Welcome picks another victim

[steven4064]

To add to what WBDFS said, part 31 is the main part of the CPR that you can use.

 

Mainly it refers to documents mentioned in a statement of case and gives any party the right to inspect documents mentioned in the case of another party.

 

To use part 31 to get documents otherwise, you have to use part 31.16. To do this you have to make an application to the court (using a form N244 available from Her Majesty's Courts Service - Home) which costs £75. If the application is successful, the court will issue an order instructing the other party to let you inspect the document(s) you applied to see.

 

I have jsut done this and got such an order.

[rob20042513]

Hey very shrewd!!!!!!!

 

Let me play devils advocate here:

 

1. Welscum cannot produce the agreement, what happens?

 

2. Welscum do produce the agreement, then what happens?

 

3. Mine and Wanabedebtfreesoon little secret as well to add to the mix

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hey very shrewd!!!!!!!

 

Let me play devils advocate here:

 

1. Welscum cannot produce the agreement, what happens?

Not an awful lot really, if there's no agreement they can't take you to court to enforce it. So they get to spit and hiss but there's not a lot else they can do

 

2. Welscum do produce the agreement, then what happens?

You know the agreement is fatally flawed so then you share it with everbody on cag and the above answer also applies. Or you can take them to court on a number of issues eg. unfair relationship, unfair terms, unlawful recission of contract and the list goes on....:grin:

 

3. Mine and Wanabedebtfreesoon little secret as well to add to the mix

Add the answers to 1. and 2. together and you have an excellent case

 

Well if they think they can screw up and treat people like dirt then we all have to join together to fight back for the rights to which we are lawfully entitled.

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 is not there to just look pretty, it's to protect the consumer too

[rob20042513]

Your like an angel in disguise, brilliant i hope justice will be done

 

 

letter goes off tomorrow, also what do i do with the lewis group who will still send letters?

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Your like an angel in disguise, brilliant i hope justice will be done

 

 

letter goes off tomorrow, also what do i do with the lewis group who will still send letters?

Simple answer-IGNORE THEM!!! Make sure you send by recorded delivery every time and keep proof of postage and a copy of letter for yourself

[rob20042513]

ok will do,

 

also wbdfs the private message i sent you how powerful was that information?

 

Will that also be detrimental to the case?

 

thanks, sorry for the 400 questions

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

ok will do,

 

also wbdfs the private message i sent you how powerful was that information?

 

Will that also be detrimental to the case?

 

thanks, sorry for the 400 questions

It's great too!! Only further compounds your case It's a common welcome practice but they will deny it no end! The fact is though, if it gets that far where you'll need to produce that information the burden of proof will be on them to prove their version rather than you prove your version :grin:

 

You know, if they didn't wanna find themselves in situations like this then they should've acted properly and within the law in the first place shouldn't they???!!

[rob20042513]

I think it boils down to hankensens model where their customer concern is 0 and closing the sale is what it takes, the problem is when they screw it right up, there are so many niave people out there including myself where we are not educated enough to know our legal rights!!!!!!! Welcome thrive on this and suck the life out of peopls's finances who dont know any different.

 

With this forum welcome have become exposed hence their near demise, without caggers like yourself with such determination this would never have happended. Life is to short as it is, and I will not allow them to bully me or dictate what I can do when they decided to break the law, i trusted this company and they have breached that in such a disregard for their customers, i really hope this does not happen to anyone else no matter how tight your finances are, save, save and save again, dont rely on these vultures.

 

Will update you when the next move takes place, any other feedback from anyone then please feel free to post replies, i hope my situation is helping others to and please listen to wanabedebtfreesoon she has been a god send i promise you, she has calmed me down and got me to see the bigger picture where a few days ago i was beside myself!!!!!!!!!!!! Its not worth the stress. Thanks:D:D

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

You're more than welcome We've all been where you are and all needed a helping hand too. CAG is always a team effort

[rob20042513]

well letter posted this morning recorded delivery 21 days and counting!!!!

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

well letter posted this morning recorded delivery 21 days and counting!!!!

Excellent!! Well done

The very best of luck to you, let us know when/if you get a response

[rob20042513]

Ok Letter Recieved This Morning From Welcome?

 

Dear Xxxxxxxxx

 

Thank You For Your Letter Recieved Xxx Requesting Information Held By Welcome Financial Services Ltd.

 

In Order For Us To Carry Out Your Request Please Can You Issue The Relevant Fee:

 

1) £1.00 Will Entitle You A Statement Of Account And Loan Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act.

 

2) £10.00 For A Full Data Protection Request, Where We Provide All Information Held By Welcome Financial Services Ltd.

 

Cheques Should Be Made Payable To Welcome Financial Services Ltd.

 

Please Note That We Cannot Process Your Request Until We Have Recieved The Relevant Fee.

 

 

I Have Done This Before Are They Confused???

 

Help, I Sent The Letter In Previous Post For Cpr 31.6 Request???

[steven4064]

CPR 31.6 deals with standard disclosure - that is disclosure that is part of the court process. You cannot ask for information under 31.6. Did you mean 31.16? If so, you have to make an application to the court using a N244 form and pay £75, you can't jut write to them.

 

Without a court case, or the promise of one, the only two options open to you are the two Welcome have given.

 

If you have already done one of these and Welcome have not responded, you shold write and tell them that. Both have remedies for non-compliance.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

I would say that you have 2 options really; you can either write back to them and say that your request for info was made under CPR 31.16 whereby you are permitted to request documents for inspection before starting proceedings and therefore no fee is payable.

A fee is only payable if it was a request pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

It's true they absolutely don't have to give the agreement just by you writing and asking for it under CPR 31.16, but it seems fair that you give them the opportunity to voluntarily hand it over before going in all guns blazing with an order for disclosure from the court.

 

The second option would be to send the follow up letter which says, "I still haven't received the copy I asked for and if you don't give it I'll just have to apply for it via an N244 from court."

 

Have you had chance to look through this thread, it's really useful??

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[Indebted1971]

Reading this thread with interest. I have just got my SAR and they too have only provided me with copies of my two agreements with them with a link at the top of the page like a printout of a scanned document from their database.

 

Is it recommended that all requests for CCA are made using the CPR 31.16 now rather than the standard request or just particular scenerios?

[steven4064]

What WBDFS said may work but they only have to take notice of a part 31.16 request if you get a court order. In fact PAr 31.16 says, "This rule applies where an application is made to the court under any Act for disclosure before proceedings have started..."

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

What WBDFS said may work but they only have to take notice of a part 31.16 request if you get a court order. In fact PAr 31.16 says, "This rule applies where an application is made to the court under any Act for disclosure before proceedings have started..."

Hello Steven4064, I've read Pt2537's thread on this topic and it goes through the whole process step by step from writing an initial letter to obtaining the order, it's fab!

There is also a part which suggests that if you don't write to them prior to applying for the order you may find yourself liable for the other sides costs, should the order not be granted by the court because of a failure to adhere to pre action protocaol on the applicant's part!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use-98.html

[monkeys head]

hi guys and girls, could any body possibly help me. i recieved my subject access request today as advised by you guys. only to find that they have sent me copies and the date as been alltered on my copy of the agreement, and on the lagal charge mine and my partners signature have clearley been forged. what should i do HELP.

[steven4064]

WBDFS

 

I have just been through the process and have a part 31.16 court order - more soon.

 

There is no pre-action protocol specific to part 31.16 but you do have to show you have behaved reasonably.

[rob20042513]

slightly confused guys,

 

so do I:

 

a) send them a £1.00 and get my agreement (but i have done this before)

b) send them £10 for full subject access request

c) send them a letter stating they have not fulfiled ny cpr 31.16 request?

 

Just confused because I already have the copy of the agreement which is incorrect and welcome have admitted this, but I dont have a copy of the orginal agreement from when it was last re-booked as the one I have is from their database print off???

 

please advise, thanks

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

In my opinion I would say c) for now. You need to notify them that no fee is payable as this is NOT a Consumer Credit Act request, but in the interests of being reasonable you could enclose a SAE so they won't be out of pocket

 

The fee of £1 is ONLY payable if you had made a request under Sec77/78 of CCA 1974.

 

In order for them to be forced to hand over the said documents you have to file a N244 at court and the court will issue an order to produce. All you are effectively doing now is saying, "Look I'm trying to be fair with you here, I want a copy of the signed original documents because I believe there is something on them that is dubious, and I'm giving you the option to give it voluntarily. If you don't want to give it I'll have no option but to apply for an order from the court whereby you will be forced to give it, so don't say I didn't tell you in advance of my intentions."

 

The court will be more inclined to grant the order if you can show that you've exhausted all other possibilities and this is a last resort because they're refusing to co-operate.

[rob20042513]

ok,

 

Can you help me with a letter to resend please wbdfs,

 

thanks, not very good at expressing things on letters

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

ok,

 

Can you help me with a letter to resend please wbdfs,

 

thanks, not very good at expressing things on letters

Yes no prob, I'll get back to you later on this evening

[rob20042513]

your a superstar,

 

thank you so much, sorry I feel useless,

 

the support is excellent, so lets try again with them

 

will log on tonight:)

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hello Rob, I've had a go at a letter for you. Have a read thru and see how you feel Anything I say is not written in stone so please feel free to change anything you like or take further advice!! Cos end of day stuff, this is your case and you have to play it in a way that best suits you

 

Welcome Financial Services Ltd

Compliance Department

Mere Way

Ruddington

Nottingham

NG11 6NZ

Date:

FORMAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

CPR part 31.16

 

Account number: XXXXXXXX

Dear Sirs

On XXXXX I wrote to your organisation requesting that you supply me a copy of the agreement for my account. My request extended to the full agreement which bore my signature. Additionally I require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker.

 

I enclose a copy of the letter which was sent for your information.

 

I am now in receipt of the response issued by Welcome Finance dated XXXXX, requesting a fee in order to fulfil my request. I am very puzzled by this as my request for information was made in accordance with CPR 31.16 whereby no fee is payable. I did try to make it clear in my original letter stating that this was NOT a request made under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The £1 fee would only be payable if I had made the request pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. My request was made pursuant to Civil Procedure Rule 31.16 with the intention of giving Welcome Finance an opportunity to provide the requested documents so as to avoid the need for an application to the Court for an Order to Produce; and therefore no fee was required.

 

For the avoidance of doubt I still require copies of the documents originally requested, or confirmation that you no longer have them, by XXXXXX(21 days from date of this letter).

 

To avoid any financial issue that may be involved in Welcome Finance fulfilling my request I have enclosed a stamped, self addressed envelope for your convenience.

 

 

I hope this has cleared this matter up and I look forward to receiving your prompt response.

 

Yours Rob20042513