ACS:Law copyright file sharing claims, Gallant Macmillan - and probably some others along the way...

[andydd]

I was refering to the account holder and yes your right it could be anyone but you would have to prove that someone else did it, same as they would have to prove it was proberly you who did it, but thats the thing they only have to convince the civil court judge 51% that it probably was you who did it and you have lost, if it was criminal cases they would have been stopped along time ago. I dont even live at the address where the alleged infringment took place the bill is just in my name, but the solicitor still turned round and said if you get a judge that is supportive of the music/games/porn industry methods (bit like the one allowing the NPOs in the first place) you would have a hard job convincing him/her you did not do it.

 

ACS know full well there evidence would not stand up in court without something to back it up, But has my solicitor said what actual evidence do we have to prove we did not, the alleged offence happened to long ago for our hards drive to be of any use to anyone (for evidence or defence).

 

Thats the main reason ACS wait months before they issue the claims, they can base there whole case on probability if you did the offence or not, so they know people are not going to push this matter for fear you might get the wrong judge on the wrong day and it goes horribly wrong for you, not matter if your guilty or not, the same has he wont push court action because it could go against him.

 

Do they actually pinpoint a specific date and time ?. I thought I read somewhere that someone proved they they were not there at that particular time, although thinking about it, if you just left your PC on and your P2P client running I cant see how it would help even if you could prove you wernt there, it seems the cards are (unfairly) stacked against the people being accused in this case, and ACS are taking advantage of it, and there actually appears on the surface very little we can do about it.

 

Andy

[car2403]

Hey - I apologise first of all because youve probably heard this a lot...theres 68 pages here and Ive no idea where to even start looking for the answer.

 

My father first had a letter about this is June (he cant even turn a computer on...)....we sent off one of your templates (which they conveniently did not recognise or choose to recognise at first), so we had to send them another by recorded mail.

 

Dads had another letter today saying what other people have said - "its a template so what your saying is rubbish" - which surely is complete trash??

 

Anyway you know where Im going with this - what are our next steps, do we reply again (are there any template letters available for this?), do we just ignore it?

 

I dont get how they can prove, even 51%, that you downloaded the file if there is no physical evidence, otherwise its all conjecture surely? Especially when my dad cant even use MS Word!

 

BTW - I dont know if theres already one but a general guidance document on word/pdf would be very handy for people.

 

regards

Mike

 

I believe post #1003 still shows the current situation;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/198192-acs-law-post2411367.html

[mikep22]

I believe post #1003 still shows the current situation;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/198192-acs-law-post2411367.html

 

OK thank you - so our best bet is to now ignore them?

[patrickq1]

I HAVE TWO LAPTOPS SITTING HERE WITH ABSOLUTE PROOF THAT THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN ANY PART OF THESE SO CALLED ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS EVEN THOUGH OUR WIFI WAS NOT SECURE AT THE TIME OF THE DOWNLOADS,WE CAN SAFELY SAY WE DID NOT DO THE DOWNLOADS AND THEIR IS ABSOLUTELY NOT A SINGLE TRACE OF THE ALLEGED PACKETS OR GUID NUMBERS...THE LAPTOPS HAVE BEEN IN USE BEFEORE THE GIVEN DATE THE LAPTOPS HAVE NOT BEEN REFORMATED AS THE DATES ON ALL PROGRAMS WILL SHOW NO DATA HAS BEEN ERRASED FROM THIS LAPTOP

SO ACS I EAGERLY AWAIT THE GIVEN DATE FOR A COURT HEARING ALL COST AND CHARGES SHALL BE ENTERED AGAINST YOU IN A COUNTER CLAIM OUR CHARGES SHALL CONSIST OF A EXPERT IN THE FEILD OF DEEP PACKET INSPECTION AND COMPUTOR FORENSICS YOU SHALL BE HELD LIABLE FOR ALL COSTS

SO WE ADVISE ACS LAW TO CEASE WITH ALL ATTEMPTS OF PROCURING MONIES

 

 

 

I was refering to the account holder and yes your right it could be anyone but you would have to prove that someone else did it, same as they would have to prove it was proberly you who did it, but thats the thing they only have to convince the civil court judge 51% that it probably was you who did it and you have lost, if it was criminal cases they would have been stopped along time ago. I dont even live at the address where the alleged infringment took place the bill is just in my name, but the solicitor still turned round and said if you get a judge that is supportive of the music/games/porn industry methods (bit like the one allowing the NPOs in the first place) you would have a hard job convincing him/her you did not do it.

 

ACS know full well there evidence would not stand up in court without something to back it up, But has my solicitor said what actual evidence do we have to prove we did not, the alleged offence happened to long ago for our hards drive to be of any use to anyone (for evidence or defence).

 

Thats the main reason ACS wait months before they issue the claims, they can base there whole case on probability if you did the offence or not, so they know people are not going to push this matter for fear you might get the wrong judge on the wrong day and it goes horribly wrong for you, not matter if your guilty or not, the same has he wont push court action because it could go against him.

[andydd]

I HAVE TWO LAPTOPS SITTING HERE WITH ABSOLUTE PROOF THAT THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN ANY PART OF THESE SO CALLED ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS EVEN THOUGH OUR WIFI WAS NOT SECURE AT THE TIME OF THE DOWNLOADS,WE CAN SAFELY SAY WE DID NOT DO THE DOWNLOADS AND THEIR IS ABSOLUTELY NOT A SINGLE TRACE OF THE ALLEGED PACKETS OR GUID NUMBERS...THE LAPTOPS HAVE BEEN IN USE BEFEORE THE GIVEN DATE THE LAPTOPS HAVE NOT BEEN REFORMATED AS THE DATES ON ALL PROGRAMS WILL SHOW NO DATA HAS BEEN ERRASED FROM THIS LAPTOP

SO ACS I EAGERLY AWAIT THE GIVEN DATE FOR A COURT HEARING ALL COST AND CHARGES SHALL BE ENTERED AGAINST YOU IN A COUNTER CLAIM OUR CHARGES SHALL CONSIST OF A EXPERT IN THE FEILD OF DEEP PACKET INSPECTION AND COMPUTOR FORENSICS YOU SHALL BE HELD LIABLE FOR ALL COSTS

SO WE ADVISE ACS LAW TO CEASE WITH ALL ATTEMPTS OF PROCURING MONIES

 

I'd avoid all caps, people find it annoying, the fact that the alleged files are not on your laptop is irrelevant, anyone can click the file and press delete, you'll notice ACS are very clear in saying that they do not alledge that the files now or ever resided on a pc you own, as I pointed out in a previous post its quite easy to use your IP address but the actuall P2P file could be saved almost anywhere, your pc, phone, mobile HD, another pc, work pc, remote storage, etc.

 

I wouldnt go playing the 'its not on my pc card' if i were you, ACS are a step ahead of you in this respect, as mentioned above as to why there is a big gap between the allegded offence and the date they actually write to you.

 

Andy

[patrickq1]

oops lol i only realised it after posting

[patrickq1]

I wouldnt go playing the 'its not on my pc card' if i were you, ACS are a step ahead of you in this respect, as mentioned above as to why there is a big gap between the allegded offence and the date they actually write to you.

 

a deep packet inspection would reveal any annomilies of deletion and guid... so playing as you call it is not what this is about it aint a game it is the fact that an accusasion has been laid before us and we have our laptops available to a computer forensic and deep packet inspection lecturer who will perfom the duties to prove the allegded incident did not take place on these computors so i have absolutely no qualms abourt seeing this going into court i relish the thought of getting money for doing nothing what more can i say we did nt do what we are accused of so i got no problem there will be no balance of probabilities just pure facts

patrickq1

[Wintord]

With respect, Wintord, I think this is worded inaccurately, or is simply wrong.

 

You cannot prove that you didn't do something - you can't prove a negative.

 

They have to prove, on the balance of probabilities, that you did what they say you did.

 

In reply, you can make submissions to show what they've said isn't right, as your defence. In effect, you attempt to undermine their claim so badly that the Judge won't accept it.

 

What we've discussed on this thread is that there are many reasons they may be able to show something happened, but they can't prove that you did it.

 

It was worded wrong looking at it again and it was a responce to Mr Toms suggestion of taking ACS to court, You would need to remove any probabilities out of the case if you were to do so.

 

The only thing I had to do that was my hard drives, but then they would argue the alleged offence was to long ago to use these. I wish it was a simple case of taking them to court and getting a win. Alot would have already done so, if it was a simple thing to do.

 

But if you went after them with nothing but probabilities it could go massivly wrong, the same as it could for ACS if they actually decided to take you to court. There is no actual evidence either way other than probabilities at this stage, its just down to the judge on the day who he decides to side with (remember there clients have won and lost cases in other countries based on these seemingly random IP address there monitor has picked up with nothing to back it up), I know I cannot afford to put a massive amout of money in to getting ACS to court andless I was 100% going to win.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Wintord

[GTIFreak]

Hi just another post to say i am also on my 3rd letter now with a reduced claim. I have sent 2 LOD to which the claimed were templates. Just playing the waiting game...

[pridewat]

It was worded wrong looking at it again and it was a responce to Mr Toms suggestion of taking ACS to court,

 

The only thing I had to do that was my hard drives, but then they would argue the alleged offence was to long ago to use these. I wish it was a simple case of taking them to court and getting a win. Alot would have already done so, if it was a simple thing to do.

 

I know I cannot afford to put a massive amout of money in to getting ACS to court andless I was 100% going to win.

 

i appreciate mr toms suggestion, but i would concentrate more on my defense.

rather than suing ACS . in meantime if i had any more communication i woul d just send them another lod. i know its frustrating for most of us who have not done what is alleged but its waiting game. we know all of his letters are template too and so are the letters of ICO AND SRA and us lot sending template letter is in no way illegal. only think is he does not like the anwser he is getting because as most of us know his game is generating revenue out of threats and bullying a lot of innocent people.so i will not add anything other than simple denial will not engage myself in silly argument like template issue less you say at this stage the better. i will save everything else if and when he goes to court to present his so called forensic evidance

Edited October 4, 2009 by pridewat

[andydd]

I wouldnt go playing the 'its not on my pc card' if i were you, ACS are a step ahead of you in this respect, as mentioned above as to why there is a big gap between the allegded offence and the date they actually write to you.

 

a deep packet inspection would reveal any annomilies of deletion and guid... so playing as you call it is not what this is about it aint a game it is the fact that an accusasion has been laid before us and we have our laptops available to a computer forensic and deep packet inspection lecturer who will perfom the duties to prove the allegded incident did not take place on these computors so i have absolutely no qualms abourt seeing this going into court i relish the thought of getting money for doing nothing what more can i say we did nt do what we are accused of so i got no problem there will be no balance of probabilities just pure facts

patrickq1

 

What is or isnt on your laptop is irrelevant, deep packet inspection would show nothing either. ACS have no intention of going anywhere near your laptop, they are well aware that the accusations date back over a year and half in many cases and that is why that state that your ISP was used to download and make available one of their clients files.

 

What your laptop has or hasnt on it now doesnt matter, ACS could claim that you downloaded stuff using a different laptop.

 

Of course it is very unlikely that ACS would ever get involved in any detailed legal or technical arguments but as pointed out in previous posts as individuals we should be careful about contemplating court action as the threat of very large costs is a risk.

 

Andy

[patrickq1]

Of course it is very unlikely that ACS would ever get involved in any detailed legal or technical arguments but as pointed out in previous posts as individuals we should be careful about contemplating court action as the threat of very large costs is a risk.

i am afraid you are quite wrong my details on this laptop for the last four years is on here it has never left this home as records will show ...my isp has been mistakingly identified and who cares about the technical side and the expense i have a laptop that has every single peiv=ce of data unaltered from day on

[andydd]

Of course it is very unlikely that ACS would ever get involved in any detailed legal or technical arguments but as pointed out in previous posts as individuals we should be careful about contemplating court action as the threat of very large costs is a risk.

i am afraid you are quite wrong my details on this laptop for the last four years is on here it has never left this home as records will show ...my isp has been mistakingly identified and who cares about the technical side and the expense i have a laptop that has every single peiv=ce of data unaltered from day on

 

Huh ?..Unless your laptop has some kind of GPS tracker how on earth can you prove it has never left your home and anyway, whats to stop you using another laptop at home ?

 

You should go read the actual letters ACS are sending out,they are not concerned what is or isnt on your laptop, if you wish to argue against anything it should be their/Logistep's IP identifying procedure.

 

Your ISP may well have been mistakenly identified but if you were to end up in court you would need to show the court some evidence of that, simply stated it may not be enough, ACS would no doubt claim that their procedure with Logistep is robust (although that is questionable).

 

I'm all for standing up to ACS but your posts make little sense at times, unless you are very wealthy only a fool would say 'who cares about the expense', a court case against ACS could (if you were unlucky) leave you with a bill of many tens of thousands.

 

Andy

[Wintord]

ACS have never at any stage accused you of having or sharing the file (though they state they do not rule that out) what they are doing is holding the person who has there name on the bill associated with that IP address liable for the infringement. Thats why they will never take anyone to court who does not say something ACS can use, because they cannot hold you liable for something someone else did without your knowleadge (if it ever actually happened in the first place).

 

In the long run they will never take you to court, but you cannot force there hand in this, for exactly the same reasons they wont take it to court.

 

I did read abit ago that someone in germany got took to court and the judge made them and over the details of the tracking systems used and it got chucked out because it was proved the IP harvesting was inacurate, from what I could understand. It was a straight google translation of the court papers from german and not easy to follow.

[andydd]

ACS have never at any stage accused you of having or sharing the file (though they state they do not rule that out) what they are doing is holding the person who has there name on the bill associated with that IP address liable for the infringement. Thats why they will never take anyone to court who does not say something ACS can use, because they cannot hold you liable for something someone else did without your knowleadge (if it ever actually happened in the first place).

 

In the long run they will never take you to court, but you cannot force there hand in this, for exactly the same reasons they wont take it to court.

 

I did read abit ago that someone in germany got took to court and the judge made them and over the details of the tracking systems used and it got chucked out because it was proved the IP harvesting was inacurate, from what I could understand. It was a straight google translation of the court papers from german and not easy to follow.

 

Ich bin ein illegal downloader ...nicht !

[Wintord]

Ich bin ein illegal downloader ...nicht !

 

Carefull ACS might take that as an admission of guilt, they like to bend the rules a little.

[mr.ton]

If you sent a letter to ACS to say "Yes i did it", they'd be in a panic

[andydd]

Carefull ACS might take that as an admission of guilt, they like to bend the rules a little.

 

I'm ok I dont like Scooter or gay porn

[count orlok]

Ich bin ein illegal downloader ...nicht !

 

Don't you mean: Ich lud nicht urheberrechtlich geschützte Akten herunter?

[car2403]

I'm ok I dont like Scooter or gay porn

 

How can you have gay porn on a scooter? I can't imagine, but suspect it's already been tried.

 

You're such a spoilt sport, Andydd...

[count orlok]

Und ich lud keine deutschen homosexuellen Pornografiefilme herunter

[richx45]

It's all gone very quiet on here, nothing to report???

[nwotb]

got the third letter heard nothing since about two maybe three weeks now when i sent my own letter of defence to them not too bothered about this whole thing more important things in life to think about let alone worry

[cashins]

got the third letter heard nothing since about two maybe three weeks now when i sent my own letter of defence to them not too bothered about this whole thing more important things in life to think about let alone worry

 

Well, if you've told them to burger orf 3 times they are probably out of threats for the moment.

 

David

[nwotb]

they can bugger off completly as far as im concerned until they prove ME guilty and not just my ip i aint interested i have no case to answer