robbers way help needed - vanquis card

[reorete]

hi just giving an update lol well the debt has now gone to cabot and for the last couple of months ive been trying to get the true credit agreement from them but have recieved 2 copys of the document i put on here which im told is an application with no terms and conditions. can someone look at it again for me and give an opinion. well this morning i got the same copy again from cabot enlarged lol. then a pile of documents titled vanquis cards terms and conditions seperate from the application for credit. these documents just give terms and conditions but no signature anywhere. does the terms and conditions have to be on the application for credit or is what cabot have sent me etc terms conditions seperate with no signature, is that good enough to prove i owe this debt? any help at all with this would be great xxx

[the_shadow]

hi just giving an update lol well the debt has now gone to cabot and for the last couple of months ive been trying to get the true credit agreement from them but have recieved 2 copys of the document i put on here which im told is an application with no terms and conditions. can someone look at it again for me and give an opinion. well this morning i got the same copy again from cabot enlarged lol. then a pile of documents titled vanquis cards terms and conditions seperate from the application for credit. these documents just give terms and conditions but no signature anywhere. does the terms and conditions have to be on the application for credit or is what cabot have sent me etc terms conditions seperate with no signature, is that good enough to prove i owe this debt? any help at all with this would be great xxx

 

The terms and condition are of no real consequence, what is of major importance tho is the prescribed terms and these are what must be shown to be connected to your signature, they dont have to be on the same page as the signature but they do have to be in the same document and a clear linking shown. So if one page with the prescribed terms is titled page 1 of 2 and page 2 is the page with your signature then I would say enforceable.

 

So if there is no link between the application page they have already shown you and the copy of t&c they have further sent then its not enforceable imo.

 

Take a look at this thread for more info...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html

 

S.

[rev.ian]

I would not keep pushing for them to come up with an enforceable agreement.

• The more you push the harder they will try to come up with one.
  
• The longer the account is in dispute the better.
  
• If they try to go to court with what they have sent you, then you should win.
  
• If Robinson Way had thought they could win in court with that application form, they would have started a claim.
  
• I would sit back let them think they have sent you the enforceable agreement.
  

This is only my opinion and others may advise you to push them to come up with the enforceable agreement. The problem is if they do you start paying.

[cymruambyth]

Just to say Rob Way have an interesting take on what is legal and will try for court, in what I'm hoping is a game of dare................watch this space

[vint1954]

I would not keep pushing for them to come up with an enforceable agreement.

• The more you push the harder they will try to come up with one.
  
• The longer the account is in dispute the better.
  
• If they try to go to court with what they have sent you, then you should win.
  
• If Robinson Way had thought they could win in court with that application form, they would have started a claim.
  
• I would sit back let them think they have sent you the enforceable agreement.
  

This is only my opinion and others may advise you to push them to come up with the enforceable agreement. The problem is if they do you start paying.

But in all probability, they have nothing else.

[rev.ian]

They have been threatening to take me to court with an application form for just over 2 years now.

[vint1954]

Quotes:

I refer the cases of Wilson V FCT and Wilson V Hurstanger.

 

Both these BINDING judgements hold that if a regulated agreement is missing any prescribed terms, or if the terms are misstated then the agreement is irredeemably unenforceable.

In Wilson V Hurstanger it is stated that the prescribed terms should be within the signature document and not in any other document. I believe that the document sent to me with my signature on does not contain the prescribed terms and as such is unenforceable.

 

 

 

 

Quote:

This is from Francis Bennion author of the CCA

 

"As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97. Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn't be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I'm glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody's human rights were infringed.