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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.    
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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Barclays Capital - Rate swaps.


grange1971
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Hi All

 

Thank God it wasn't just me that has been duped by Barclays Capital and its IRS deal. We have just sent in our offical complaint to BarCap and are now waiting to see what happens.

Their big selling point to us on this IRS was the fixed rate of 5.63%, but they never explained the real rate we would pay would be nearer 8%.

You would expect a fixed rate to be a fixed rate deal, we have had our payments set at 4 different amounts.

If we have to sell our properties now and clear the outstanding balance we would still owe BarCap 250K as a penalty.

I would be glad of any advice and guidence in this matter

 

Regards

PokerPete

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Hi PokerPete and welcome to CAG.

 

I hope one of the other contributors on this thread will stop by to assist.

 

8-)

We could do with some help from you

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Poker

 

That sounds like a deal they call a 'double-floor' - once the base rate hits a certain point, for every percentage point it goes down further, your rate goes up. Sound about right?

 

If the deal was before 2005 when the FSMA rules were completely removed then you may have a complaint, if it was after that then the rules allow the banks virtually a free hand.

 

Wait and see what happens with your complaint - nothing probably - see if they offer any sort of commercial deal.

 

I know some pretty big businesses who have been hammered by these deals.

 

A2G

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They will probably suggest restructuring the swap, in order to reduce your monthly payments.

 

Bear in mind that when they do this, they fix your debt (its often called a breakage cost) at that point, in doing so you wont get the benefit of the impending base rate rises. This is why they are now so willing to offer 'commercial deals' - if you wait and the rates go up, your swap payment will reduce and the overall value to them reduces.....whereas if they can set the breakage cost now, the overall value to them is the same.

 

The banks should be factoring in a rate rise when they put together their proposals to you, the problem is that there is no way that anyone can actually check their figures, apparently the formula are so complex no-one outside the bank is allowed to know it, in case they get really confused.....

 

Ask them if they have factored in rate rises, where they see base rate in 1 year, 2 year, etc etc, and then its up to you to judge if you agree with them - this is a straighforward casino product, no skill, just pure guesswork.

 

And remember.....as you already have a rate swap product, its a commercial deal, there are absolutely no restrictions on them, if they rip you off again....tough.

 

I cannot think of a less suitable product for anyone, ever.

 

If a broker negotiated your original deal, or an accountant, look for compensation under the FSA scheme.

 

Good luck.

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Thanks for the info A2G.

The original deal was recommended to us by our Relationship Manager from Barclays, it would be a good product for us. Unfortunately we didn't run it by our Financial Adviser, we were advised to either by BarCap.

We will have to see what they say

Cheers Pete

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Tbh, your financial adviser wouldnt have understood it either.

 

Pre-2005 you couldnt be sold these due to their complexity and risk, as a result they were virtually unknown amongst investment professionals outside of certain activities.

 

The banks piled in in 2006 and they were a big seller for them - the so called 'no cost' element was used as a major selling point. No cost to get into, everything you possess to get out of!

 

Let us know how you got on with your meeting, pm if necessary.

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Hi Our Barclays Relationship Manager did much the same. We wound up being 'sold' a complex product we did not even have the chance to read the papers. He just turned up one day and told us to sign them! Long story short we are tied to a complex product that has nothing to do with the original loan, and it is costing us £5,000 PCM the loan was £1.4M at base + 2% in August 2007 We had meeting and was offred a 'restructure' provided we offered more security! They have lost all the records of the deal being offered, and have produced Emails that we did not receive. We do have one saying '...the product you have bought...' we questioned this but never received any reply. It seems there is little we can do from the posts here, but if there are enough of us in the same boat? It worked in Egypt? Impercunious :mad2:Mike

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Barcap are an absolute disgrace and totally conned people into this product and then immedialtyl offloaded the risk into the market - up or down they make 20% margin for absolutely no risk - hence they simply didn't care about the risk .

 

I am gathering a list of people conned in this way

 

- no meeting

- no explanation of risk

- no explanation of breakage costs

- no due dilligence

 

I have threatened to sue and they are running scared. I borrowed £1m and they want £250,000 to break and is costing me £5,000 a month !!!!

 

I really do think they will settle .

 

Let's take collective action and cause maximum publicity,

 

There are 100's in The same boat.

 

If we can get 10 people together then we can share the risk.

 

Anyone interested ?

Edited by Katywilliams
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Good luck . I had mine - they send well trained people who simply tell you no one anticipated this and there is nothing that can be done . To be honest Barclays see this as an opportunity to make more money

 

- they let you break at a profit to them

- they lend you the money at a much higher rate

 

It's a disgrace and unless we take action they just walk over us

Edited by Katywilliams
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Hi Katy

I agree, it is clear that there is strength in numbers. Bob Diamond pontificated in front of the Select Committee arrogantly telling them to stop bashing the banks, and now presides over a company able to get away with paying less than 3% tax on their published profit! I know life is not fair, but I have an absolute faith that for those who chose to receive it, there is a universal grace available to us all. We are with you in this fight for decency, and the very survival of our Children’s Day Nursery business, yes it is a partnership, and we could loose everything we have worked so hard for during the last 15 years, just like so many other posts on this forum. These are not just words, every post here represent the real lives of hundreds of people no longer able to sleep at night.

I am definitely in the ‘silver’ generation! I have an understanding of how social media works, but no idea how to use it! We should empower our children to try to find something to make this injustice ‘viral’ on the web and make Barclays sit up and listen. Our Children’s Day Nursery can not survive the onslaught of a ‘Business Development Manager’ in London and monthly charges of £5,000 to pay for a ‘product’ no one comprehends.

Mike

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You need to read the FSMA Act (2005 version - NOT the 2001 version which is most common on the internet.

 

I think you will be shocked - the banks have to prove 2 things:

 

they are an authorised body under that act

the salesman was authorised by the bank to sell them.

 

Thats all they have to prove. Full stop.

 

These products are virtually unregulated from 2005 - due diligence, expalnation etc etc - not a single one of these has to be covered.

 

Its a commercial deal , the onus is entirely on you to decide if its suitable or not.

 

The second point above is important - your relationship manager is unlikely to be authorised - normally they put you on the phone to someone from Barcap who actually does the deal, this is recorded.

 

Sorry to be negative, I'm genuinely on your side, but I have yet to hear of a single genuine case of a bank either being ruled against by the FSA, or by a court - I have seen several legal companies taking more money off people with promises of redress, and I'd love to hear of a success, but generally the way out is by negotiation, and this will have a confidentiality clause somewhere, hence none of the posters who have done deals talk about it anymore!

 

More than happy to be proved wrong!

 

A2G

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"Investigating your complaint

Your complaint will be investigated by a senior officer of the

Bank who is not directly the subject matter of the complaint.

In order to reach a fair conclusion we will review the relevant

information available to us.

We will endeavour to complete our investigation and reach

a conclusion as soon as is possible. The length of time this

will take will be determined by the complexity of the complaint

and the extent of the investigation required. In any event we

will report to you on progress as outlined below:"

 

This is taken from BARCLAYS CAPITAL CUSTOMER COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE, yet our complaint is been handled by the BarCap employee that sold us this product, this can't be right, can it?

 

PokerPete

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Pete

 

Depends where in the complaint system you are, if its right at the beginning then its going to be a fishing expedition, they want to know if you have the basis for a mis-sale (almost certainly not), if they dont have anything to worry about then its time for them to get the calculators out and work out a 'restructure'.....see my previous comments as to who really benefits.

 

The next person up the chain of complaints will be their boss, who is of course impartial.....

 

Forget complaining, its a waste of time, you need to approach this as a negotiation - albeit you are at a disadvantage as you are already tied into a deal.

 

Good luck

 

A2G

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Hi All

Prior to 2007, when Barclays started pushing this product on to SMB's, who was this product sold too and why did they decide to push this to the SMB's. The banks had to know that interest rates would fall through the fall before they did, that is why they tied up so many SMB's to this deal so they wouldn't lose

 

Pete

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Ok,

 

Prior to 2005, this particular type of over-the-counter derivative deal was only available to a specific list of investment professionals - the banks would get creamed by regulators if they traded with anyone else - the list is very specific and 'normal' businesses were not included.

 

This is covered by the FSMA ACT (2001).

 

In 2005 the dear old chancellor (remember him? anyone suffering from these deals should curse the man) decided to completely remove the restrictions on sale - the only proviso being that it is a commercial transaction ie a private person cannot take a rate swap.

 

Even this protection was really for the banks benefit - in a commercial deal both parties are equal in either knowledge or the ability to obtain knowledge, so mis-selling doesnt apply, however, in a trade with a private individual the bank would be at a disadvantage as the private individual, when they found they had been ripped off, could rightly say they could not be expected to have the same level of knowledge and would have to be compensated.

 

The new regs were in the FSMA Act 2005.

 

I tend to disagree that the banks knew rates would plummet - what has happened though is that some of them (Barclays in the main, but others as well) have found themselves holding some great deals and have profited beyond belief - its the success of these deals that got Mr.Diamond his job, but also got Barclays Capital known as Barclays Casino.

 

A truly dreadful product.

 

Regards.

A2G

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

I believe I was mis-sold a similar product from RBS. I am trying to negotiate with the bank now. I asked for a fixed rate loan but got a rate swap instead. I only realised when the extra payments started going out of my account.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi

Hope somebody can answer a question for me. I have two £500k rate swaps as detailed in an earlier post. I have just noticed in my rate swap confirmation (which is the only paperwork I have received!) that it states

"In the event of the cancellation or expiration of the facility Agreement such cancellation or expiration will constitute an Additional Termination event under this Agreement with the Counterparty.

For the purpose of this Additional Termination Event the sole Affected Party shall be Counterparty and "Affected Transactions" shall mean this Transaction

What does this mean? Barclays have given me new loans rather than extending the facility so does this mean that I can terminate at no extra cost or does it mean as I suspect that Barclays have further stitched me in that I cannot get out of it but when interest rates rise above my swap they can get out of it?

thanks for your help

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Hi MadMountainman

 

I am no expert. I just went on this site to let it be known there are lots of us out there with simailar problems about the way these rate swaps etc were sold. I have sought legal advice and am going to the FSO. I will post again if I get any useful information.

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Just heard from Barclays, seems that I do not have a hedge product after all, basically whilst interest rates are below my swap rate, I pay them. When interest rates rise above my rate they have the right to cancel the product rather than pay me!!!!

Surely Panorama should be doing a special on this?

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Hi All

 

Does anyone want to protest outside the Royal Courts of Justice or Houses of Parliament? I am so outraged at how my bank (RBS) has treated me regarding this rate swap loan. Send me a message and I will arrange it.

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I think that we tick all 4 boxes that you described:

 

No meeting: all communication with BarCap by e-mail or telephone

No explanation of risk: No risk warning notice, no ISDA Master Agreement sent, encouraged to believe that product advantageous in low interest rate scenario

No explanation of breakage cost: I was forced to break contract by Barclays when I sold the property; I had no understanding of potential scale of cost

No due diligence: Barcap did not assess the suitability of the product for my situation

 

I'd be interested to join forces with other similar parties to take action against Barclays.

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