Welcome ---- Help Please

[gavin2121]

Hi all,

 

Ok long story.

 

My wife and i have a loan with Welcome finance. We took it out back in November 2006 as an extension to an already arranged double glazing loan in order to wipe out a few smaller debts such as cards etc.

 

Anyway, back in September last year we received a call from one of welcomes little helpers explaining that we had missed a payment some months back (due to Woolwich & Barclay's merge).. we didn't argue and paid. I happened to mention that we only had 2yrs remaining and we were lucky not to have received any form of blemish on our credit file.

 

Welcome then advised us that we had in fact a further 7 years of loan to complete... after much arguing, it also emerged that the loan was secured on our shared ownership property (50/50). I couldn't find the loan agreement at first so left them to it.

 

Once found, we realised it was true (as far as the paperwork reads). I immediately wrote a letter of complaint insisting that they mis-sold us the loan and explained that i wanted them to revise the agreement and adjust the payments and that we would be making no further payments until the agreement issues were resolved. I also advised them that i would no longer discuss the account over the phone or accept charges for calls apparently made whilst we were all out at work etc etc

 

The Loan:

We thought - £12,000 loan (unsecured as we didn't think we could use a shared ownership house as security) payments were £280 (ish) per month over 5 years = £17,000.

We Had - £ 12,000 Secured £280 x 120 (10yrs) = £34,000:eek:

 

Their initial reply to my complaint was that we've signed the agreements bla bla bla. Shortly after their letter i received a call, very helpful, listened to my complaint and claimed they would revise the agreement and come back to me.... never happened... and this continued for 6 months despite me sending letters asking for replies in writing only!!.

 

Long and short.... they have failed to reply to all bar 1 of my letters and now i have received a 14 day notice that they intend to apply for an attachment of earnings (I've been made redundant in the past 4 weeks) or claim on the security i.e. the house. once received i contacted CCCS who advised me to wait and go to court???

 

I have recently sent them a CCA request (recorded) that defaults in 5 days time. I thought that this would solve my problems... but it turns out that even if they produce the CCA on day 21.... i still have a debt??? so it seems that the CCA is just a delay tactic??

 

I have a copy of the agreement and it turns out i do owe them the money over 10yrs secured.

 

WHAT CAN I DO??? Declare Bankrupt?? There's no money in our 50% share of the house....

Edited June 18, 2009 by gavin2121
mistakes made

[enamae]

1) Can you post a copy of the agreement up for people to check?. Remove all personal/identifying details first.

 

2) Did you have PPI cover &

 

3) When did you stop making payments.

 

 

enamae

[gavin2121]

Hi enamae,

 

Will be scanning the docs Agreemment, 14day Default Notice etc in a few hours

 

No PPI..

 

We stopped making payments in November 2008 as per our initial complaint in November 08.

[42man]

Do you still have a copy of the default notice and the termination notice ?

[postggj]

Found Your Thread Gavin

 

Check Your Agreement Again

 

Welcome Not Flogging Insurance , That Will Be A First

 

Might Be Under

 

Life Cover Etc

 

Anything For Comission Is Welcomes Motto

[andie_303]

I believe you cannot secure against shared ownership properties (apart from your mortgage) without the other parties agreement i.e. if 50% is owned by yourselves and 50% the local authority they cannot secure without the LA's consent.

 

Have you checked the land registry?

[andie_303]

also gavin CCA is 12+2 days not 21 so as per your other thread they need to provide it today as you sent on 18th.

 

They cannot enforce the agreement until they provide it to you, if they provide you with a copy they can then pursue it again but not until they do so.

[andie_303]

Just checked and loans cannot be secured on shared properties - oh well bad luck Welcome!!

[sillygirl1]

They cannot do an attachment of earnings without having first been to court - they are misleading you with their alleged powers there - once it has gone to court you can claim against them and they will be the sorry ones.

 

I too believe that without the consent of your housing association their claim to the property is very much reduced and the judge will be asking them why they didn't check that in the first place - we can help with the wording for that part.

[gavin2121]

Just checked and loans cannot be secured on shared properties - oh well bad luck Welcome!!

 

 

Are you sure??? i've just googled "shared ownership secured loans" and there seems to be a few companies offering secured loans:confused:

[andie_303]

not without both permissions and as your 50% would more than likely have no equity as your mortgage will have taken your full 50% they can't levy against the 50% the LA or other owner has.

[andie_303]

have you checked the land registry to see if they have filed this?

[gavin2121]

Hi all...

 

Ok all docs now scanned, details removed and ready for you masters of law and order to show me the light at the end of the tunnel.....8-)

 

GET TO WORK

 

Couple of things I've found and/or noticed....

 

1st.. I found a Legal Charge document that i now know to be the "security" document... couple of things with this is that a, there are no details in the top 2 boxes i.e. date of charge and customer No.... b, where it asks for Property Charged it has basic info... i.e 5 George street (not my address) but no town or postcode to clarify the address or house.

 

2nd... Land Registry has no charges against our house. I called the land registry office to verify this.

Ageement.pdf

Default Notice & Letter.pdf

Legal Charge.pdf

[gavin2121]

Oh... in addition, i have asked our housing association about secured loans on the property.

 

They claim that they are not required to give permission on loan applications etc.

[42man]

I couldn't open the DN, it is 'damaged'.....might be a good idea to use www.photobucket.com (free) and there is a tutorial here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html

[gavin2121]

How about these??.. not having much luck with photobucket???

 

https://share.acrobat.com/adc/document.do?docid=cf5ece9c-b286-4b9b-b22c-460d7693339e = Agreement

 

https://share.acrobat.com/adc/document.do?docid=b6d704e9-ae71-463f-9f00-153ba2168661 = Default Notice

 

https://share.acrobat.com/adc/document.do?docid=84a2e66b-053d-4367-9b9b-f3746ee2a221 = Legal Charge

[The wife]

Hi Gavin, let me just say I know that branch of welcome very well...very flexible with the truth in there and lets not go into my opinion of the manager....

 

In other threads I have read the DN and your one like many others does not state when the 14 days is from and this has caused much amusement to many of the more knowledgeable caggers...hopefully one of them can come along and check out the DN and set your mind at ease. (incidently I could open the PDF but not the acrobat)

[brassed-off-2]

Gavin

 

Do not alert Welscum to anything regarding the charge!! Assuming you are under english land reg and not scottish? they both work to different sets of rules!

I am sure i have read elsewhere that they can apply the charge (assuming it is legal in the first place) whenever they want..i may stand corrected on this!

 

b-o-2

Edited June 18, 2009 by brassed-off-2
missed a bit

[gavin2121]

Thanks Wife... i did see that in other threads so am quite please my DN turned out the same....

[gavin2121]

Gavin

 

Do not alert Welscum to anything regarding the charge!! Assuming you are under english land reg and not scottish? they both work to different sets of rules! I am sure i have read elsewhere that they can apply the charge whenever they want..i may stand corrected on this!

 

b-o-2

 

 

Thanks for the reply,

 

Could we proceed to sell the house under their noses... would they find out?? i.e no more security??

[42man]

Maybe somebody can correct me but I was led to believe they weren't allowed to put in (14 days) in a default notice... and they had to state an actual date ??

[42man]

Do you still have the envelope the DN was sent in ? Have they terminated the agreement too ? Is there a date on the termination notice ?

[gavin2121]

i don't have the envelope it came in.... i don't have a termination letter. All i have is what i've posted... and from what i've read i don't think i'll get much more lol

[42man]

SCHEDULE 2

FORM OF DEFAULT NOTICE BEFORE A CREDITOR OR OWNER CAN BECOME ENTITLED, BY REASON OF ANY BREACH BY THE

DEBTOR OR HIRER OF A REGULATED AGREEEMENT, TO TERMINATE THE AGREEMENT, DEMAND EARLIER PAYMENT OF ANY

SUM, RECOVER POSSESSION OF ANY GOODS OR LAND, TREAT ANY RIGHT CONFERRED ON THE DEBTOR OR HIRER BY THE

AGREEMENT AS TERMINATED, RESTRICTED OR DEFERRED OR ENFORCE ANY SECURITY

Regulation 2(2)

Details of agreement

 

1

A description of the agreement sufficient to identify it.

 

 

Parties to agreement

2

(1) The name and a postal address of the creditor or owner.

(2) The name and postal address of the debtor or hirer.

 

 

Details of breach of agreement and action required to remedy, or pay compensation for, the breach

3

A specification of:--

(a) the provision of the agreement alleged to have been breached; and

(b) the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement, specifying clearly the matters complained of; and either

© if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date, being a date [not less than

fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which that action is to be taken; or

(d) if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach and

the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which it is to be paid.

[42man]

Hmmm if they haven't terminated your agreement, then it could leave them open to issue another default notice......but Welcome are usually quick to terminate....