HSBC being Awkward

[skeeks]

Hello everyone

 

I am having problems with HSBC at the moment - due to dire changes in our circumstances OH & I have been advised to concentrate on paying our priority debts each month since April. We have sent pro'rata payment proposal letters along with a statement of our incomins/outgoings & unsecured debts to each of our creditors - some of which have been accepted so far & we've gone ahead and made the payments to all of them in the meantime to show willing.

 

I have an HSBC credit card, overdraft and personal loan.

 

HBSC are being really difficult with the credit card account (no reply from loan or overdraft) saying that the proposal is unacceptable. I replied using the follow-on template for such an eventuality. Rec'd reply yesterday stating that they are proceeding with normal collection procedures DCAs etc.

 

If I make a CCA & PPI request on loan and c.c. will this make matters worse - although how I can't see...? Also would a SAR cover both of these eventualities? What kind of timescale am I looking at in needing to make these requests? I would be hoping in the case of PPI to make a hardship claim and believe we would meet the criteria from what I've read here.

 

The PPI was definitely mis-sold as I was working as a temp with erratic hours at the time c.c was granted & despite numerous requests over the phone to cancel the PPI on the credit card over the years was advised that it could not be cancelled (as recently as 2007). Looking back at old financial statements re: a previous HSBC loan taken out & cleared, I discovered had the loan insurance loaded as a single payment from my current account while in that same job.

 

Sorry to be so long-winded - I'd really appreciate any help out there please...

 

Thank you

[johnnymitch]

Hi skeeks , welcome to the forum

 

I would say that your best approach at the moment is to send a SAR for everything - it's your right under the Data Protection Act and it will help you to see where you are at . It also puts your account 'In Dispute' which means they can't (or aren't supposed to ) pass your account to a third party i.e. DCA etc.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/110--data-protection-act-1998-subject-access-request-

 

However , if you get a letter from a 'DCA' called Metropolitan Collection Services , - don't panic - it's only another branch of HSBC using different headed paper ...

 

When you send the SAR specify which documents you specifically want , as well as anything else they hold on you (or they'll use it as an excuse to send bits and pieces ) .

 

They have 40 days to produce this information under the DPA , so it should give you breathing space to regroup ......

 

Also there is a great PPI forum on this site with a lot of knowledgeable people on it - probably best to address your PPI queries to them ...... before and after you get your SAR stuff.......

 

oops sorry - had a break in transmission ....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/

 

By all means come back and ask any timer you have a query , someone will answer , and we're user-friendly ........ :grin:

Edited June 17, 2009 by johnnymitch

[skeeks]

Hi Johnnymitch, thanks for your reply.

 

In terms of specifying the SAR documents I'll need - can I simply ask for every shred of info they hold for me accross all 3 accounts (loan, cc & overdraft) or this that too ambiguous and will they take advantage (as if!).

 

Apologies for needing to be spoonfed - I'm new to all this and don't want to mess it up...

 

Many thanks

S

[johnnymitch]

That's OK skeets - we've all been where you are at some time.....

 

I would list the important ones you need and follow by saying - 'and anything else you hold on me ..... '

 

You could adapt a bit of this one (for DCAs) :

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca.html

 

If you read the instructions which come with the SAR link I gave you earlier it should give you a good idea of what to ask for .......

[johnnymitch]

Oh , and a SAR covers everything and every account - all for the one tenner .......

[skeeks]

Lovely - so your saying that SAR will have the same function as a CCA reuqest or rather will let me see if they have one and therefore whether or not to request one - am I correct?

[johnnymitch]

Spot on - if it doesn't come with the SAR - send a CCA to specifically ask for it ..... or , if you want it quicker (a CCA gives them 12+2 days to produce whereas a SAR gives them 40)

 

Have a look at my post on laura 58 s thread ||:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/204849-confused-bank-charges.html

[skeeks]

Hi JohnnyMitch

 

Just read the other post - thanks for pointing me to it. Does the SAR put the account into dispute from the time it's received by them or when the 40 days are up?

 

S

[johnnymitch]

Technically , I think the 'In Dispute' starts from when you send them a Prelim(inary) letter asking for your money back - because until you get your sar stuff you can't say there is evidence to dispute anything.....

[skeeks]

Understand what you're saying...

 

I thought though that in terms of evidence for unfair charges it was enough from my statements to challenge they've been unfairly overchageing me (esp. First Direct current account £25 for going pence over my OD limit - forgot to mention that one) in addition to HSBC current account.

 

Also evidence-wise, the HSBC credit card - my circumstances when I applied for the card indicates that the PPI was mis-sold... I've placed a thread in the other forum, so you needn't address that. But do you see what I'm getting at - is my impression of what constitutes evidence irrelevant until I get the SAR?

 

One other thing if I may?

 

Is there any conflict between requesting a refund of charges and at the same time doing a CCA?

 

Really appreciate your time with all this

 

S

[johnnymitch]

Understand what you're saying...

 

I thought though that in terms of evidence for unfair charges it was enough from my statements to challenge they've been unfairly overchageing me (esp. First Direct current account £25 for going pence over my OD limit - forgot to mention that one) in addition to HSBC current account.

 

If you've already got access to all the statements you need e.g. online or downloaded , then you can just list those and send off a Prelim asking for them back - that's when the 'In Dispute' begins- IMHO

 

Also evidence-wise, the HSBC credit card - my circumstances when I applied for the card indicates that the PPI was mis-sold... I've placed a thread in the other forum, so you needn't address that.

Well done !

 

But do you see what I'm getting at - is my impression of what constitutes evidence irrelevant until I get the SAR?

 

The SAR may also uncover other evidence of mismanagement of your accounts ........ which you may want to pursue ......

 

One other thing if I may?

 

Is there any conflict between requesting a refund of charges and at the same time doing a CCA?

 

Absolutely not - the CCA is for details of a Credit Agreement/Loan not refund of current account charges ........

 

Really appreciate your time with all this

 

S

 

Not a problem skeeks - you have one or two issues - therefore you need to address them separately at the moment ....... take it a step at a time - you'll get there ..... but if you've got enough evidence to start a claim for refund of charges - then go for it !

[skeeks]

Thanks Johnnymitch

 

Had to wait until end of month (payday) to put requests in. However they've sent me a letter of default dated 18th June recieved by me on the 22nd June with a deadling of the 2nd July - just 14 days. I presume that I should continue making the pro-rata payments which they've declined until I see evidence of a CCA?

 

A bit confused over the default notice & how to proceed...

 

Any advice appreciated.

[johnnymitch]

Ha! They've done it again skeeks - forgotten that the 14 days runs from a presumed delivery date of 2 working days after dispatch of the letter - so I make it that they've given you only 10 days which nullifies their default ------

 

2. Practice Direction

 

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail

 

"With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

 

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

 

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

 

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

 

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

 

3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.

 

4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

 

8 March 1985

J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

Queen's Bench Division

 

In fact in your case this makes it even more out of order skeeks- you received it on 22 June which is the second WORKING day after dispatch (there was a week-end in between ) - therefore your deadline date should have been 14 days from 22 June , which I make 6th July (the 5th being a Sunday).

 

I would write to them - tell them that because you have not received your CCA this account is In Dispute until they produce it - that because of this they may not issue a default notice, therefore they must withdraw it and confirm this in writing .

 

(I don't think I'd point out at this stage that the default notice is flawed - keep it up your sleeve for future ammunition /evidence of their incompetence )

Edited July 1, 2009 by johnnymitch

[skeeks]

Hello again

 

Unbelieveably I've spent most of July playing letter tag with HSBC about my signature - the Postal Order is looking tattered at this stage from all the 'oh yes you will/oh no we won't'...

 

They're trying to fob me off and of course have long missed the CCA request deadline - what should be my next move - a Dispute Letter?

 

Really appreciate any advice please?

[skeeks]

PS - I should say that the Postal Order is currently back with me - ought I re-send it back to them again before I can write to them stating the account is now in dispute & has been for a number of weeks?

 

[johnnymitch]

Hi skeeks - I would say that the fact that they've sent your PO back does not absolve them from having to comply with your CCA request. But , until you get the CCA or they fail to produce it .... you can't say that the account is 'In Dispute' . ... because you don't know if there's anything wrong with it .

 

I would send back the PO . with a covering letter something like :

 

CCA Call-up letter

Reference ....... (your letter of xx xxx xx)

I am disappointed that you have failed to respond to my request for a copy of my Loan agreement to which I am entitled under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79). A copy of this letter is attached for your convenience.

I have previously enclosed a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. You have returned this to me , however this does not absolve you from having to comply with the CCA request which I made earlier . It is returned to you herewith .

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days. This period has now passed ......

I am sure you also understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

Failure to respond positively will be reported to the Financial Ombudsman Service and the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Yours faithfully

 

You could add :

"PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec) "

 

 

Whilst you're waiting for a reply to this ,skeeks it might be worth your while to look at lee32uk's thread ..... because the court route might be your next mocve to get them to produce or deny the existence of the CCA .

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/188794-hsbc-cca-non-compliance.html

 

It's a big thread but has a lot of useful info in it .... but of course come back and ask if you need more help ...

[skeeks]

Hi Johnymitch

 

Thank you again for the advice. I'll send this today