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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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MBNA/Optima Court action


MisterV
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because no one has posted on it for the last 5115 days.

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Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

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Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

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Hi to all,

 

Have taken great heart from reading the threads regarding the dreaded MBNA and realise just how important the help and support here is to have any chance of success.

 

I have decided to act and have sent MBNA a CCA request.

 

Like others i will need undoubtedly seek help and guidance and hopefully at some point i can also offer some help and support myself.

Will keep you up to date with developments.

 

MisterV

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Hello MisterV

 

Welcome to the family!

 

I am not really in a position myself yet to offer any solid advice. I am a bit of a novice at all this too and rely on all our learned friends on here to guide me.

 

Having said that, I can offer support which is just as valuable when the going gets tough. So keep us all posted with regards to your progress and Good Luck!

 

Moon

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  • 1 month later...

Hi,

 

Have heard nothing from MBNA and the 12 day deadline has passed. Do i have to send them another letter or now let the further 30 day deadline pass. From reading threads i understand they are in default and i can stop paying?

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HI mrv

the 30 days no longer applies so they are now in default. Not much you can do. You could send them an account in dispute letter if you wish butthe general opinion is that they know they are in default so why should you tell them.

I'm hoping you'll say you sent the CCA request recorded delivery, checked on the post office website that they got it and printed off a receipt of when it was delivered.

 

fox

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Hi,

 

Have heard nothing from MBNA and the 12 day deadline has passed. Do i have to send them another letter or now let the further 30 day deadline pass. From reading threads i understand they are in default and i can stop paying?

 

Sending them well-drafted letters is rather a waste of time - it all goes miles above their heads.

 

The only thing they understand is when you stop paying them.

 

Be aware that their threat-o-gram machine will spit out stupid letters/postcards/pink pigs and they will:

A) trash your credit file

B) Phone you constantly

C) Get other pond-life to chase you for money (Look out for RMA; Debt Clear Recoveries and maybe Restons Solicitors)

 

At the moment the best thing you can do is NOTHING - if and when they send something purporting to be an enforceable Credit Agreement post it up for us to pick apart. Once you know whether they have an enforceable agreement you may then be in the driving seat.

 

If they have sent nothing within the 12+2 days then the agreement is unenforceable until they comply.

 

DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM ON THE PHONE - EVER!

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Hi Steve

 

At the foot of an earlier post you wrote....

Nationwide

- Prelim sent 27/02/07

- MCOL filed 01/04/07

SETTLED IN FULL!!

Woolwich

- Prelim sent 30/04/07

- Offered 90% - 08/06/07 accepted

MBNA

- Prelim sent 27/02/07

- CCA request sent 13/03/07

- CCA reply (illegible + no T&Cs)

- DCA sent packing

- Restons now trying

Citicard

- Prelim sent 27/02/07

- CCA request sent 05/04/07

- VERY interesting reply 23/04/07!

No contract & not enforcing!

- passed to DCA - f**ked off at the high port!

Egg

- Prelim sent 29/02/08

- 3 letters - full offer 22/03/08 - accepted

SETTLED IN FULL!!

(All green, rep, scaley, clicky thingies gratefully received!)

 

 

Could you expand on "settled in Full" or "offerd 90%"

 

I m slightly confused as there is some talk of people not only getting their debt written off but in some cases they have been refunded monies paid.

Many Thanks

 

Carl

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Nationwide - Bank charges reclaim

Woolwich - ditto

Egg - credit charges refund - they closed my account (1 of 160,000) so I hit 'em where it hurts!

MBNA and Citicard - both defaulted on S78 requests so they do not get anything at present (they both bought my account from elsewhere but didn't get the paperwork (silly them!)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

 

After MBNA missing their 12 + 2 day deadline, i received a letter on 6th December. Please could i get some advice.

 

Seems to me like an application form and set of terms and conditions.

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0001-1.jpg

 

Rear of above:

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0002-1.jpg

 

 

 

Next four links are the copy of the terms and conditions:

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0003-1.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0004-1.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0005-1.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0006-1.jpg

 

Thanks

 

MisterV

 

Hello,

 

I have 2 MBNA accounts (yes i know how stupid can one person be) and am seeking CCA for both. They are in separate threads and i am grateful for all your help so far.

 

Sent a letter requesting a copy of the CCA. Received the following within the 12 day deadline. Could anyone help please and tell me where i stand with the following.

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0001-2.jpg

 

Rear of above:

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0002-2.jpg

 

Terms and conditions:

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0003-2.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0004-2.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0005-2.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0006-2.jpg

 

Thanks everyone.

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Hi MisterV- was this credit card taken out in 1999?

If so, they have sent you the wrong terms and conditions

- Default charges are £12

- they were nowhere near this in 1999.

 

Also on your first link that you have signed (the application) are the prescribed terms on the back of your application?

 

Can you remember how you applied for the card

- was it through a paper/ mag and could these prescribed terms have been on the back of it?

 

I ask cos my application they sent me would have had the weather report from 1999 on the back:eek: and no way did it have the prescribed terms on.

 

If they can be linked as coming from the same document then this could be enforceable.

 

If they are not then IMHO it is unenforceable as the prescribed terms are not within the signatory document

- It doesn't say on the application 'terms and conditions' or 'related financial information' overleaf does it?

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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Hi fedup

 

Thanks for the fast response, you are right the card was taken out in 1999.

I cant remember exactly how i made the application. Is this critical in whether i have acase or not?

 

The second link shows what was on the back of the signed application, which says Financial and Related conditions. Does that make sense?

 

Appreciate your help/

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Well it seems to have all of the prescribed terms and the front and back of the document appear to be from the same time - a rarity for MBNA. The Ts & Cs are the current ones though, so I'm not sure how much difference this makes.

 

You've left a number of details on the first page - account numbers etc. - might be best to cover these up.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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Hi

 

As per Fred B's comments, I bet the T's & C's are their current ones and do not relate to your 'agreement'.

 

Of course you know by now that you are, in the first two scanned copies that you have attached, looking at an application form. An application is just that, and doesn't mean that there is an agreement.

 

So.... two quick q's for you:

 

 

  1. When were the card(s) taken out?
  2. Are there any dates on the header or footer of the T's & C's that may have been chopped off when you scanned?

The date in which you took this out will tell us a lot. The older the date, the more unlikely (in my opinion) they have anything to hold you to.

 

Thanks, Vex

If my advice or input has helped, by all means tip my scales

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You have to be a bit careful because an application form can still be enforceable if it contains the prescribed terms. This one looks as if it does, but there's often some glaring error with MBNA stuff, especially from that far back, so hang on in there because something might crop up.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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Hi,

 

The application form was filled out in October 1997.

 

There is no date, as such on the terms and conditions,

however if you look there is a number printed on the bottom left LA-10-97-161-N, does this represents a date?,

in this case - October 1997.

The date of my application is October 1997.

Surely this isnt a coincidence?

 

What can be classed as a glaring error Fred?

 

Thing is ive come this far and as with a lot of people at some point you have to make a calculated decision as to whether you have a case for a CCA not being enforceable and sit tight and wait, or, you have to make a payment and assume the CCA is correct and in their favour.

 

Your comments as ever much appreciated.

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Advice please,

 

MBNA missed the 12 + 2 day deadline but i have since received the documents that are posted above. I am still unsure what my next step is. Do I assume that because they missed the deadline they are at fault and the account is in dispute or do i reply to the information they have sent?

 

Im unclear as to whether the application form and terms and conditions are classed as a CCA.

 

Thanks

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Hi there.

May i ask whether you took out ppi with norwich union back in 1999 which was their underwriters at this time as i really need a copy of this as they have changed to st andrews ppi since then and they are trying to get out of paying ppi on my illness.

would be so gratefull if you have.

many thanks tony pepper

[email protected]

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Hi MisterV it doesn't matter that they went past the deadline- even if they produced an agreement 2 years down the line they could start collecting on it. It all comes down to whether it is enforceable. IMO this looks dodgy- the signatory page is wonky and slanted to the side yet the financial related conditions are perfectly straight. It's like one has been photocopied onto the back of the other. An agreement would be enforceable if these two were part of the same document but IMO they aren't. See what other more knowledgable people have to say about this though, please don't take my word for it being pasted onto the application.:)

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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Thanks for that SB, makes interesting reading.

 

So i should go for a SAR request?

 

Do i keep paying them? They sent the above information within the 12+2 day deadline but im not sure what to do next? Am i right in thinking i can only stop paying if the information falls outside of this deadline?

 

Thanks

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I stopped paying when they didn't reply to the CCA - but would have stopped when they sent what I consider to be an application form that isn't enforceable.

 

The choice is yours. As soon as you stop paying they'll get real persistent with phone calls and letters- and you'll get late payment markers on your credit file. I'm led to believe they'll issue a default after three missed payments, which will damage your credit file pretty badly.

 

The argument goes that if they don't have an enforceable CCA then they aren't entitled to default you; although they take little notice of this and default you anyway, you should be on pretty strong ground to have it removed.

 

Having said that, what I write is my understanding of how these things happen. There are a lot of people on here with much more experience than me, so read lots and make up your own mind. I'm hoping I'm right as this is the course of action I'm following.

 

I sincerely hope this helps you:)

 

Sorry, forgot to add- I'd send an SAR if you're stopping payments and going to war with them, just to see what they've got.

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Thanks SB,

 

I think i have reached a real turning point here whether to challenge the legality of the CCA or not. After careful consideration i have decided to write to MBNA and question my application form but am a bit unsure which road to go down.

 

I read on your thread that you sent a letter questioning the legality of your CCA/Application form. You are a couple of steps ahead of me but i think we are following similar paths. So my question is :

 

Send a letter questioning the CCA? or

Request a SAR?

 

I think it is fairly critical i get the next move right.

 

Your comments appreciated.

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  • 4 weeks later...

HI,

 

looks similar to mine, which i'm disputing on the basis that the copy they've sent is illegible..

 

but, could be wrong and someone please correct me if i'm am..

 

Front seems just a copy of an application form, the title is lacking the words "credit card agreement" so thats not strictly correct.

 

There's nothing connecting the front and the rear...no notice that terms are overleaf etc. so you can't be sure that they were ever overleaf..

 

the act requires that the prescribed terms are within the "4 corners of the agreement" ... in my opinion the fact that they are not between the title and the sig box the agreement fails in this respect.

 

If the agreement was filled in by an agent (as mine was) and the prescribed terms were on the back there is nothing to draw your attention to them on the front and it is therefore entirelky possible that you may never have been aware of them...

 

Also the code numbers on the bottom of the page are different... by no means conclusive but does not give any comfort that it was ever part of the same doc..

 

otherwise .. looks like it's been properley excercised, and the prescribed terms look to me to be sufficient,,. so if they've got the original.. and this looks to be a good copy, and they can convince a judge that the prescribed terms were part of the document and thast the error in the title does not matter... then you could be on a sticky wicket..

 

IMHO the other t&c's don't matter... so long as they can provide a copy of what was in force ast the time they're ok..

 

 

FOTN

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