hfc/restons V sleepingdog

[sleepingdog]

Hi everyone,

Have had loads of charges added to my loan account by HFC .Have not paid anything towards account for last 6 months so that they would take court action as I believe that a Judge would see that most of the charges have been wrongly applied. Now get a letter from their in house DCA (debt litigation and recovery services) stating Please note that the current amount to settle your acccount is £???? ,however we will waive £???.We have agreed to accept £??? at X amount in Dec, Jan and Feb in order to close your account.

The Questions I have are that if I paid the amounts requested would that be the end of it or could HFC or a DCA come after the rest at a later date? and is the closing of the account only with DLRS or as they are acting on behalf of HFC it would close the account with HFC?

For your info HFC have a enforceable CCA which contains within it a list of charges applicable for defaults and late payments that I signed.

One other question ,if I accepted and paid amounts and HFC closed account would I still be able to complain to HFC, FSA and anyone else about the incorrect running of the account.

sorry if post is too long. Sleepindog

[fuzzybobble]

Ok, first thing is to post a copy odf the CCA they sent you. (remove personal details first.)

 

Just in case someone can pick up on something that makes the CCA uneforceable.

 

It it proves to be enforceable then.....

 

Next thing is to add up all the charges. And ask for them back / throw it into dispute, so they can't take any legal action and buy you some time.

 

I had an account with HFC and they are well known for unenforceable agreements, so it's best to check and make sure 100% that it is, before going any further with it.

[Pinky69]

If you are going for a Full and Final settlement in 3 installments, which is what this is, make sure you have in writing that it is Full and Final settlement, that on completion the debt will be marked "settled" on your credit record and that after settlement they will not pass your personal information to any other DCA for any purpose, including the collection of further payment. Until you get this in writing, don't come to any arrangement - they can never be trusted. If they agree with payment under these terms, pay the last installments under Full and Final using a third party. That way you have a witness that the payments were made in accordance with the Full and Final agreement.

[sleepingdog]

Thank you both for answering.

I,m very cautious as they made the same offer 2 months ago but in the letter mentioned 'short settlement' and when I phoned them up asking if it would show as settled on CRA was told that it would be short settlement and when I questioned things further they very quickly passed the account back to HFC who started to add even more charges.

[lookinforinfo]

Usually, if a company has a legally enforceable agreement they wouldn't be offering a settlement figure-they would be off to Court to get a CCJ followed by a Charging Order etc etc.

Just because you have signed theri agreement which allows them to apply charges doesn't mean that they can charge you. The banks are going through the Court at the moment on this very point.

You are right to be cautious with settlements. Make sure that you are covered from every angle, including getting defaults removed and no more added after as well as the outstanding debt not to be passed on to any DCA ever. The most likely though is that their executed agreement is iffy so do not come to any agreement with them until you are sure that they do have an enforceable agreement.

Edited December 30, 2008 by lookinforinfo

[fuzzybobble]

Usually, if a company has a legally enforceable agreement they wouldn't be offering a settlement figure-they would be off to Court to get a CCJ followed by a Charging Order etc etc

.

 

This is true. I had an offer last year for a £3000 discount off an alledged debt with Northern Crock. I was new to checking CCA's at that time, so when they offered such a huge discount I was a bit suspicious, so sent a CCA request. Sure enough when the agreement came back it didn't have the pescribed terms and the T&C's weren't the correct ones. So I wrote back and told them to take their offer and threats and told them to stick them where the sun don't shine. That was a over a year ago and I've heard nothing since.

 

But then Northern Crock have other things to worry about these days.

[sleepingdog]

again thank you for such informitive replies , I would like to post the agreement on this site for someone to look at and will as soon as I have opened a photobucket account. I think that the reason for settlement figure is that I have told them on numerous times that I would welcome court as most of the charges have been wrongly applied and I have a lot of evidence including written evidence from a branch manager of one of their groups bank.

[sleepingdog]

Court papers have dropped on my doormat from restons regarding a HFC account. Account around 4 years old and agreement probably OK. Paid debt ontime for around 2 1/2 years then problems started when DD returned unpaid and I began to pay via payment book. Lots of charges ( late payment fees at £15 & default fees at £50 each). All defaults wrong ,most late payment charges wrongly applied, told HFC and DLS ( in house DCA) so many times that I now welcome court case to show Judge just how unjust HFC is.

POC the claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the defendant under a contract dated on or about xx-xx-xxxx in the sum of £xxx. The figures are made up of collection charge 16% and the remainder is around 70% charges and interest on the charges and only around 14% actual debt ( less then £100 by my calculations). I have sent SAR to HFC and CPR to restons ,about to send acknowledgement to court.

Will keep caggers updated and ask for help in defence nearer time.

sleepingdog

[Stressed150]

Good luck...xx

[sleepingdog]

As I suspected , Restons not yet replied to CPR request. More to show the Judge I guess. Will be submitting defence soon, I have been to county court many times before but not in small claims as I guess this one will be in. Can anyone explain the difference please.

sleepingdog

[cashins]

but not in small claims as I guess this one will be in.

 

Very informal, usually in a small office somewhere.

 

Other major difference is they can't try and wack you with a huge bill for costs.

 

David

[sleepingdog]

Thanks cashins , will it be myself ,Judge and their solicitor ?

sleepingdog

[cashins]

Thanks cashins , will it be myself ,Judge and their solicitor ?

 

 

Yep.

 

Are you submitting a holding defense, (I assume their POC had sod all with it).

 

David

 

PS You seem to know what you are about with this, so I assume you have checked out the DN and have had a look round other Restons threads to see what they get up to.

[diddydicky]

did you receive a "letter before action" from them prior to receiving th court summons?

[sleepingdog]

Hi cashins and diddydicky, I will check to see if I got letter before action, I think I did. As for defaults I have received 6 or 7 in the last 18 months all incorrect (amounts and no time for service ) and I have been charged £50 on some of them. Awaiting SAR to find out how many times HFC have done this to me and how many times they have charged £15 late payment fees wrongly.

sleepingdog

[sleepingdog]

restons have responded to my CPR and provided the agreement which as i guessed is OK , about to start defence regarding charges, defaults, and interest on charges and defaults as well collection charge. The agreement mentions all these charges but I believe them to be unlawful and most have been wrongly applied to my account..

sleepingdog

[supasnooper]

Moving to Legal issues........

[sleepingdog]

Hi , Just noticed that I have been defaulted again but this time after the account has been terminated.

sleepingdog

[sleepingdog]

thank you supasnooper , I'm sure you can see the battle is about to commence ,and I don't take prisoners lol

sleepingdog

[sleepingdog]

Before I start my defence am I right in thinking that I am able to reclaim unfair charges even if they are shown on agreement i e default charges of £50 and late payment charges of £15. As my first line of defence is unfair charges followed by incorrect application of charges and wrongly worded defaults .

sleepingdog

[supasnooper]

Hi SD,

 

I think the Default Notice that cashins has mentioned is one that is issued under section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Do you have the document ?

 

If so, please can you post up the details i.e the date of the DN and the date given to rectify.

[I've got no money]

Before I start my defence am I right in thinking that I am able to reclaim unfair charges even if they are shown on agreement i e default charges of £50 and late payment charges of £15. As my first line of defence is unfair charges followed by incorrect application of charges and wrongly worded defaults .

sleepingdog

 

I have a suspicion that the DN is going to be invalid - if it has default charges on it - that will cause them a problerm.

 

The other issue is that of default charges generally - they are likely to be unlawful - either as penalties at common law or unfair contract terms under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

 

I think that we should be able to do a bit more detailed defence than the bog standard holding defence. Yes you may be able to counterclaim for charges BUT there is a court fee payable on a counterclaim - however you can seek to set off the charges against the claim without a court fee being payable. Can I ask if they wiped out all the charges would you owe them anything?

 

Can I ask when did you receive the claim form - when does the defence need to be in by.

 

Can I also ask which CPR letter did you send and can you post a copy please.

[I've got no money]

Very informal, usually in a small office somewhere.

 

Other major difference is they can't try and wack you with a huge bill for costs.

 

David

 

The other problems are that you don't have the benefit of CPR 31 and often it appears that the quality of decision making is not as good as in the fast track or multi track.

 

That said if we plead a defence which alleges Penalty clauses and unfair contract terms its' not likely to be appropriate for the SCT anyway

[robcag]

The other problems are that you don't have the benefit of CPR 31 and often it appears that the quality of decision making is not as good as in the fast track or multi track.

 

That said if we plead a defence which alleges Penalty clauses and unfair contract terms its' not likely to be appropriate for the SCT anyway

 

ISTR that in one of the threads by either x20-(CPR 31.14) or pt2537-(CPR31.16) it was stated that before the case was actually allocated to a track then you could use the relevant CPR 31.xx request.

 

So if the claim has not yet actually been allocated to the small-claims track then this option may be available. After all, even some lower value claims might get allocated to fast track if they are not straight forward (i.e. more complex).

 

Cheers

Rob

[I've got no money]

ISTR that in one of the threads by either x20-(CPR 31.14) or pt2537-(CPR31.16) it was stated that before the case was actually allocated to a track then you could use the relevant CPR 31.xx request.

 

Rob

 

I'd agree that CPR 31.14 applies up to the point of allocation (although some DJ's don't agree - I've had a DJ in Sheffield refuse me an Order on a CPR 31.14 application telling me that it was only appropriate post allocation and that I should have made a Part 18 Request) however the full scope of CPR 31 is only engaged after allocation. The process is that once a case is allocated to track you then (in fast track/multi track cases) have the formal process of disclosure under CPR 31, together with the ongoing duty to disclose - neither of which apply to the SCT

 

What happens with many caggers is that they do a CPR 31.14 request in a small claim - the claim gets allocated to track and the CPR 31.14 request never gets answered - which is why its' better, IMHO, to get the case in the fast track.

 

Unless the claim goes to the fast track any CPR 31.14 application would have to be concluded BEFORE Allocation - which I have to say can be challenging

 

CPR 31.16 is a different issue as the application is concluded BEFORE the substantive claim is even issued

Edited July 20, 2009 by I've got no money