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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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1st credit and Lloyds TSB Platinum credit card


hunterandthehunted
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what about the cca?

 

they have sent what i asked for, albeit an edited copy "whatever that means".

 

as they have complied, i guess it is no longer in dispute or is there something else i can do...:-?

 

thanks

 

bump:sad:

regards

hunterandthehunted

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well well

 

this is standard m.o. from our friends in Reigate. if it was me i would sent you have failed letter. it puts then into a blind spin.

 

please remember that they work on a procedure so they have a letter to return to you we could all stop this however we are waiting for then to make a

mistake.

 

what they want is the money and we do not want to give then any

 

top and bottom

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

update.

 

i have had a final response from my account in dispute letter.

1st crud have sent me another copy of the cca and are stating that now my request has been fulfilled that this entitles enforcement of the debt.

 

is this true?, as it looks like the cca has been faxed to them and i have read on the forum that an original is needed in the court.

 

can someone help me with a letter please?

regards

hunterandthehunted

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Only read the last few posts and it's possible that they have indeed complied with your CCA request. However, if they have said they are taking you to court you should then ask for a unedited copy of the original under CPR rules. That way they can't escape. There is a letter about for just that but I don't have time to find it as I'm off to work.

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thanks twofoot,

 

i will have a root about

 

update.

 

i had a letter from lloyds stating that they are looking into my complaint. ( i do not aknowledge any debt letter sent ).

they have given themselves a 28 day timesacale from the 21.5.09 to respond.

 

in the meantime i sar them and am awaiting the statements.

 

i am confused though because bls are still purseing me even though i have pointed out to them that the account is in dispute.

today i have received a letter from sechiari,clark & mitchell solicitors stating that i have 7 days to pay or court preceedings will commence.

 

should i send this letter

I refer to your letter of XXXXX 2008, the content of which is noted. No debt to your client is acknowledged.

 

On (date) I made a formal request to your client pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. They have failed to comply within the statutory time limit, or at all. It should not be necessary to have to remind solicitors that the provisions of s.78(6) now apply.

 

In the circumstances, your/your clients threat of legal action would appear to be a breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection. Should you or your client bring proceedings, they will be robustly defended, and the Court's attention drawn to the above statutory breaches . Furthermore, I reserve the right to bring the conduct of your client to the Court when the issue of costs is being considered.

 

Yours faithfully

 

i have had a good look around but cannot seem to find anything.

some help needed here please

regards

hunterandthehunted

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thanks, i will mail and update accordingly

 

sorry for being thick lickthewallfatboy, but whats the point in sending another letter asking for the same info when 1st crud have already provided it to me. ( a signed copy of a cca with all the prescibed items )

 

 

have look over the cca again i cant see the total charged for credit.

 

if it was me i would look again at is my agreedment enforsable by 42man

 

lilly white,

this cca was for a loan for £5000 which is on the cca. i have had a look at the "is my agreement enforceable" and it looks like all the prescribred items are there.

 

but what i was thinking is that, if lloyds have faxed it over to 1st crud how can they have the original thus not being able to provide it in court.

 

what i am worried about now is how to respond to their latest letter which basically states that they met my request and they have invited me to respond within 14 days and the truth is, i havent got the foggiest.:confused:

regards

hunterandthehunted

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I PRESUME THAT THEY HAVE CONFIRM IN THEIR OPINION THEY HAVE SEND THE CCA

I AM ALSO GUESSING THAT THEIR IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE UNEDITED CCA.

 

 

SO SEND THIS

 

 

Address

 

Date

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I refer to your letter dated (date) in which you confirm that you are unable to comply with my formal request pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. However, despite being in default of my request, you have continued to make unlawful demands for payment contrary to s.78(6) of the CCA 1974 and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I note that the Credit Services Association, in the first paragraph of its Code, state that members must act lawfully at all times. Furthermore, under the CPUTR 2008 failing to comply with a code of conduct to which you have subscribed is unfair trading.

 

In the circumstances, I will not enter into further correspondence with you, and any further unlawful demands or contact will be viewed as harassment and reported to the appropriate enforcement agency.

 

Finally, as you have failed to comply with my request, I require you to return the £1.00 fee without delay.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

 

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I PRESUME THAT THEY HAVE CONFIRM IN THEIR OPINION THEY HAVE SEND THE CCA

I AM ALSO GUESSING THAT THEIR IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE UNEDITED CCA.

 

yes that is correct.

 

thanks for your efforts lilly white, i am still confused though because the letter you have kindly posted does'nt really suit because,

 

1/ they have not comfirmed that they unable to provide a cca, infact they have provided 3.

 

2/ they have not as yet made any formal demands for the monies since i cca them.

 

they have given me 14 days to respond to the letter stating that my request has been fulfilled as they have provided the cca and this entitles enforcement of the debt.

 

could an expert have a look at my cca again ( post 80 ) , i need to know wether the game is up for me as i don't think it will be appropiate to just ignore their last letter

regards

hunterandthehunted

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ok two things that its missing

 

1. Total Charge for Credit- this is a breach of Regulation 2 and Schedule 1 para 9 Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations 1983

 

2 Total amount payable- this is a breach of Reg 2 para 11 Consumer Credit Agremeent regs 1983

 

the agreement is therefore improperly executed and therefore an order of the court is needed to enforce the agreement or any of its terms.See s61(1) CCA and s65(1)

 

this is sufficient breach for the court to exercise its powers to lower the amount owed as a minimum, the court may say, no to an enforcement order

 

There is case law on this point to

 

Rank Xerox Finance limited -v- Hepple CCLR 1994 1

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whats the point in sending another letter asking for the same info when 1st crud have already provided it to me.

 

if they have said they are taking you to court you should then ask for a unedited copy of the original under CPR rules. That way they can't escape. There is a letter about for just that but I don't have time to find it as I'm off to work.

 

i have had a good look around but cannot seem to find anything.

some help needed here please

 

 

 

:)

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Simple

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

In respect of the credit agreement you have disclosed on the XXXXXXX 2009

 

After seeking legal advice from a Consumer Credit Law specialist i can comment as follows.

 

The agreement you disclosed is improperly executed, it is not compliant primarily with s61(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the consequences are that as it stands the agreement is unenforceable and requires an order of the court pursuant to section 65(1) CCA 1974 to be remedy this problem. you are invited to make such an application for the said order.

 

Upon such an application i will rely upon the following points

 

The agreement is a fixed sum credit agreement, the rate of interest under the agreement is fixed for the term of the loan, there are no items entering into the charge for credit which are likely to be subject to change or variation therefore the agreement requires a term stating the Total Charge for credit with or without a list of its constituent parts, the agreement does not contain this term and therefore breaches Regulation 2 and Schedule 1 Para 9 Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations 1983.

 

The agreement must as a consequence of para 9, also include a term stating the total amount payable, again this agreement does not contain such information and therefore the agreement also breaches Reg 2 and Schedule 1 para 11 Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations 1983 and therefore the agreement does not comply with the regulations made by the secretary of state under the powers given by s60(1) of the 1974 Act and accordingly the agreement doesn ot comply with the strict requirements of s61(1)(a) Consumer Credit Act nor did it comply with s61(1) © Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

These breachs are clearly prejudicial to me as on entering into the agreement i was not givne the informatiuon that the Consumer Credit Act required to be made clear, i was not aware of the true cost of borrowing.

 

I would further highlight that Lloyds TSB subscribes to the Banking Code, as a requiremento f the code, they are required to lend responsibly and they clearly have failed in their duty under the code

 

my contention is that the court should not make an enforcement order, my authority for this contention would primarily be the case of Wlaker v SPPL in the Chester High Court before HHJ Derek Halbert. however if the court were minded to make an order for enforcement my argument would fall directly upon Rank Xerox Finance Limited vs Hepple CCLR 1994 1 and in this case the court taking into account a single breach of schedule 1 Agrement Regs reduced the amount of debt from £5000 to £500 to compensate the debtor for the prejudice caused

 

in view of this and in view of the fact you require an order from the court to enforce this agreement as clearly set out within the act, and the House of Lords in Wilson and First County Trust 2003 UKHL 40, i would invite your proposals to settle my dispute. i would also advise that i am informed that , i am able to apply to the court to consider this matter pursuant to section 142(1) CCA 1974 if no suitable agreement can be met.

 

however i trust this will not be necessary

 

I look forward to your settlement proposals

 

regards

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absolutely brilliant pt, just what the doctor ordered.

i will get this letter mailed to them closer to the 14 days they have given me to respond. ( trying to slow things down a bit ).

 

thanks to every one who has bumped this thread along. i do appreciate

all your comments and efforts even though my responses may seem a

little unappreciative sometimes.

 

oh and lilly white,; pick one with 4 legs:lol::lol::lol:

 

take care

 

til next time

hunterandthehunted

 

ok, i have sent the letter to the in house soliciters ( post 16 ).

 

i have also received another of the standard responses from lloyds stating

that they are looking into my complaint.

 

i can only assume that this is for the account in dispute letter i sent on may 11th. i sent one to lloyds and one to BLS, which

could explain the two seperate responses.

 

i have received no reply from my SAR request, but i guess its early days yet...

regards

hunterandthehunted

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  • 3 weeks later...

hi all,

 

received a strange letter this morning from 1st crud in response to the latest letter i sent them.

it basically says that they have reffered my letter back to lloyds tsb for their comments.

 

if they are the ownners of the debt, which they have informed me they are then how can they get

lloyds tsb involved again.

Edited by hunterandthehunted
mistakes

regards

hunterandthehunted

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thats interesting if you did not recived a noa from oc how do you know that they own the allged debt.

 

with respect if i wrote to you would you pay me, i need the money

 

 

have you check this with oc

 

I am still looking for the winner of the Derby

 

kind regards lilly

 

 

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of course i would;)

 

will wait and see what lloyds tsb have to say. if they have sold the debt to 1st crud i really cant see why they would be interested.

 

mind you they supplied 1st crud with the disputed CCA.

 

as regards to the derby winner, you have got 12 months to find it as the last one seems to have got away. maybe the st ledger in setember:rolleyes:

regards

hunterandthehunted

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