is paying interest as a fee for a service it is a completely different matter. If you cannot understand these differences you will stand little to no chance against the bank.

[annie100]

i fail to see where you are coming from on this blacksheep...the fact that bankcharges are applied unlawfully does not stop the banks from making these charges...as is the case with being missold protected payment insurance policies, they were sold to the consumer without the full terms and conditions of the policy being explained to the consumer and have since under the guidance of the oft have been compelled to introduce a customer care proceedure to follow when selling ppi to ensure customers are made aware of this policy...

given also that this loan was also arranged to amend an excessive over draft position which was caused either partially or fully by unlawful charges i am unable to see where any advice you have given to assist these people on the forum is in any way beneficial. surely this exceptionally good site is to assist in helping these people who have been put in these awful positions to overcome and challenge these dubious agreements?

[annie100]

i fail to see where you are coming from on this blacksheep...the fact that bankcharges are applied unlawfully does not stop the banks from making these charges...as is the case with being missold protected payment insurance policies, they were sold to the consumer without the full terms and conditions of the policy being explained to the consumer and have since under the guidance of the oft have been compelled to introduce a customer care proceedure to follow when selling ppi to ensure customers are made aware of this policy...

given also that this loan was also arranged to amend an excessive over draft position which was caused either partially or fully by unlawful charges i am unable to see where any advice you have given to assist these people on the forum is in any way beneficial. surely this exceptionally good site is to assist in helping these people who have been put in these awful positions to overcome and challenge these dubious agreements?:-|