keefyboy -v - LloydsTSB

[keefyboy]

I sent a recorded delivery letter on 26th January 2009 to Lloyds TSB asking them to supply me with a true copy of the Credit Agreement relating to my card under the CCA rules.

 

Today I received a letter back from their Collections Dept stating " Should you be in Financial Difficulties, I have enclosed a form on which you can give us your financial details and an offer of Payment. If we accept your offer your account if open, will be closed."

 

Well obviously this is not the Agreement of the Credit Card or anything like it.

 

What do I do now please (I'm sorry if you think I may be a little stupid, but due to all the medications I have to take, I suffer with short term memory loss, and unless I write things down I get very confused with it all).

 

1/ Am I correct in thinking that the Statutory Time limit is 12 days for this matter ? Is that 12 days or is it 12 Working days please ?

 

2/ What do I do next please ? (I have looked but have just got totally lost and confused).

 

3/ I also sent 2 requirements to Capital One for both of our Credit Cards, as if it is now 12 days then their time limit has expired and they have not responded to my requests for the aggreements, so what do I do about this please.

 

I am doing this on my own because I let a company deal with my first claim, it is a year now since we started, we won the court case in November 2008 and the credit card company (BarclayCard,) kept my money that should have been refunded to me because the account has been closed since last April 2008. I have now written to them demanding full payment plus interest @ 3% per month and £12 for every letter I have to write to them, I will play them at their own game, and I am prepared to fight it in court for the interest and charges. They have even told the solicitors that they paid the money to them by BACs or Electronic Transfer, which turned out to be a lie, and I have got to the end of my tether and my patience has come to an end, so I am trying it on my own as I have to lose 25% plus VAT when I get my money to the company.

 

So can you guys please help me through all this please.

[silverfox1961]

 

Today I received a letter back from their Collections Dept stating " Should you be in Financial Difficulties, I have enclosed a form on which you can give us your financial details and an offer of Payment. If we accept your offer your account if open, will be closed."

 

 

 

Don't give them anything. You may be in financial difficulties but at this time they don't have a right to your details.

IF a valid CCA turns up then you may need to negotiate with them and an I/E form may come in useful but not essential.

 

fox

[keefyboy]

We have already got an agreement with them as we are using a Debt management company that the court suggested we do back in early 2008.

That's what I could not understand when they sent me the letter through, as I had not asked to make any more reduced payments or an offer, I used one of the template letters for the True copy of the Credit Agreement.

I think someone didn't read the letter properly at their end.

[keefyboy]

And Now Page 2.......

 

 

 

I am even more confused with them now :confused:

 

What do you suggest I do next... pleeeeeeeezzzz

[silverfox1961]

... or has my insanity come early...

 

 

Need I say more :D

 

You've asked for your CCA and they're treating it as a complaint???

 

I'm sorry but your insanity has passed on to me too.

 

Regards Dark. It was quite inconsiderate of him to post but as a newbie, I replied to him. I think everybody should read the rules before posting.

I've had it quite a lot on my threads too.

The thing that gets me is when someone who is desperate for help and pops a question on the end of a completely different topic but I'm too soft to tell peeps to bog off and start their own thread.

[keefyboy]

You should have heard what I said when I first saw it.... it was not pretty I can tell you... and the BBC would definitely have sacked me, back dated I think...

 

Dark was on here shortly after I posted my displeasure at him, but disappeared quick..

 

So any suggestions, I am canceling the monthly payments to them on Monday (it's paid via the D.M.C. and they don't work weekends !!)

 

How do I know if they have actioned the letter, as there anyway of checking at all... ?? I can't wait to see what they try when they realise that they have screwed up big time....

[silverfox1961]

All I can think of is to write back to LTSB and spell it out, in syllables of two or less, what you asked for.

As soon as your payment stops, expect the collections department to swing into gear.

 

On another side note, the DMC you mention. Is it one you have to pay or is it Payplan or CCCS?. If it's a paid for one then the usul advice is to drop them and go with the free ones.

 

fox

[keefyboy]

This is a letter I received from Lloyds/TSB this morning

 

 

 

Now we know that they have defaulted on the request for a True Copy of The Executed Agreement, I have stopped paying them this month and I expect a letter from their collections department demanding payment, now when they do eventually reply with the demand, is there a letter that I have to send to them saying that their agreement is unenforceable because of their failure to comply with the CCA 1974 or is there anything else to tell them ?

 

Should I reply to this letter informing them that they have defaulted and therefore the agreement is unenforcable ?

 

what can anyone suggest please.. ?

Edited March 18, 2009 by keefyboy
personal info taken off

[silverfox1961]

As far as I can see, they haven't responded to your "complaint"

I would hold off firing anything back until they run out of time to answer your queries as it's still 7 weeks away.

If they dont reply at all then you can complian to the FOS without further recourse to LTSB.

If the response you get (if at all) is a final response then you can go straight to the FOS.

 

hope your well

 

fox

[keefyboy]

On saturday morning I got a letter (well statement) ) from LloydsTSB they have asked me for 2 months payment, they have realised (well the computer has) that I have not paid them since January ( I make it 3 months payments I haven't made a payment) and they are asking for a whole £10, (I will have to starve for at least a fortnight to pay this amount), but I am not going to pay them, because they have not answered my request from January or the one I sent them in February, I can not beleive that they can so blatently ignore the law.

 

I will sit on the fence and play ignorant and see what they say to that..... or another complaint to the FOS... mmmmm I wonder :lol:

[keefyboy]

Later on today I am going to post the reply from Lloyds/TSB that I got this morning. It is worded in a way that is over my head I'm afraid. Once again they have not sent me a True Copy of the original signed agreement, but I will let you see, I am afraid that it is a long reply so I will post the letter reply on one page then each of the next bits I will post on other seperate posts.

 

This will not happen until tonight though as I am not feeling the greatest at the mo, but I am soldering on. I will beat the Bu**ers.

[keefyboy]

Here is the letter part of the reply I got from Lloyds/TSB today

 

Please read it and wait for me to get the rest up before you blow it away, because it's a little above my head I fink..

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry guys I nearly missed a page

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2009 by keefyboy

[keefyboy]

Part 2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry it's long winded guys

 

 

But just to show how good they are they even sent me copy of my own statement for this month, and I'm fuming... the cheeky so and so's have reduce my credit limit...... well is this what this world is coming to...?

 

 

 

 

I dont know whether to post the next batch of sheets, it is headed up as Credit Card Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

It is another 7 pages printed out, reading through it, to me it just appears to be an up to date conditions sheets, so if anyone needs to read this aswell I will put onto here, post haste.

 

So please see if you can explain it to me in simple terms what this all means.

 

:confused:

Edited May 29, 2009 by keefyboy

[silverfox1961]

Morning.

 

Can you go back and remove your details please.

 

Now, what was I saying about obfuscation!

 

What they are saying is that they can send you is a copy, as allowed under the rules. That's fine it itself but if they tried to take it to court, they would have to provide the original agreement. The rest of it is just bluster.

 

I'm asuming in the other details they have sent you is a copy of your original agreement. They say they have sent it. Does it contain the right terms on the page or does it refer to those terms on another page? If they have sent you a reconstructed copy of your agreement when they have said they have sent you your original agreement, then they are trying to confuse you.

 

It would be better if you could post up the other pages you got.

 

fox

[keefyboy]

I finally have scanned them all so have a read please. I will do 3 pages first then 3 1/2 on the second entry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keefyboy]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and that is the final bit of paper they have sent me....

[silverfox1961]

Well as far as I can see, they have sent you the terms and conditions, not the agreement.

 

Where is the space for you to sign? where is the space for them so sign?

 

There has to be a signature box even if it's blank

[Mightyacorn]

Why don't you send a copy of the first batch, particularly the letter where they explain their interpretation of CCA requests, to the FOS. I know it will take a while for it to come back to you, but ask them what their thoughts are on LloydsTSB's interpretations. If you do it now it will save time later, and it will be one step closer to solution.

[keefyboy]

This is a thread that was previously posted with another CC case.

Keefyboy

[exchange]

Hi keefyboy, Subbing to your new thread as I was subbed to your old one. I've got 5 accounts in dispute and have been following your progress as you are way ahead of me.

I have ignored disputing a Lloyds TSB card account so far as it is a fixed rate which I can cope with and as I bank with them as well I didn't want more hassle from that angle.

Will be following what happens as I may find it useful in future though!

Exchange

[keefyboy]

Good afternoon all

here is a draft letter I want to send to LloydsTSB as they have now sent me a Default notice, even after they have received Account In Dispute letter. So can you all have a butchers at it and give me yer worst news please...

 

LloydsTSB Collections centre

Charlton Place

Charlton Road

Andover

Hampshire

SP10 1RE

Account in Dispute.

27th June 2009

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

Account No:

 

 

I thank for your letter dated 26th May 2009, the contents which have been noted.

 

 

On the 17th June 2009 you sent to me by post a default notice, under section 77(6) of the consumer credit act you are NOT entitled to this as this account is still in dispute as you have failed on 3 seperate occasions to try to resolve it to a satisfactory conclusion.

************************

On 26th January 2009, I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 12th February 2009.

 

 

The document that you were obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

 

Your reply to this letter was a letter sent to me dated 30th January 2009, which was not received by me until 13th February 2009 this was a Financial Difficulties Form, not the documents required to be returned under the conditions of the request.

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data. You did not respond to this item, but you have failed to stop processing my data which is a breach of the Data Protection Act, which I will be taking up with the Information Commisioners Office.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

You had 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint and you failed to do this also.

 

 

You also failed to reply to this letter within 14 days allowed, you just sent me a copy of my monthly statement.

 

On 26th May 2009 you sent to me a copy of your latest Terms & conditions (7 Pages ) and a copy of your Credit Card conditions (7 Pages)

and a photocopy of my monthly statement dated 02 May 2009. These are NOT the details and documents required under the CCA request.

 

I am very disappointed that you have not supplied me with the documents as required by law under the CCA law, and I have withdrawn my authority to continue payments until this matter is resolved.

 

 

This account remains in Dispute and you can NOT serve a Default Notice under these conditions. I therefore require written notice (within 7 working days), that this has been stopped and no further action is taken, including entries with a Credit Reference Agency, on the account until the dispute is settled.

 

 

As you have failed to supply me with a true copy of the signed agreement, then the fee payable (£1) which is for the reason of supplying me with the document, should be returned to me immediately

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

****************

Edited June 28, 2009 by keefyboy

[keefyboy]

Hi Exchange and welcome to my thread, I don't mind you or anyone following my threads, I try to keep them up to date, but sometimes my health (or lack of it ) gets me to a stage of where can't do a lot of things and siting at the pc for a long period of time is one of them. But I plod on, like many others on here. And I'm ready to take on more when I got capone and LloydsTsb sorted out.

 

If you are interested, read my thread about disabled parking space.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/special-needs-disability-etc/179801-disabled-parking-bay.html

Edited June 28, 2009 by keefyboy
Incorrect link modified

[car2403]

The letter looks fine to me

[keefyboy]

Many thanks Car, I will send it recorded delivery on monday.

[keefyboy]

Letter above printed ready for sending 6/7/09 via recorded delivery

 

SAR Letter printed and ready for postal order for £10 to be sent monday 6/7/09 by recorded delivery